New to Raids

[Erdrick]

Preface: I play a 60 Protection Warrior (Armorsmith) on the Pagle server, preparing for getting into raids.

1) What would be the best way for a new player to get into raids? I have the best pre-raid damage mitigation equipment and up 190 fire resistance equipment. There are still a couple pieces of Dark Iron equipment I want to forge, though I do have other fire resistance equipment for those slots until then. As I understand it, most raids already have their own dedicated tanks, so I may have to switch to Fury spec just to get into a raid. While I do have some dps gear, I haven't rolled Need on most of it while in Protection spec, unless no one else wanted it.

2) How does loot distribution work? I've heard some guilds use a DKP system, while others reserving only specific items, MS>OS, and so on. However, I have no knowledge of how any of these work. I do run my own guild, though it's relatively small, and certainly far from having the numbers to raid entirely with our members. I'm willing to work with other, more dedicated guilds, and while I would like some amount of structure, I wouldn't want to turn it into a hardcore, full-time job, practically.

3) How do I know what talents would be desirable for raids? I know of various talent builds for raiding, but I think this would depend on the guild. Maybe one Warrior has a general talent build, but others might have specific talents that they only need 1-2 of them to have.

Thanks for your help.

[Akka]

Preface: I play a 60 Protection Warrior (Armorsmith) on the Pagle server, preparing for getting into raids.

1) What would be the best way for a new player to get into raids? I have the best pre-raid damage mitigation equipment

If you are in pre-raid BiS, it stands to reason that you played a lot of 5-man.
During this time, you should have been able to have fun with lots of people and get a lot of contacts. Among them, most have probably been playing in raiding guilds.
Normally, you should probably already have been invitated to join guilds several times if you were yourself fun to be around/competent.

In all cases, select those of said people you'd like to play with. Look up their guild. Sort through these guilds and select those which fit your view of the game. Whisp and talk with their officers/GM. Once you've found one that seems a good fit, make an apply. Profit.

This method is very reliable if you're aware of what you really look for in a game. I've always been able to join every single guild I've ever applied to, and I've nearly never been disappointed. Be it in WoW official, on private servers, in LotRO or in SWTOR, all over 15 years. It works.

[Kalterast]

I know I may sound harsh, but if you're truly new to the raiding scene, I wouldn't recommend for you to tank (at least for the first few weeks). Reason is the survability of a raid group relies way too much on the tank knowing his job (knowing the fights of the bosses, but also the trash mobs).

My friend who is a very good gamer for years started playing WoW and got really frustrated when everyone blamed him for not doing exactly what the tank was supposed to do (even though he was off tank and 95% of the time he was fine, that last 5% was noticable by the leaders and he got "demoted" to dps). You might think we're a tryhard guild, not at all. People are just impatient for a 15 years old game. Now he is fury warrior and is having alot of fun and top the dps meter.

That being said, I'm not saying it's impossible for you to tank or get applied as a tank in a guild ! Equipment is the first step and you got it down, now you want to learn everything that MC has to offer (not only bosses abilities, but trash mobs). Proving that you know your job even before entering a raid will get you invited faster.

For the loot distribution, it's really up to the raid leader standards. Some will use DKP, others will use a loot council + attendance sheet. Usually raid leader will prefer to give the gear to tanks (luckily for you) because like I said earlier, everything depends on the survability of the tanks. If a tank dies, and the second tank dies, it's most likely a wipe for the entire raid, whilst if a dps dies, it's not the end of the world, you guys can keep going on.

As for the talents, it also really depends if you're the main or off tank. The main tank usually goes Fury with a shield, and the off tank is full mitigation spec. The reason for that is the main tank wants to keep agro and you need to be able to do enough damage to do that, while the off tank make sure he won't die if anything bad happens to the main tank (not 100% sure on that one tbh).

Lastly, consumables are REALLY important for tank, either main tank or off tank. You want to get in a raid as much prepared as possible with your consumable. Always assume you're gonna wipe at some point and bring more consumables than you should. If you don't wipe, you will still have those consumables for the next week.

As a matter of fact, it costs alot to raid as a tank, more than a dps. You're the front line guy, so you will need to repair at some point (during or after the raid). And because your gear is full plate, it usually costs you more to raid than a dps warrior.

I wish you good luck in your search for a spot in raid group ! Please don't forget to watch all the guides possible out there (wowhead, icy-veins and many others).

[ymirsson]

My friend who is a very good gamer for years started playing WoW and got really frustrated when everyone blamed him for not doing exactly what the tank was supposed to do (even though he was off tank and 95% of the time he was fine, that last 5% was noticable by the leaders and he got "demoted" to dps). You might think we're a tryhard guild, not at all. People are just impatient for a 15 years old game.

Still sounds like tryhards. If you invite a new guy and cant be bothered to educate him, what does that make you?

on topic:
if you are dedicated to be a tank, find a guild and tell them beforehand. Maybe you will have to switch roles on a regular basis, maybe you find a group where a tank is missing or wants to change careers himself, maybe you have to DPS and just get the tank pieces noone else wants but you will have a start. Also, there ought to be people able to help you regarding equip, talents, skills and encounter knowledge.

[Kalterast]

Still sounds like tryhards. If you invite a new guy and cant be bothered to educate him, what does that make you?

Well we did try many time to tell him to use Shield Block more (I'm not the one who made the decision to demote him to dps lol). Like I said I'm not saying it's impossible for him to tank, only that it'd be easier to start to learn to raid from dps perspective rather than a tank.

[ymirsson]

Well we did try many time to tell him to use Shield Block more (I'm not the one who made the decision to demote him to dps lol). Like I said I'm not saying it's impossible for him to tank, only that it'd be easier to start to learn to raid from dps perspective rather than a tank.

There is as much to learn about encounters for DPS as there is for tanks. You don't need a PhD for tanking.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

Tank is a duel edge sword when trying to get into raiding. On one hand it will be more difficult because tanks tend to stick around and most guilds take care of them and you usually don't bring nearly as many as healers or DPS to a raid. The other hand if they are in need of one they are super desperate to get a hold of one. I think the smartest thing you can do is both learn to tank and DPS within that tank spec. So when you are invited if they have an MT and an OT already you can do DPS to the level a tank DPSer should be for your gear level. It will impress them a lot, trust me. Then when you end up tanking on a fight with more mobs or trash packs that require more tanks you will prove to them you can do both. You will be in the club for sure.

Also, ZG is about to come out. A really really good way to get into a guilds good grace now would be to tag along to ZGs. They are a lot more pugged by even great guilds because of a lot of resets, 20 man, and not enough tanks to go around which is great for you. If you can step into ZG you can catch up on gear quick and prove yourself when they need you the most. Know the fights in ZG. Be ready for ZG. You will be getting courted if you are in the mix.

[Erdrick]

Yeah, I certainly wouldn't expect to be the main tank. I've never touched raids in Classic, and only when obscenely overleveled in retail. I know all too well how much influence a tank has on the success of a group. It might be a good idea to dps, just to learn the encounters, and then move up to tanking, if a group would allow me.

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4) As a dps running through a dungeon, how do you avoid pulling too much threat from the tank? As a tank, one of the most difficult parts of going through dungeons was trying to maintain threat on multiple enemies. Even with an equipment setup that focused more on generating threat than mitigating damage, and having knowledge of how threat mechanics work, I often had trouble holding threat. Is it as simple as waiting a few seconds for the tank to establish threat before joining in to start attacking mobs? I'd think there's more to it than that.