Mega-Thread: 2020 United States General Election

[DarkTZeratul]

So you think it is an overreaction to say that a system which is specifically designed to, at certain times, invalidate your vote because someone you have no idea who is, that you didn't elect, decided they'd rather vote for someone else, is not a democracy?

I think it's an overreaction to grossly mischaracterize the design of the system like that.

[zealo]

So you think it is an overreaction to say that a system which is specifically designed to, at certain times, invalidate your vote because someone you have no idea who is, that you didn't elect, decided they'd rather vote for someone else, is not a democracy?

It is literally made so that some times your vote matters diddly fucking squat. In those cases you might as well just not vote. "but then another elector would go!" who fucking cares, the one I apparently said should go didn't do what I fucking told him to, so what does it matter?


But you're okay with a system where they could? I mean, let's assume that the 2016 election was 270/268 in Hillary's favour
But Hillary still lost those 5 votes, and Donald still lost 2.. That means that now Donald is the winner, despite Hillary seemingly being in the lead, not only in the popular vote but in the electoral vote too.

But that was a couple hundred years ago. Time advances.

The fact that, at any point, you could have a president that not only the majority of people didn't vote for, but that was projected to lose the EC, somehow win it all and become president is ludicrous.

Risk of faithless electors is not the problem with the electoral college, so much as that the entire system is built for overriding popular vote results to begin with.

There's little reason for why it shouldn't just be a simple percentage ranked choice vote for an office that represents every voter in the country during the term in it.

[Xeones]

So...

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...00072987893762

Why is this still happening?

[DingDongKing]

So...

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...00072987893762

Why is this still happening?

That won’t stop until he’s paid off his campaign debts. It’s the grift that keeps on giving.

[Mormolyce]

I think it's an overreaction to grossly mischaracterize the design of the system like that.

That's a pretty accurate assessment of the Electoral College.

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So the 24-hour challenge is as follows: for both the red text and the blue text above, @YUPPIE and all other Trump supporters are to find, and cite, the court case in which evidence of such has been submitted. Yeah, I'm not just looking for a random tweet or a non-reputable source. Trump says there's fraud, Trump is launching lawsuits about the fraud, therefore, Trump will provide all the evidence he has of fraud in these lawsuits.

The reason they aren't around much is that they're waiting for their propaganda websites to tell them what to think about all this. This always happens to them when there's devastating news coming out.

Unfortunately their masters haven't yet decided how hard they want to play into Trump refusing to concede. So I guess they'll just sulk indefinitely until something changes.

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So...

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...00072987893762

Why is this still happening?

LOL look at the replies.



First time I've seen a caricature that didn't undersell his gut.

[DarkTZeratul]

That's a pretty accurate assessment of the Electoral College.

It may be an accurate assessment of a flaw in the system, but it's not even remotely accurate to say it was "specifically designed to, at certain times, invalidate your vote because someone you have no idea who is, that you didn't elect, decided they'd rather vote for someone else".

I mean, to borrow a phrase from Star Wars, "every word of what you just said was wrong" (and yes, I know you weren't the one who said it). It was not designed to invalidate anyone's vote. It was not designed so that you wouldn't know who the electors are. It was not designed for you not to elect electors. And it was designed for the electors to be the ones deciding who to vote for in the first place, not you.

That the system has been thoroughly twisted by partisan politics into a gross mockery of its original design that accentuates its flaws while almost entirely eliminating the benefits it was supposed to convey is no excuse for misrepresenting its origins.

[Mormolyce]

Adding things to the Constitution is one thing.

Removing them is an altogether different thing.

Not true, both are handled by Amendments. For example the 12th Amendment changed the voting process for the VP, because the emergence of partisan politics had caused the original system to completely break down.

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It may be an accurate assessment of a flaw in the system, but it's not even remotely accurate to say it was "specifically designed to, at certain times, invalidate your vote because someone you have no idea who is, that you didn't elect, decided they'd rather vote for someone else".

I mean, to borrow a phrase from Star Wars, "every word of what you just said was wrong" (and yes, I know you weren't the one who said it). It was not designed to invalidate anyone's vote. It was not designed so that you wouldn't know who the electors are. It was not designed for you not to elect electors. And it was designed for the electors to be the ones making the choice in the first place, not you.

That the system has been thoroughly twisted by partisan politics into a gross mockery of its original design that accentuates its flaws while almost entirely eliminating the benefits it was supposed to convey is no excuse for misrepresenting its origins.

Well, it was specifically designed to allow slave states to take credit for three fifths of their slave population while denying those slaves the vote. So kind of.

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It made sense (at least a lot more) when it was written. Didn't the founding fathers even say it probably needs to be revisited every generation or so, so that it doesn't become outdated?

It didn't. It was a compromise with slavers who demanded disproportionate power in order to preserve the institution of slavery.

And the other states went along with it because getting the constitution ratified was more important to them than the lives of slaves.

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This is precisely what Beto O'Rourke said was the way to turn Texas blue. Not just purple but blue.

But the Democrats didn't listen to Beto O'Rourke, they listened to Joe Biden. And so despite predictions, Texas isn't purple.

Texas is trending more blue slowly over time - but this is not a consequence of Democrats improving their ability to appeal to it. It's simply getting more urban and less rural.

They can wait another 40 years for Texas to turn blue on its own, or they can start taking this shit a bit more seriously.

[DingDongKing]

But the Democrats didn't listen to Beto O'Rourke, they listened to Joe Biden. And so despite predictions, Texas isn't purple.

Texas is trending more blue slowly over time - but this is not a consequence of Democrats improving their ability to appeal to it. It's simply getting more urban and less rural.

They can wait another 40 years for Texas to turn blue on its own, or they can start taking this shit a bit more seriously.

I'm not some Joe Biden superfan, but you need to understand the intricacies of what you're talking about. Flipping a state is a collective effort, and in fact more down to the local state staff than an overarching Presidential campaign. You can take it in writing that even Bernie would've struggled to flip Texas. It's a long game, and even though there were certain moves being made to flip state legislatures and house seats over the last few years, Texas still has a LOT of conservative issues that need addressing before it properly starts transitioning. The ground game and congress needs to take shit seriously, for sure. But like Stacey Abrams proved with Georgia, and Cindy McCain showed with Arizona, it's more about the influence on the ground. A Presidential candidate doing ads or rallies isn't gonna change diddly. That's the last layer of the cake, not the crust, if you get my analogy.

[PrimiOne]

There's nothing Trump would not burn and no one he wouldn't sell to keep the power.

The media? All liers ( now even Fox). Don't trust them. Only trust me.
The congress? Professional liers. No truth can come from them . Only trust me.
The FBI,the CIA, the CDC,the HHS? Infiltrated by dangerous communists. Don't trust them...only trust...me.

Now, if this weren't so tragic I would point at the comedy gold that is the CIA ....repeat....the C... I....A....being a nest of radical leftists but given that he has already trashed his own executive branch, the legislative branch and the 4th power....why stop there?

Nahhh....the perfect epilogue for this low budget soap opera that has been Trump presidency is completing the full circle and now fuck up with the judicial branch. Sure , why not donnie? Spew all the bullshit you can so come the 14th of December , when no court has found any evidence of fraud, you can point your illiterate fanbase at them and say:

"Don't trust the courts.Judges appointed by democrats ( wich is mostly untrue)....only....trust....me".

And there you go. You have already burn everything you could and your work is now done : you can go cheating on golf knowing that 50 million americans have lost the trust in every single branch of the government.

Tiny thumbs up!!

[szechuan]

Yet more proof that Jon Voight is a nutjob.
He literally called the left Satan, also claimed fraud and said Trumpers should stand up and fight Greatest Fight Since the Civil War.

https://twitter.com/jonvoight/status...23889417322497

[Temp name]

I think it's an overreaction to grossly mischaracterize the design of the system like that.

But the system is designed to let that happen though. Otherwise, why even have them vote for it?

Risk of faithless electors is not the problem with the electoral college, so much as that the entire system is built for overriding popular vote results to begin with.

But that would mean that faithless electors is the problem though, no? If they weren't faithless, they'd follow the popular vote (in their state at least).

There's little reason for why it shouldn't just be a simple percentage ranked choice vote for an office that represents every voter in the country during the term in it.

Or at least percentage based in the state

[beanman12345]

Makes me happy that Trump is dropping lawsuits in PA now that the margin is outside of auto recount and growing. Not all lawsuits, 1-19 isn't a big enough loss ratio, but some at least.

Trump isn't gonna move out. We won't only see a him dragged out by security, they'll be putting all his crap out on the rose garden and having a bonfire with all his crap.

Yeah I know it doesn't work that way I'm having some fun.

[SirBeef]

*cracks knuckles*



This was spread over three tweets. Two of them were flagged.

And you know what that means.

Now I know what you're going to say. Why bother specifically calling out

@Thwart
@Ghostpanther
@lockedout
@Zeth Hawkins
@Healing Rain
@Hammerfest

and so forth and so on, when they haven't shown up recently? Well, because a completely honest, genuine poster like myself (snicker) will give them every possible opportunity to find the facts and evidence behind Trump's claims, or when necessary, to admit there are no facts or evidence behind Trump's claims.

Or to remain silent, and we all know what that means.

But let's get @YUPPIE in on this as well. He seems pretty active.

So the 24-hour challenge is as follows: for both the red text and the blue text above, @YUPPIE and all other Trump supporters are to find, and cite, the court case in which evidence of such has been submitted. Yeah, I'm not just looking for a random tweet or a non-reputable source. Trump says there's fraud, Trump is launching lawsuits about the fraud, therefore, Trump will provide all the evidence he has of fraud in these lawsuits.

Find the red example, and cite it

Find the blue example, and cite it.

Or, find that neither statement has evidence that has been entered into a court of law. I'll accept that, too. And it proves you're not a coward because you looked.

Silence, as always, means I get to answer for you ("there is no such evidence, Trump lied") and also there's the direct admission by such silence that you're a coward for not even looking for the evidence.

"But what about those posters who haven't been here? How is it safe to label them as cowards, when they're not even on the forums to OHHHHHH I get it."

Yeah. Twenty-four hours, as per usual, time stats now.

They can't which is why they are frauds and should be laughed at with every post they make.

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I did think it was kind of funny that I haven't seen much of Thwart recently.

Why would you? Conservative usually tuck their tails and hide when things get bad for them. Basically they are cowards.

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I believe he only stalks the Off Topic forums now from what I remember seeing.

Exactly. Coward. Was a big man when he was a mod and could unfairly doll out punishment, derail topics, and let conspiracy theories run rampant. But now that he lost that privilege, he vanished.

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Yet more proof that Jon Voight is a nutjob.
He literally called the left Satan, also claimed fraud and said Trumpers should stand up and fight Greatest Fight Since the Civil War.

https://twitter.com/jonvoight/status...23889417322497

We've kind of known this for about as long as we've known Trump is a piece of shit. Nearly 40-50 years.

[Dhrizzle]

The reason they aren't around much is that they're waiting for their propaganda websites to tell them what to think about all this. This always happens to them when there's devastating news coming out.

Unfortunately their masters haven't yet decided how hard they want to play into Trump refusing to concede. So I guess they'll just sulk indefinitely until something changes.

*nods* Trump supporters learned quite early on that when the president says something you have to wait for his spokesperson to come along playing "what he meant was..." and Trump's inevitable contradiction. Then someone from Fox news or Breitbart will repackage it to the most palatable form and Trump will pretend that's what he said all along, and that's when the cultists can start regurgitating.

[postman1782]

Makes me happy that Trump is dropping lawsuits in PA now that the margin is outside of auto recount and growing. Not all lawsuits, 1-19 isn't a big enough loss ratio, but some at least.

Trump isn't gonna move out. We won't only see a him dragged out by security, they'll be putting all his crap out on the rose garden and having a bonfire with all his crap.

Yeah I know it doesn't work that way I'm having some fun.

It is closer to 25 cases now that he has lost. He even stopped saying that he didn't have people watching the 680,000 or so votes, because he knows he can't prove it, even though he has said this since Pennsylvania flipped.

[Breccia]

Makes me happy that Trump is dropping lawsuits in PA now

Trump campaign retreats from key claim in Pennsylvania suit

Trump’s campaign on Sunday withdrew a central part of its lawsuit seeking to stop the certification of the election results in Pennsylvania, where Democrat Joe Biden beat Trump to capture the state and help win the White House.

Ahead of a Tuesday hearing in the case, Trump’s campaign dropped the allegation that hundreds of thousands of mail-in and absentee ballots — 682,479, to be precise — were illegally processed without its representatives watching.

The campaign’s slimmed-down lawsuit, filed in federal court on Sunday, maintains the aim of blocking Pennsylvania from certifying a victory for Biden in the state, and it maintains its claim that Democratic voters were treated more favorably than Republican voters.

That's the biggest lawsuit Trump had left, the he just dropped. It seems like, no longer having anything specific to point towards, his remaining court cases are "it's unfair because reasons" followed by screaming and stamping of feet.

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It is closer to 25 cases now that he has lost. He even stopped saying that he didn't have people watching the 680,000 or so votes, because he knows he can't prove it, even though he has said this since Pennsylvania flipped.

This point needs to be made, over and over and over.

What Trump says in public, and what Trump says under oath, are not the same.

That, alone, should be all the proof everyone needs.

"Then what's your problem?" is the quote of the election, not just for what it is alone but for why that line was said in context by a judge.

My most recent 24-hour challenge is about exactly this. Trump claims Dominion was run by Democrats and changed millions ofvotes on Twitter? Okay, let his team say that under oath. Trump claims 700,000 votes in Pennsylvania were illegal? Okay, but he literally just dropped that lawsuit today. It's time for Trump supporters to admit they don't actually have any facts, evidence or proof. They just have their widdie feewings being hurt.

[Felya]

My most recent 24-hour challenge is about exactly this.

Just a heads up, but I’m pretty sure two people on your list are perma banned and one will never show his face here again...

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Dave Rubin, from putting on the MAGA hat for the first time on the 3rd, to calling GOP impotent losers on the 6th:

[Egomaniac]

Not true, both are handled by Amendments. For example the 12th Amendment changed the voting process for the VP, because the emergence of partisan politics had caused the original system to completely break down.

The process is the same. The willingness to engage in that process is entirely different.

[Machismo]

Just a heads up, but I’m pretty sure two people on your list are perma banned and one will never show his face here again...

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Dave Rubin, from putting on the MAGA hat for the first time on the 3rd, to calling GOP impotent losers on the 6th:

All I have to say is, Fuck Trump. Fuck all his enabling sycophants in his orbit. Fuck every talking head pundit who pushed misinformation, lies, and conspiracy theories to push him into office.

Dave Rubin is a piece of shit excuse for a human being. Glenn Beck is even worse.

[szechuan]

Media: No evidence of fraud.
Politicians: No evidence of fraud.
Legal experts: No evidence of fraud.
Election officials: No evidence of fraud.
Cybersecurity officials: No evidence of fraud.
Dept of Homeland Security: No evidence.
Trumpers : The truth will come out