1. #36661
    Quote Originally Posted by Winter Blossom View Post
    Come Jan 20th, Biden will be the active President and the military will follow his orders, doesn’t matter what Trump says/does.
    Debatable.

    It's unprecedented but the military doesn't really have a legal mechanism for choosing whose the legitimate Commander in Chief.

    It's more and more looking like Republicans will either try to overturn the results or refuse to accept the legitimacy.

    Let's say Biden is swears in and Trump swears in. Independently of each other.

    One has control of the civilian infrastructure of the military (Trump) the other doesn't (Biden).

    Whatever happens here, I think the military will sit this one out and just fall in line with the eventual outcome.

    I think people who place their faith in the military to step in and save them...are deluding themselves with wishful thinking.

    Also anyone who thought that Republicans after an initial phase of denial will eventually gradually come to their senses and take a step back from the brink and drag Trump with them were also deluding themselves.

    Tho opposite has happened and is happening.

    I've said on election night, this is only over when Trump is no longer in the White House, even then this won't be really truly over, assuming Trump doesn't just stay on.
    Quote Originally Posted by Orlong View Post
    It doesnt destroy the land to bury styrofoam 25 feet below the ground
    Today Obama once again kneeled at the altar of environmental naziism and hurt this once great country. He has now banned all drilling in the Atlantic Ocean

  2. #36662
    The Insane Orange Joe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winter Blossom View Post
    Republicans saying they’re ready to go to Civil War if Trump tells them to. It’s bloody insane... the absolute denial and loyalty these people give him. It’s exactly what Trump wants.

    Link: https://www.yahoo.com/news/why-repub...120755031.html
    If only people said shit like this would happen 4 years ago before Trump was elected. I mean who would have thought Trump was a complete shitbag

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Mihalik View Post
    Debatable.

    It's unprecedented but the military doesn't really have a legal mechanism for choosing whose the legitimate Commander in Chief.

    It's more and more looking like Republicans will either try to overturn the results or refuse to accept the legitimacy.

    Let's say Biden is swears in and Trump swears in. Independently of each other.

    One has control of the civilian infrastructure of the military (Trump) the other doesn't (Biden).

    Whatever happens here, I think the military will sit this one out and just fall in line with the eventual outcome.

    I think people who place their faith in the military to step in and save them...are deluding themselves with wishful thinking.

    Also anyone who thought that Republicans after an initial phase of denial will eventually gradually come to their senses and take a step back from the brink and drag Trump with them were also deluding themselves.

    Tho opposite has happened and is happening.

    I've said on election night, this is only over when Trump is no longer in the White House, even then this won't be really truly over, assuming Trump doesn't just stay on.


    That can't even happen.
    I have a fan. Seems he was permabanned.
    Yo, don't mind my "street talk"

  3. #36663
    Quote Originally Posted by Levelfive View Post
    The conventional wisdom that Hillary lost because she's an establishment candidate is belied by, among other things, Joe Biden's win with ~80 million votes, 306 EC votes, and gaining ground with Georgia, Arizona, and Nevada, so it fails and requires a different explanation.
    Yes, Biden won with a huge number of votes, but scraped by in nail-biters in a handful of states - why is that? Really, think about it.

    It's because the majority of those increased votes were in already blue states. Not in say, FL and OH where you really needed them. So his he was only strong in the places that were already going to vote Democrat, and weak in battleground states - this is the exact opposite of the entire rationale for nominating him.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    Look Batman really isn't an accurate source by any means
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooked View Post
    It is a fact, not just something I made up.

  4. #36664
    Quote Originally Posted by Mihalik View Post
    Debatable.

    It's unprecedented but the military doesn't really have a legal mechanism for choosing whose the legitimate Commander in Chief.

    It's more and more looking like Republicans will either try to overturn the results or refuse to accept the legitimacy.

    Let's say Biden is swears in and Trump swears in. Independently of each other.

    One has control of the civilian infrastructure of the military (Trump) the other doesn't (Biden).

    Whatever happens here, I think the military will sit this one out and just fall in line with the eventual outcome.

    I think people who place their faith in the military to step in and save them...are deluding themselves with wishful thinking.

    Also anyone who thought that Republicans after an initial phase of denial will eventually gradually come to their senses and take a step back from the brink and drag Trump with them were also deluding themselves.

    Tho opposite has happened and is happening.

    I've said on election night, this is only over when Trump is no longer in the White House, even then this won't be really truly over, assuming Trump doesn't just stay on.
    Once Biden is sworn in, regardless of Trumps’ delusional position on the matter, the military follows Biden. The military has already said they “remain apolitical during the electoral process” and “would ensure a peaceful transition in accordance with the constitution if necessary”.
    Fairy tales are more than true – not because they tell us dragons exist, but because they tell us dragons can be beaten. -G. K. Chesterton & Neil Gaiman
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  5. #36665
    Quote Originally Posted by downnola View Post
    He didn't fail to perform. He won the election.
    He barely won the election, failed to manifest the "blue wave" as constantly speculated, and failed in the exact states where establishment candidates claim they should be appealing. If an establishment candidate can't win in FL and OH, what's the point of them?

    Now Biden enters office as the oldest President in history, with a likely inimical Senate. Incumbent parties usually lose seats in the midterm, so that's 2022... and 2024 is the map that favours Republicans. This was the chance to turn the tide, and he blew it.

    Back in 2016, I believed in these establishment arguments too. They make sense, they're conventional political wisdom. Besides, I have no horse in this race - I don't live in America and wouldn't vote if I did. But then 2016 and 2020 happened, and the result is plain as the nose on your face. Hillary and Biden both promised that they could appeal to swing voters more than a candidate who actually stood for real change. They both failed spectacularly at that. One barely won, the other barely lost, sure. But what neither did is win over the "middle".

    There are only two possibilities. One is that the middle is so small it effectively doesn't exist. The other is that middling candidates like Hillary and Biden do not appeal to the middle. Whichever of these is true, it completely undermines any reason to put up establishment candidates.
    Last edited by Mormolyce; 2020-11-21 at 03:32 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    Look Batman really isn't an accurate source by any means
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooked View Post
    It is a fact, not just something I made up.

  6. #36666
    Quote Originally Posted by Benggaul View Post
    What I said:
    "Well for one thing Pfizer's vaccine was developed in New York"
    And as I stated that statement had two errors, you could just have accepted that and moved on - but instead you decide to make a big deal out of it,

    First and foremost it's actually a Pfizer and BioNTech vaccine, as Pfizer themselves says https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-re...didate-against - and secondly it wasn't developed in New York, but primarily in Germany.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BNT162b2
    BioNTech is the original developer of the underlying vaccine technology, while Pfizer provides logistics, finances and oversees the clinical trials, and is the manufacturing partner of BNT162b2 worldwide, with the exception of China where the license was purchased by Fosun
    Quote Originally Posted by Benggaul View Post
    And now this: "Pfizer's lab in Rockland County [Benggaul's note: this is in New York] is the primary research and development center for the vaccine."
    Which was linking to a local story in the New York region that just claimed that they "spearheaded" the effort - what-ever that means.
    That article also call it a Pfizer and BioNTech vaccine in the text.

    Quote Originally Posted by Benggaul View Post
    You are the one who all of a sudden went off on some strange pseudo-nationalistic journey.
    No, I'm just trying to set the facts straight.

    And for distributing vaccine the more important part is manufacturing, which in the US is done in Kalamazoo, Michigan (and gov. Gretchen is unlikely to do as Trump says), and finally it seems Pfizer is in charge of the logistics of distribution in the US (they didn't opt into that part of WarpSpeed):
    https://www.fox5ny.com/news/trump-cl...ed-to-new-york

  7. #36667
    Quote Originally Posted by Winter Blossom View Post
    Republicans saying they’re ready to go to Civil War if Trump tells them to. It’s bloody insane... the absolute denial and loyalty these people give him. It’s exactly what Trump wants.
    Seriously, just do it. Let's finally get this over with.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    Look Batman really isn't an accurate source by any means
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooked View Post
    It is a fact, not just something I made up.

  8. #36668
    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    ...
    It's because the majority of those increased votes were in already blue states. Not in say, FL and OH where you really needed them. So his he was only strong in the places that were already going to vote Democrat, and weak in battleground states - this is the exact opposite of the entire rationale for nominating him.
    That's living with the flaws of the electoral college.

    ~80 million people vs ~73 million people

    Blue states/Red states shouldn't even enter into the equation. Land doesn't vote.

  9. #36669
    Quote Originally Posted by Orange Joe View Post
    If only people said shit like this would happen 4 years ago before Trump was elected. I mean who would have thought Trump was a complete shitbag

    - - - Updated - - -





    That can't even happen.
    sure it can. Biden get's sworn in by Roberts at the capital building, While Trump get's sworn in by Rudy on the golf course.

  10. #36670
    Elemental Lord zealo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orange Joe View Post

    That can't even happen.
    Wouldn't be that shocking if it does, it's happened before in countries the US has "exported" democracy to.

  11. #36671
    Quote Originally Posted by beanman12345 View Post
    sure it can. Biden get's sworn in by Roberts at the capital building, While Trump get's sworn in by Rudy on the golf course.
    We can all declare ourselves President and swear in. I’ll get my neighbor to do mine—just as valid!
    Fairy tales are more than true – not because they tell us dragons exist, but because they tell us dragons can be beaten. -G. K. Chesterton & Neil Gaiman
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  12. #36672
    Quote Originally Posted by DarkAmbient View Post
    What is actually going to happen if he refuses to leave? Will they literally have to escort him out of the White House? Can the military/security services etc just refuse to take orders from him anymore?
    Most likely that will not happen, he's probably just going to slink off to Mar-a-Lago or wherever. But LegalEagle did a video about what would happen legally speaking in such an absurd scenario:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnhF_Qw0dtk

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by beanman12345 View Post
    sure it can. Biden get's sworn in by Roberts at the capital building, While Trump get's sworn in by Rudy on the golf course.
    Is Four Seasons Landscaping unavailable?
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    Look Batman really isn't an accurate source by any means
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooked View Post
    It is a fact, not just something I made up.

  13. #36673
    Quote Originally Posted by Resurgo View Post
    That's living with the flaws of the electoral college.

    ~80 million people vs ~73 million people

    Blue states/Red states shouldn't even enter into the equation. Land doesn't vote.
    Also Biden won in all the places Hillary didn't, the suburbs. Like it doesn't even make sense to even attack philly. Biden only got about 1000 more votes in philly than Clinton. Detroit same situation. which is crazy that trump and the supporters are attacking these cities, where the votes all came from the suburbs. Biden did exactly what he needed to do. To say Biden failed i don't get the argument at all.

  14. #36674
    Quote Originally Posted by beanman12345 View Post
    rofl. idiots. “If I’m being manipulated by Trump ... then he is the greatest con man that ever lived in America,” uhhhhhhhhh yeah bro he is.
    Actually he's an awful con man, his lies couldn't be more obvious. These people are the most gullible rubes on the face of the planet.

    I mean this is a country where this man, who is the most obvious creep and scammer I've ever seen, somehow rips suckers off to the tune of millions:

    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    Look Batman really isn't an accurate source by any means
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooked View Post
    It is a fact, not just something I made up.

  15. #36675
    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    Most likely that will not happen, he's probably just going to slink off to Mar-a-Lago or wherever.
    Has any President refused to be there for the transition of power?
    Fairy tales are more than true – not because they tell us dragons exist, but because they tell us dragons can be beaten. -G. K. Chesterton & Neil Gaiman
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  16. #36676
    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    Actually he's an awful con man, his lies couldn't be more obvious. These people are the most gullible rubes on the face of the planet.

    I mean this is a country where this man, who is the most obvious creep and scammer I've ever seen, somehow rips suckers off to the tune of millions:
    I challenge you to name a more successful conman in US history.

  17. #36677
    Quote Originally Posted by Winter Blossom View Post
    Has any President refused to be there for the transition of power?
    Is Trump in any way Presidential?

  18. #36678
    Elemental Lord zealo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winter Blossom View Post
    Has any President refused to be there for the transition of power?
    If there's any hallmark of the last 4 years politically, it's a complete disregard for conventions and traditions, from the GOP and the President.

    There's always a time for a first, especially with a man like Trump.

  19. #36679
    Void Lord Doctor Amadeus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mihalik View Post
    Debatable.

    It's unprecedented but the military doesn't really have a legal mechanism for choosing whose the legitimate Commander in Chief.

    It's more and more looking like Republicans will either try to overturn the results or refuse to accept the legitimacy.

    Let's say Biden is swears in and Trump swears in. Independently of each other.

    One has control of the civilian infrastructure of the military (Trump) the other doesn't (Biden).

    Whatever happens here, I think the military will sit this one out and just fall in line with the eventual outcome.

    I think people who place their faith in the military to step in and save them...are deluding themselves with wishful thinking.

    Also anyone who thought that Republicans after an initial phase of denial will eventually gradually come to their senses and take a step back from the brink and drag Trump with them were also deluding themselves.

    Tho opposite has happened and is happening.

    I've said on election night, this is only over when Trump is no longer in the White House, even then this won't be really truly over, assuming Trump doesn't just stay on.
    NO and NO, none of this bullshit will even come close to happening, and yes there is precedent set for when Joe Biden is sworn in, he becomes the President of the United States, the Military, the SS and will fall in line.

    Now before that Trump Could try to a Military coup, but that is a different matter.

    As to the military being used to quell uprising after Biden is sworn in, that is exactly what the President Biden is empowered to do.
    #ANTIFA "Intellect alone is useless in a fight...you can't even break a rule, how can you be expected to break bone" Khan Singh

  20. #36680
    Quote Originally Posted by beanman12345 View Post
    I challenge you to name a more successful conman in US history.

    Honestly this one of the most bizarre things for me concerning Trump, I mean from my point of view he is as obvious a conman as you can get the guy who in books and movies everyone in the audience rolls their eyes at cause he is so obviously the snake oil salesman that is not clever, but believes he is, who does cartoonishly evil things and somehow we are supposed to believe the other characters in the book/movie can't see it.

    And yet here is Trump, president of the united states, with millions of followers willing to do just about anything for him, like he is the second coming...and I can't make my mind see why.

    I've had to re-evaluate all those old books and movies I thought so poorly of before.

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