Mega-Thread: 2020 United States General Election

[Mihalik]

Come Jan 20th, Biden will be the active President and the military will follow his orders, doesn’t matter what Trump says/does.

Debatable.

It's unprecedented but the military doesn't really have a legal mechanism for choosing whose the legitimate Commander in Chief.

It's more and more looking like Republicans will either try to overturn the results or refuse to accept the legitimacy.

Let's say Biden is swears in and Trump swears in. Independently of each other.

One has control of the civilian infrastructure of the military (Trump) the other doesn't (Biden).

Whatever happens here, I think the military will sit this one out and just fall in line with the eventual outcome.

I think people who place their faith in the military to step in and save them...are deluding themselves with wishful thinking.

Also anyone who thought that Republicans after an initial phase of denial will eventually gradually come to their senses and take a step back from the brink and drag Trump with them were also deluding themselves.

Tho opposite has happened and is happening.

I've said on election night, this is only over when Trump is no longer in the White House, even then this won't be really truly over, assuming Trump doesn't just stay on.

[Orange Joe]

Republicans saying they’re ready to go to Civil War if Trump tells them to. It’s bloody insane... the absolute denial and loyalty these people give him. It’s exactly what Trump wants.

Link: https://www.yahoo.com/news/why-repub...120755031.html

If only people said shit like this would happen 4 years ago before Trump was elected. I mean who would have thought Trump was a complete shitbag

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Debatable.

It's unprecedented but the military doesn't really have a legal mechanism for choosing whose the legitimate Commander in Chief.

It's more and more looking like Republicans will either try to overturn the results or refuse to accept the legitimacy.

Let's say Biden is swears in and Trump swears in. Independently of each other.

One has control of the civilian infrastructure of the military (Trump) the other doesn't (Biden).

Whatever happens here, I think the military will sit this one out and just fall in line with the eventual outcome.

I think people who place their faith in the military to step in and save them...are deluding themselves with wishful thinking.

Also anyone who thought that Republicans after an initial phase of denial will eventually gradually come to their senses and take a step back from the brink and drag Trump with them were also deluding themselves.

Tho opposite has happened and is happening.

I've said on election night, this is only over when Trump is no longer in the White House, even then this won't be really truly over, assuming Trump doesn't just stay on.

That can't even happen.

[Mormolyce]

The conventional wisdom that Hillary lost because she's an establishment candidate is belied by, among other things, Joe Biden's win with ~80 million votes, 306 EC votes, and gaining ground with Georgia, Arizona, and Nevada, so it fails and requires a different explanation.

Yes, Biden won with a huge number of votes, but scraped by in nail-biters in a handful of states - why is that? Really, think about it.

It's because the majority of those increased votes were in already blue states. Not in say, FL and OH where you really needed them. So his he was only strong in the places that were already going to vote Democrat, and weak in battleground states - this is the exact opposite of the entire rationale for nominating him.

[Winter Blossom]

Debatable.

It's unprecedented but the military doesn't really have a legal mechanism for choosing whose the legitimate Commander in Chief.

It's more and more looking like Republicans will either try to overturn the results or refuse to accept the legitimacy.

Let's say Biden is swears in and Trump swears in. Independently of each other.

One has control of the civilian infrastructure of the military (Trump) the other doesn't (Biden).

Whatever happens here, I think the military will sit this one out and just fall in line with the eventual outcome.

I think people who place their faith in the military to step in and save them...are deluding themselves with wishful thinking.

Also anyone who thought that Republicans after an initial phase of denial will eventually gradually come to their senses and take a step back from the brink and drag Trump with them were also deluding themselves.

Tho opposite has happened and is happening.

I've said on election night, this is only over when Trump is no longer in the White House, even then this won't be really truly over, assuming Trump doesn't just stay on.

Once Biden is sworn in, regardless of Trumps’ delusional position on the matter, the military follows Biden. The military has already said they “remain apolitical during the electoral process” and “would ensure a peaceful transition in accordance with the constitution if necessary”.

[Mormolyce]

He didn't fail to perform. He won the election.

He barely won the election, failed to manifest the "blue wave" as constantly speculated, and failed in the exact states where establishment candidates claim they should be appealing. If an establishment candidate can't win in FL and OH, what's the point of them?

Now Biden enters office as the oldest President in history, with a likely inimical Senate. Incumbent parties usually lose seats in the midterm, so that's 2022... and 2024 is the map that favours Republicans. This was the chance to turn the tide, and he blew it.

Back in 2016, I believed in these establishment arguments too. They make sense, they're conventional political wisdom. Besides, I have no horse in this race - I don't live in America and wouldn't vote if I did. But then 2016 and 2020 happened, and the result is plain as the nose on your face. Hillary and Biden both promised that they could appeal to swing voters more than a candidate who actually stood for real change. They both failed spectacularly at that. One barely won, the other barely lost, sure. But what neither did is win over the "middle".

There are only two possibilities. One is that the middle is so small it effectively doesn't exist. The other is that middling candidates like Hillary and Biden do not appeal to the middle. Whichever of these is true, it completely undermines any reason to put up establishment candidates.

[Forogil]

What I said:
"Well for one thing Pfizer's vaccine was developed in New York"

And as I stated that statement had two errors, you could just have accepted that and moved on - but instead you decide to make a big deal out of it,

First and foremost it's actually a Pfizer and BioNTech vaccine, as Pfizer themselves says https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-re...didate-against - and secondly it wasn't developed in New York, but primarily in Germany.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BNT162b2

BioNTech is the original developer of the underlying vaccine technology, while Pfizer provides logistics, finances and oversees the clinical trials, and is the manufacturing partner of BNT162b2 worldwide, with the exception of China where the license was purchased by Fosun

And now this: "Pfizer's lab in Rockland County [Benggaul's note: this is in New York] is the primary research and development center for the vaccine."

Which was linking to a local story in the New York region that just claimed that they "spearheaded" the effort - what-ever that means.
That article also call it a Pfizer and BioNTech vaccine in the text.

You are the one who all of a sudden went off on some strange pseudo-nationalistic journey.

No, I'm just trying to set the facts straight.

And for distributing vaccine the more important part is manufacturing, which in the US is done in Kalamazoo, Michigan (and gov. Gretchen is unlikely to do as Trump says), and finally it seems Pfizer is in charge of the logistics of distribution in the US (they didn't opt into that part of WarpSpeed):
https://www.fox5ny.com/news/trump-cl...ed-to-new-york

[Mormolyce]

Republicans saying they’re ready to go to Civil War if Trump tells them to. It’s bloody insane... the absolute denial and loyalty these people give him. It’s exactly what Trump wants.

Seriously, just do it. Let's finally get this over with.

[Resurgo]

...
It's because the majority of those increased votes were in already blue states. Not in say, FL and OH where you really needed them. So his he was only strong in the places that were already going to vote Democrat, and weak in battleground states - this is the exact opposite of the entire rationale for nominating him.

That's living with the flaws of the electoral college.

~80 million people vs ~73 million people

Blue states/Red states shouldn't even enter into the equation. Land doesn't vote.

[beanman12345]

If only people said shit like this would happen 4 years ago before Trump was elected. I mean who would have thought Trump was a complete shitbag

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That can't even happen.

sure it can. Biden get's sworn in by Roberts at the capital building, While Trump get's sworn in by Rudy on the golf course.

[zealo]

That can't even happen.

Wouldn't be that shocking if it does, it's happened before in countries the US has "exported" democracy to.

[Winter Blossom]

sure it can. Biden get's sworn in by Roberts at the capital building, While Trump get's sworn in by Rudy on the golf course.

We can all declare ourselves President and swear in. I’ll get my neighbor to do mine—just as valid!

[Mormolyce]

What is actually going to happen if he refuses to leave? Will they literally have to escort him out of the White House? Can the military/security services etc just refuse to take orders from him anymore?

Most likely that will not happen, he's probably just going to slink off to Mar-a-Lago or wherever. But LegalEagle did a video about what would happen legally speaking in such an absurd scenario:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnhF_Qw0dtk

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sure it can. Biden get's sworn in by Roberts at the capital building, While Trump get's sworn in by Rudy on the golf course.

Is Four Seasons Landscaping unavailable?

[beanman12345]

That's living with the flaws of the electoral college.

~80 million people vs ~73 million people

Blue states/Red states shouldn't even enter into the equation. Land doesn't vote.

Also Biden won in all the places Hillary didn't, the suburbs. Like it doesn't even make sense to even attack philly. Biden only got about 1000 more votes in philly than Clinton. Detroit same situation. which is crazy that trump and the supporters are attacking these cities, where the votes all came from the suburbs. Biden did exactly what he needed to do. To say Biden failed i don't get the argument at all.

[Mormolyce]

rofl. idiots. “If I’m being manipulated by Trump ... then he is the greatest con man that ever lived in America,” uhhhhhhhhh yeah bro he is.

Actually he's an awful con man, his lies couldn't be more obvious. These people are the most gullible rubes on the face of the planet.

I mean this is a country where this man, who is the most obvious creep and scammer I've ever seen, somehow rips suckers off to the tune of millions:

[Winter Blossom]

Most likely that will not happen, he's probably just going to slink off to Mar-a-Lago or wherever.

Has any President refused to be there for the transition of power?

[beanman12345]

Actually he's an awful con man, his lies couldn't be more obvious. These people are the most gullible rubes on the face of the planet.

I mean this is a country where this man, who is the most obvious creep and scammer I've ever seen, somehow rips suckers off to the tune of millions:

I challenge you to name a more successful conman in US history.

[Vegas82]

Has any President refused to be there for the transition of power?

Is Trump in any way Presidential?

[zealo]

Has any President refused to be there for the transition of power?

If there's any hallmark of the last 4 years politically, it's a complete disregard for conventions and traditions, from the GOP and the President.

There's always a time for a first, especially with a man like Trump.

[Doctor Amadeus]

Debatable.

It's unprecedented but the military doesn't really have a legal mechanism for choosing whose the legitimate Commander in Chief.

It's more and more looking like Republicans will either try to overturn the results or refuse to accept the legitimacy.

Let's say Biden is swears in and Trump swears in. Independently of each other.

One has control of the civilian infrastructure of the military (Trump) the other doesn't (Biden).

Whatever happens here, I think the military will sit this one out and just fall in line with the eventual outcome.

I think people who place their faith in the military to step in and save them...are deluding themselves with wishful thinking.

Also anyone who thought that Republicans after an initial phase of denial will eventually gradually come to their senses and take a step back from the brink and drag Trump with them were also deluding themselves.

Tho opposite has happened and is happening.

I've said on election night, this is only over when Trump is no longer in the White House, even then this won't be really truly over, assuming Trump doesn't just stay on.

NO and NO, none of this bullshit will even come close to happening, and yes there is precedent set for when Joe Biden is sworn in, he becomes the President of the United States, the Military, the SS and will fall in line.

Now before that Trump Could try to a Military coup, but that is a different matter.

As to the military being used to quell uprising after Biden is sworn in, that is exactly what the President Biden is empowered to do.

[Casterbridge]

I challenge you to name a more successful conman in US history.

Honestly this one of the most bizarre things for me concerning Trump, I mean from my point of view he is as obvious a conman as you can get the guy who in books and movies everyone in the audience rolls their eyes at cause he is so obviously the snake oil salesman that is not clever, but believes he is, who does cartoonishly evil things and somehow we are supposed to believe the other characters in the book/movie can't see it.

And yet here is Trump, president of the united states, with millions of followers willing to do just about anything for him, like he is the second coming...and I can't make my mind see why.

I've had to re-evaluate all those old books and movies I thought so poorly of before.