Mega-Thread: 2020 United States General Election

[breadisfunny]

Sociopath? That would be me.
Dacien is disrespectful of boundaries.

that's like being proud of being a trump supporter.

[Thepersona]

I do know that DeSantis has a lot to be proud of in Florida, not just for the low numbers of deaths, but also because his state was a destination hot spot for people fleeing states that were not faring as well.

Dude, DeSantis is lying. Short and simple

[Eviscero]

I do know that DeSantis has a lot to be proud of in Florida, not just for the low numbers of deaths, but also because his state was a destination hot spot for people fleeing states that were not faring as well.

Oh yes, lots to be proud of. Even with his attempt to manipulate the data, there is an emerging upward trend in daily new cases. Stellar fucking job.

[Shadowferal]

that's like being proud of being a trump supporter.

Except I've never been a Trump supporter.

[Elegiac]

I do know that DeSantis has a lot to be proud of in Florida, not just for the low numbers of deaths, but also because his state was a destination hot spot for people fleeing states that were not faring as well.

How does it feel to look in the mirror in the morning knowing you're going to have to shill for someone responsible for avoidable American deaths to the tune of 9/11 times a hundred, out of curiosity?

Sarah Huckabee Syndrome is a treatable condition and would be covered under Medicare for All, fyi.

[Edge-]

How does it feel to look in the mirror in the morning knowing you're going to have to shill for someone responsible for avoidable American deaths to the tune of 9/11 times a hundred, out of curiosity?

Sarah Huckabee Syndrome is a treatable condition and would be covered under Medicare for All, fyi.

I mean...aside from that, 100K deaths in less than 6 months is mind blowing (we'll probably hit that depressing threshold around Tuesday at the latest). I think that eclipses our deaths in every major war, even the Civil War, by a considerable margin at 6 months in.

We're roughly 6 months into this thing, a thing that we and others saw coming and had time to prepare for, and we have 100,000 Americans dead in less than a year.

And the discussion is not about holding criminal investigations into the Trump Administration for criminal negligence and putting the national security of the US at risk (have you see how well the navy is handling it? what if we had to engage in an actual conflict?), and both sides of the isle would be calling for whoever is responsible to be strung up in public and beaten to death a la Mussolini and it would be livestreamed on every major social media platform.

And we're just kinda treating this like it's sorta not completely batshit insane. Not that it's abnormal, I mean, we're all stuck inside, we have to wear masks, and we can't get our haircuts?! LIFE IS NOT NORMAL. But the kind of casual way in which we treat more Americans dying than died in one of the, if not the, least popular war in American history as if it's just a result of maybe some bad policy or something.

I mean, did you see the pictures of the beaches and the pools and the other huge gatherings this weekend alone? Packed bars in some areas? A hairdresser who continued working while sick and potentially infected hundreds of her clients? Nobody really seems to be taking this that seriously, more like it's a mild to extreme inconvenience.

And meanwhile, the fucking capitalist death cult, including members of this current administration up for re-election, have been champing at the bit from day 1 to keep the economy open and people working and spending again because the alternative hurts the economy. Go to work. But be sure to die with a smile on your face or the customer might leave a bad yelp review.

[Louisa Bannon]

Just a suggestion:

Depraved Indifference Law and Legal Definition
To constitute depraved indifference, the defendant's conduct must be 'so wanton, so deficient in a moral sense of concern, so lacking in regard for the life or lives of others, and so blameworthy as to warrant the same criminal liability as that which the law imposes upon a person who intentionally causes a crime. Depraved indifference focuses on the risk created by the defendant’s conduct, not the injuries actually resulting.

In one case, People v Register, 60 NY2d 273, 469 NYS2d 599 (1983),while exploring the meaning of "depraved indifference recklessness" the Court of Appeals ruled that intoxication is not a defense or excuse to "depraved mind murder," although it may be to intentional murder. Its analysis started with distinguishing reckless manslaughter from the "depraved indifference recklessness" necessary for murder:

"to bring defendant’s conduct within the murder statute, the People were required to establish also that defendant’s act was imminently dangerous and presented a very high risk of death to others and that it was committed under circumstances which evidenced a wanton indifference to human life or a depravity of mind. . . . . The crime differs from intentional murder in that it results not from a specific, conscious intent to cause death, but from an indifference to or disregard of the risks attending defendant’s conduct." 60 NY2d at 274.

https://definitions.uslegal.com/d/de...-indifference/

Something along these lines anyway. We have these jackasses on TV talking about the NEED to open up the economy, restaurants, bars, churches, swimming pools, etc. We have other mentally challenged folks making false claims about certain medication. Hell, I think I heard something about drinking bleach. Is that kind of idiocy realistically defensible?

[Elegiac]

I mean...aside from that, 100K deaths in less than 6 months is mind blowing (we'll probably hit that depressing threshold around Tuesday at the latest). I think that eclipses our deaths in every major war, even the Civil War, by a considerable margin at 6 months in.

We're roughly 6 months into this thing, a thing that we and others saw coming and had time to prepare for, and we have 100,000 Americans dead in less than a year.

And the discussion is not about holding criminal investigations into the Trump Administration for criminal negligence and putting the national security of the US at risk (have you see how well the navy is handling it? what if we had to engage in an actual conflict?), and both sides of the isle would be calling for whoever is responsible to be strung up in public and beaten to death a la Mussolini and it would be livestreamed on every major social media platform.

And we're just kinda treating this like it's sorta not completely batshit insane. Not that it's abnormal, I mean, we're all stuck inside, we have to wear masks, and we can't get our haircuts?! LIFE IS NOT NORMAL. But the kind of casual way in which we treat more Americans dying than died in one of the, if not the, least popular war in American history as if it's just a result of maybe some bad policy or something.

I mean, did you see the pictures of the beaches and the pools and the other huge gatherings this weekend alone? Packed bars in some areas? A hairdresser who continued working while sick and potentially infected hundreds of her clients? Nobody really seems to be taking this that seriously, more like it's a mild to extreme inconvenience.

And meanwhile, the fucking capitalist death cult, including members of this current administration up for re-election, have been champing at the bit from day 1 to keep the economy open and people working and spending again because the alternative hurts the economy. Go to work. But be sure to die with a smile on your face or the customer might leave a bad yelp review.

That's why I feel it's important to restate the human toll frequently in the discussion. Skip to 0:40 on this video of Larry Kramer:



I've had to bludgeon several people in the LGBT community over the head with this particular clip over the past few weeks, simply because we of all people should understand the costs of government incompetence in the face of a public health crisis. But it's equally as relevant to the general public; we are in the middle of a fucking plague. There is no "normal", no matter how many ignorant Americans decide that COVID is over because they got bored of it.

[Tandristal]

I mean...aside from that, 100K deaths in less than 6 months is mind blowing

Sorry but any one who plans to vote for either Biden or Trump is by definition opposing national healthcare and responsible for the problem.

The halfwits drinking bleach and going to the beach are not helping but to some extent they exist everywhere. The major cause of the very high numbers of deaths is that you simply don't treat enough people because people can't afford to go to doctors. And don't give me that crap about Obamacare/Romneycare being better: it is a private healthcare system that still cut vast numbers of people out of the system. You'd have the same problem growing at a marginally slower rate.

It is absolutely nauseating hearing corporate Democrats whine on about this stuff. The Democrats had 8 years in power to create a fully inclusive system. They spent most of it giving money to Wall St. You don't get to whine about it.

[Elegiac]

Sorry but any one who plans to vote for either Biden or Trump is by definition opposing national healthcare and responsible for the problem.

The halfwits drinking bleach and going to the beach are not helping but to some extent they exist everywhere. The major cause of the very high numbers of deaths is that you simply don't treat enough people because people can't afford to go to doctors. And don't give me that crap about Obamacare/Romneycare being better: it is a private healthcare system that still cut vast numbers of people out of the system. You'd have the same problem growing at a marginally slower rate.

It is absolutely nauseating hearing corporate Democrats whine on about this stuff. The Democrats had 8 years in power to create a fully inclusive system. They spent most of it giving money to Wall St. You don't get to whine about it.

> People discussing the human cost of government incompetence
> "bUt wHaT aBoUt BeRnIe?!!!"

Y'all are wild. Sit down.

[Felya]

Sorry but any one who plans to vote for either Biden or Trump is by definition opposing national healthcare and responsible for the problem.

How is not voting, or voting for someone you know will lose, keep you in the political discussion next year? With GOP far gone and Democrats now picking up elderly support. Who is going to listen to your issues of importance?

[Tandristal]

How is not voting, or voting for someone you know will lose, keep you in the political discussion next year?

You keep trying to twist this away from the fact you are supporting a candidate everyone knows works with corporations against the public interest. I am not interested in your intellectually vacuous deflections and rationalizations of that simple fact.

- - - Updated - - -

> People discussing the human cost of government incompetence
> "bUt wHaT aBoUt BeRnIe?!!!"

Y'all are wild. Sit down.

You really need to learn to communicate in proper English. People who communicate like this come across as having learning difficulties.

[Deja Thoris]

You really need to learn to communicate in proper English. People who communicate like this come across as having learning difficulties.

He was poking fun at a segment, you know that, youre just shit stirring, banned alt.

[Felya]

You keep trying to twist this away from the fact you are supporting a candidate everyone knows works with corporations against the public interest. I am not interested in your intellectually vacuous deflections and rationalizations of that simple fact.

What deflections? If you don’t vote, why do you mater to politicians? Democrats are pulling the elderly, due to covid response. While you are not going to vote for Trump either way. So... Explain to me, why any party should appeal to your policy? The elderly are far more consistent with their voting.

- - - Updated - - -

Y'all are wild. Sit down.

They are already sitting and will do the same on Election Day. Making them completely irrelevant to the political discourse.

That’s what I recently realized about people demanding that others don’t vote. They are not going to vote for Trump either, making them completely irrelevant and not a reliable voting block, like conservatives seem to be. Right now, it’s more important to sway the elderly, because they are a reliable voting block and you are taking votes away from Trump.

[ati87]

Sorry but any one who plans to vote for either Biden or Trump is by definition opposing national healthcare and responsible for the problem.

The halfwits drinking bleach and going to the beach are not helping but to some extent they exist everywhere. The major cause of the very high numbers of deaths is that you simply don't treat enough people because people can't afford to go to doctors. And don't give me that crap about Obamacare/Romneycare being better: it is a private healthcare system that still cut vast numbers of people out of the system. You'd have the same problem growing at a marginally slower rate.

It is absolutely nauseating hearing corporate Democrats whine on about this stuff. The Democrats had 8 years in power to create a fully inclusive system. They spent most of it giving money to Wall St. You don't get to whine about it.

Obama had 2 years and it arguably lost his majority in one chamber of congress. Also given the history of failed healthcare reform Obama's ACA is historical achievement really.

Here is the difference between Biden and Trump. Trump and the GOP have no interest in improving healthcare in the US, if they did the GOP would have come up with an actual reform bill by now.
Biden/Democrats honestly would push for a better system but are afraid of losing elections because close to 50% of the voters in the US are idiots who may agree with Sanders but won't vote for him and people like him. Then frankly you can't fault the party for not implementing your dream changes.

[PACOX]

https://www.axios.com/republicans-su...f95ee1ea4.html

Democrats are still trying to explain how they can be hypocrites like the Republicans while the Republicans are making moves to steal the election.

Said it in another thread, they are set the case that mail-in-voting is only an optional provision (opposed to necessary in the event of another lockdown) to gain access to options in November - be it running a campaign to get people to stay home (which liberals are more likely to listen to and conservatives ignore) or they will limit access to polling places.

Democratic leaders should be urging their states to expand mail-in voting or counting suing to create a protected nation wide standard for mail-in voting.

I honestly do not think the core players in either party want mail-in voting to be nationally protected. On one hand it allows people who already vote rain or shine easier access to the polls, conservatives. On the other it makes it harder to disenfranchise the working class, young, minorities, people who tend to be on the left. Really it makes it easier for people who never vote, people who more than likely don't vote because they don't like the state of politics in general, to vote - people who will quickly vote against 'establishment' candidates on either side.

If the voting issue is treated the same 'maybe if we call them out on it they'll suddenly grow some morality' attitude thats been the norm...the election is over.

[Endus]

And meanwhile, the fucking capitalist death cult, including members of this current administration up for re-election, have been champing at the bit from day 1 to keep the economy open and people working and spending again because the alternative hurts the economy. Go to work. But be sure to die with a smile on your face or the customer might leave a bad yelp review.

Also, let's be clear that even if we want to just look at the economy, ignoring the human toll (which we shouldn't, but bear with me), the USA's response is still monumentally craptastic.

The USA's unemployment rate is currently 14.7%. In January, before this kicked off anywhere really (a baseline I'm using because I want it close enough in time, but before the coronavirus responses kicked off), that unemployment rate was 3.6%. An increase of 11.1%.

Canada's unemployment rate currently? 13%. Not as high, but not great. But where were we in January? 5.5%. A bunch higher than the USA's. So our unemployment only spiked 7.5%.

And Canada's not the only comparison. Most of the better-off EU nations are currently sub-10% unemployment.

Because here's the thing about the USA's "capitalistic death cult"; it's really fucking bad at capitalism. It sees "capitalism" not as an economic system that can support the welfare of its nations and workers, but as an exploitative system whereby the enshrined aristocracy can squeeze all the wealth out of the system and secure it for their sole benefit, by exploiting the working and middle classes. It's so cartoonishly evil that multiple Disney villains fit the archetype perfectly; Prince John from Robin Hood, Cruella DeVille, Jafar, likely others. Not just that these characters are accidentally kind of similar; what makes them villainous are considered to be virtuous, by the "capitalistic death cult". They are these villains. Or want to be. These are their heroes.

And that's why the system inevitably falls apart. Because these villains do not run economies. They are leeches who bleed off wealth for their own benefit until the host collapses and dies. And that's what's happening now; the host can't handle more than one disease, so the American economy is collapsing as it can't handle both parasitic pseudo-capitalist parasitism and COVID-19.

[DKjaigen]

I mean...aside from that, 100K deaths in less than 6 months is mind blowing (we'll probably hit that depressing threshold around Tuesday at the latest). I think that eclipses our deaths in every major war, even the Civil War, by a considerable margin at 6 months in.

And meanwhile, the fucking capitalist death cult, including members of this current administration up for re-election, have been champing at the bit from day 1 to keep the economy open and people working and spending again because the alternative hurts the economy. Go to work. But be sure to die with a smile on your face or the customer might leave a bad yelp review.

This disease is inevitable so why complain about. You will get it this year or the next.

[Milchshake]

The second wave of the virus is still coming. Kinda wish the PResident was preparing America for the second wave instead of golf.

[downnola]

This disease is inevitable so why complain about. You will get it this year or the next.

I'm really starting to hate this place.