Mega-Thread: 2020 United States General Election

[Felya]

Nick Cordero just died of Covid... Fox News is the only source not reporting the cause in the title. He was 41...

[eschatological]

Data shows that not liking a candidate tends be a particularly strong motivating factor. For instance, in 2016, quite a number of people weren't voting for Trump so much as they were voting against Clinton.

And the corollary to that, of course, is that a Bernie candidacy could have driven anti-antifa/anti-socialism/anti-communism fear mongering and driven Trump voters out in bigger numbers, including the Lincoln Project-type Republicans who are now firmly at the "mainstream" right and pushing Biden as hard as they can.

That's exactly the calculation black people in South Carolina made. There's been explanations by prominent black scholars on it. Black people simply don't trust white people to do the right thing, and not be driven by fear and propaganda, so they chose someone who they thought was as milquetoast as possible so the campaign focuses on how batshit insane Trump is. And so far, so good. Because despite Hina's (and many of our) criticisms of Biden, he's seen as boring and unoffensive to the vast majority of white, middle-class voters.

[Hinastorm]

And the corollary to that, of course, is that a Bernie candidacy could have driven anti-antifa/anti-socialism/anti-communism fear mongering and driven Trump voters out in bigger numbers, including the Lincoln Project-type Republicans who are now firmly at the "mainstream" right and pushing Biden as hard as they can.

That's exactly the calculation black people in South Carolina made. There's been explanations by prominent black scholars on it. Black people simply don't trust white people to do the right thing, and not be driven by fear and propaganda, so they chose someone who they thought was as milquetoast as possible so the campaign focuses on how batshit insane Trump is. And so far, so good. Because despite your (and many of our) criticisms of Biden, he's seen as boring and unoffensive to the vast majority of white, middle-class voters.

Until we get closer to the election, and the right concocts some ridiculous nonsense about Biden specifically designed to scare right wing idiots.

[eschatological]

Until we get closer to the election, and the right concocts some ridiculous nonsense about Biden specifically designed to scare right wing idiots.

Sure. But that's something the campaign can prepare for. It won't sway the Lincoln-Project types, I guarantee it. All of Biden's so-called scandals are.....what? Corruption based? You think right wing voters honestly care about corruption?

Voters of the ilk who are sway in October usually pick a candidate based on one or two issues. For right-leaning voters in that category, those are big-ticket issues: abortion, gay rights, and so on, and so forth. Biden is pretty clear on his stance on those issues, and if being pro-Choice and pro-gay marriage is something that's a no for these voters, well, he's already lost them.

[DarkTZeratul]

Until we get closer to the election, and the right concocts some ridiculous nonsense about Biden specifically designed to scare right wing idiots.

You keep saying that as though they wouldn't have also concocted some ridiculous nonsense about Sanders specifically designed to scare right wing idiots. There's nothing about Biden that makes him uniquely susceptible to that kind of bullshit.

[Felya]

Didn't read past the first sentence.

Do you disagree with the statement "Bernie Sanders does, and would of, supported the economic well being of black people, more so than Joe Biden, based on all the current information we have today"?

If you disagree with that statement, you're not paying attention.

I disagree... you said does, not rhetoric. Sanders would be bound by the same senate as Biden will. The bills that land on his desk will be the same and he will sign the same version Sanders would have.

Explain what Bernie has done, that would favor your prediction?

The primary and the general are 2 very different monsters when it comes to turnout. This is well documented. The added incentive to vote trump out during the general being the most obvious factor.

The problem with Trump’s campaign is currently that it was more designed against people like Warren and Bernie. It wasn’t designed against Biden, which you can clearly see in few buying the “puppet of the far left”, which would have worked better against Bernie, since he would be played as the far left.

Also, Bernie is simply not popular in the south... you can pretend the general election would be different, but there are no signs that Bernie would have picked up the rust belt votes that Hillary couldn’t.

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Until we get closer to the election, and the right concocts some ridiculous nonsense about Biden specifically designed to scare right wing idiots.

The current rhetoric against Biden, is that he is a puppet of left wing redials like Bernie. We know what the rhetoric against Bernie would be, Trump’s campaign is designed for it.

[Hinastorm]

You keep saying that as though they wouldn't have also concocted some ridiculous nonsense about Sanders specifically designed to scare right wing idiots. There's nothing about Biden that makes him uniquely susceptible to that kind of bullshit.

They would do it with Sanders yes, but the difference is the right would not need the additional inventive to hate Bernie.

All they have to do is double down on the whole already tried and (not) true Bernie=socialism=bad angle.

[DarkTZeratul]

They would do it with Sanders yes, but the difference is the right would not need the additional inventive to hate Bernie.

All they have to do is double down on the whole already tried and (not) true Bernie=socialism=bad angle.

Ah, so Biden is a worse choice because they have to make up bullshit to get people not to vote for him, versus Sanders who they won't vote for regardless?

I don't think you're making the argument you think you are.

[Felya]

They would do it with Sanders yes, but the difference is the right would not need the additional inventive to hate Bernie.

All they have to do is double down on the whole already tried and (not) true Bernie=socialism=bad angle.

They are... Trump has not pivoted from that plan. It’s why Biden is the puppet of the far left, instead of being the far left. Bernie being far left, is the only thing Trump still has... he can’t react to Biden, other than call him old,

[Hinastorm]

I disagree... you said does, not rhetoric. Sanders would be bound by the same senate as Biden will. The bills that land on his desk will be the same and he will sign the same version Sanders would have.

Explain what Bernie has done, that would favor your prediction?



The problem with Trump’s campaign is currently that it was more designed against people like Warren and Bernie. It wasn’t designed against Biden, which you can clearly see in few buying the “puppet of the far left”, which would have worked better against Bernie, since he would be played as the far left.

Also, Bernie is simply not popular in the south... you can pretend the general election would be different, but there are no signs that Bernie would have picked up the rust belt votes that Hillary couldn’t.

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The current rhetoric against Biden, is that he is a puppet of left wing redials like Bernie. We know what the rhetoric against Bernie would be, Trump’s campaign is designed for it.

While it's super tempting to take 5 minutes to link you dozens of sources and quotes pointing out all the ways Bernie is far more economically left, and thus more likely to help black people as a whole, than Biden is, I think i'll pass.

I said supported, what a future senate does or does not do has nothing to do with my quote that I asked if he disagreed with.

I'm getting the feeling that you just read my "Do you disagree with X" and but your contrarian cap on.

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They are... Trump has not pivoted from that plan. It’s why Biden is the puppet of the far left, instead of being the far left. Bernie being far left, is the only thing Trump still has... he can’t react to Biden, other than call him old,

You grossly underestimate trumps willingness and ability to create bullshit about an opponent out of thin air. And the willingness and ability of his duped cultists to swallow it.

[Felya]

While it's super tempting to take 5 minutes to link you dozens of sources and quotes pointing out all the ways Bernie is far more economically left, and thus more likely to help black people as a whole, than Biden is, I think i'll pass.

That’s cool, because it saves me time in linking dozens of articles showing the contrary. lol

I said supported, what a future senate does or does not do has nothing to do with my quote that I asked if he disagreed with.

It does, because what he can do, maters more than what he can say. For example... you can provide dozens of links on the topic, but you won’t. There is a chasm between those two statements, that any rational person should see a problem with.

I'm getting the feeling that you just read my "Do you disagree with X" and but your contrarian cap on.

No, I thought you meant what he does, in the things he is doing. I misread that you only meant the rhetoric.

Edit: It’s a flaw... I assume the best in people. It’s compensated by the fact that I’m relentless, if I feel crossed.

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You grossly underestimate trumps willingness and ability to create bullshit about an opponent out of thin air. And the willingness and ability of his duped cultists to swallow it.

How so? By pointing out what he is doing? Yes... I am sure in the future there will be more bullshit, which is true for Bernie as well. But, at the present time, Trump is attacking Biden based on him and Bernie being a Democrats.

[announced]

Nick Cordero just died of Covid... Fox News is the only source not reporting the cause in the title. He was 41...

You mean this one? Nick Cordero dead at 41 after coronavirus battle, wife Amanda Kloots announces

link https://www.fox35orlando.com/news/ni...oots-announces

Also i think you are in the wrong thread, unless this somehow relates to the general election.

[Felya]

You mean this one? Nick Cordero dead at 41 after coronavirus battle, wife Amanda Kloots announces

link https://www.fox35orlando.com/news/ni...oots-announces

Also i think you are in the wrong thread, unless this somehow relates to the general election.

No, it was their official site, not the local version. But, don’t worry, the official site has been updated as well.

It relates to the general election, because there is a pandemic going on, with the incumbent using Fox News as a MAGA phone, to downplay its effects. Trump supporters may not like it, but 130k dead due to a virus, is an election issue.

[Endus]

While it's super tempting to take 5 minutes to link you dozens of sources and quotes pointing out all the ways Bernie is far more economically left, and thus more likely to help black people as a whole, than Biden is, I think i'll pass.

I said supported, what a future senate does or does not do has nothing to do with my quote that I asked if he disagreed with.

The Senate is, to a pretty significant extent, the big fight. The presidency is just the round girl parading around in her daisy dukes.

The President has some broad powers when it comes to interpreting existing practice on extant legislation, but he has essentially no capacity to create new legislation. He controls the wiggle room in the laws that already exist, he cannot do anything (directly) to change existing law or introduce new law.

To pick an example; universal healthcare. A Bernie presidency can step up the support for Obamacare and make sure it's not defunded inappropriately, sure. But that's about it. Bernie would not have any real capacity to effect any introduction of universal healthcare reform into the USA's legislative framework. Simply can't, as President. He can talk about how great it would be, but it's up to Congress. And in practice, to whoever owns the Senate, because we've seen that McConnell will dick around and just not even push bills to a vote if he doesn't like 'em.

Ironically, Sanders can accomplish more, in this respect, as a Senator, than he ever could as President. Then he's one vote as opposed to zero votes, and he can introduce bills, where the President can't.

And that's all without even delving into how you apparently think you understand black people's interests better than black voters, which is such patriarchal racist ding-dong nonsense that it's laughable as all hell that you're going to pretend you give any shits at all about their interests, other than as a tool to swing the vote the way you want it to swing.

[Benggaul]

it's hilarious that people think biden would win.

It's hilarious that people think any of Biden's "gaffes" are any worse than anything that ever comes out of Trump's puckered asshole lips. Reading transcripts from his speeches is like listening to a 4-year old explain a dream.

[cubby]

It's hilarious that people think any of Biden's "gaffes" are any worse than anything that ever comes out of Trump's puckered asshole lips. Reading transcripts from his speeches is like listening to a 4-year old explain a dream.

Trumpsters don't have much to peddle any more. Their Dear Leader is a confirmed liar, felon, and also happens to be a traitor to his country. The amount of willful ignorance required to continue to support such a buffoon automatically disqualifies them from the adult table.

Lil Thera's quips are beyond adorable, as he desperately looks for any kind of salvation while the country crumbles around him due to the void of leadership in the White House.

[Omega10]

It's hilarious that people think any of Biden's "gaffes" are any worse than anything that ever comes out of Trump's puckered asshole lips. Reading transcripts from his speeches is like listening to a 4-year old explain a dream.

I am not at all surprised that Trump supporters are trying this line of attack. It's about all they got. It is EXTREMELY weak for the reasons you summarized here.

Anecdotally, the "Creepy Joe" and "Sleepy Joe" lines of attack are definitely mobilizing people who hate Trump to be politically active. The "But her emails" line that was successful in electing Trump has cost the US tens of thousands of lives and harmed the US in many other ways as well. People are VERY aware of this. People are terrified that "Creepy Joe" or "Sleepy Joe" will have the same effect, and are pushing back as much as they can.

It is very important that we push back against this crap every step of the way. Just like you did here

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Trumpsters don't have much to peddle any more. Their Dear Leader is a confirmed liar, felon, and also happens to be a traitor to his country. The amount of willful ignorance required to continue to support such a buffoon automatically disqualifies them from the adult table.

Lil Thera's quips are beyond adorable, as he desperately looks for any kind of salvation while the country crumbles around him due to the void of leadership in the White House.

Completely agree with this. One of the interesting issues is: how do you deal with family members that are 100% behind Trump. A lot of these Trump supporters are going to be quite surprised when their family members don't let them get away with their crap anymore.

[Benggaul]

Completely agree with this. One of the interesting issues is: how do you deal with family members that are 100% behind Trump. A lot of these Trump supporters are going to be quite surprised when their family members don't let them get away with their crap anymore.

I flat-out told a cousin of mine to lose my number. It bothered me that he voted for Trump in 2016, but when in 2017 he continued spouting absolute bullshit as if it were fact purely because he heard Trump--or propaganda network FOX "News"--report it I slapped him with facts backed up with sources and he told me it was all "deep state" shit. I told him then and there that if he refuses to live in reality then he shouldn't ever ask for my help again and in fact should just not try to call or write to me again, ever.

He has since tried. I haven't answered. We'll see if he's learned his lesson in November. He doesn't have to vote for Biden, but if he votes for Trump again--despite the fact that Trump is the reason he lost his job, lost his prospect for a job overseas and is currently worrying about whether or not his healthcare will disappear--then as far as I'm concerned he's too fucking stupid to be human, let alone a relation.

[D Luniz]

Until we get closer to the election, and the right concocts some ridiculous nonsense about Biden specifically designed to scare right wing idiots.

Theyve been trying already

most driving that he's backed by China, and still some occasional muttering about Ukraine

[cubby]

Completely agree with this. One of the interesting issues is: how do you deal with family members that are 100% behind Trump. A lot of these Trump supporters are going to be quite surprised when their family members don't let them get away with their crap anymore.

It's going to be VERY tough. Despite our both our desire and our earning of being downright gleeful if/when Trumps hens come home to roost, when it comes to family members, the big question is if you want to salvage your relationship with them. If you, as I do, then we're going to have to have a LOT of patience - think parent-to-a-toddler level - with these people. They are going to need an "out" as well, something they can blame for their continued support. Now, the good news is a lot of these family members are older people, and their reason for Trump support comes from their lack of news diversity.

But it's going to be hard.

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I flat-out told a cousin of mine to lose my number. It bothered me that he voted for Trump in 2016, but when in 2017 he continued spouting absolute bullshit as if it were fact purely because he heard Trump--or propaganda network FOX "News"--report it I slapped him with facts backed up with sources and he told me it was all "deep state" shit. I told him then and there that if he refuses to live in reality then he shouldn't ever ask for my help again and in fact should just not try to call or write to me again, ever.

He has since tried. I haven't answered. We'll see if he's learned his lesson in November. He doesn't have to vote for Biden, but if he votes for Trump again--despite the fact that Trump is the reason he lost his job, lost his prospect for a job overseas and is currently worrying about whether or not his healthcare will disappear--then as far as I'm concerned he's too fucking stupid to be human, let alone a relation.

The thing is, and I truly hate to say this, but if we can salvage these types of people, if Biden wins and we can at the same time salvage our country, we should. Because if we don't try to bring them back into the fold, some other fucking nut bag will grab them, and they will be lost again - possibly forever. While c'est la vie might be your initial reaction, as would mine, on the long term goals we might want to try to keep them, if possible.

But as your cousins acts, and others parrot, some might be truly lost.