Mega-Thread: 2020 United States General Election

[Edge-]

I get what Clinton (Bill) accomplished before all his dirt came to surface but why does the DNC still parade him around in 2020 why claiming to be against everything he did in the next breath?

Because he's still a living president.

Because despite younger, more online progressives with no attachment to him pretty rightfully thinking he's a creepy old dinosaur who should be dropped off at a care facility exclusively staffed by men, he's still extremely popular amongst moderate Democrats and middle aged/older Democrats. And like it or not, they still make up a huge chunk of the party.

This is the kinda thing Bernie's been getting at for a while. He's an unabashed crusader for his ideals, and that's extremely praiseworthy. But he's also a realist that, having been an outsider with his ideas for a long time, knows that he can't get his way much of the time and that there are compromises that he can make to move things in his direction. Wheeling out Clinton every 4 years for him to lay that 'ol Southern twang on us to excite the hell outta a bunch of older, more moderate folks is one of those things.

- - - Updated - - -

So? Ted Bundy also had charisma.

Ted Bundy does not have the charisma Clinton does. Nor does Clinton have the rapsheet Bundy does. Nor is Bundy a living former POTUS.

Clinton was in Epstein's bubble just like Trump, that's why the two used to be friends with one another.

A lot of people were, and I agree that's pretty fuckin gross. But like it or not, that's not a crime, and Clinton remains pretty fuckin popular amongst Democrats overall. Not the younger progressives though, who have no real connection with him.

If the 2020 DNC faced any previous incarnation of the GOP it would get bodied. Thankful the GOP is at its lowest, and only partly due to the DNC letting them get away with putting forth more and more garbage each cycle.

Because the 2020 DNC is running this specifically to try to counter this GOP. That's why they're making the plays for the moderate Republicans to try to get disaffected Trump voters and moderate conservatives who think Trump is fuckin gross and live in swing states or states Trump flipped. I'm not super thrilled with the strategy as a more lefty kinda guy, but I see where they're coming from with this.

[Machismo]

Fucking hell. No.

You really need to stop trying to re-brand the Iraq war as a good thing if you corporate democrats are trying to convince any one you aren't as bad or even worse than Trump's supporters. Showing vague signs of doubt occasionally about murdering foreigners is one of a few things that can be said for Trump.

Where did I do that?

You seem to be reading shit that I'm not typing. You should see to that.

- - - Updated - - -

He also had one delegate vote from a democrat in WA. A Hillary delegate picked him instead...

- - - Updated - - -



Trump has more than doubled drone strikes since Obama and let Turkey massacre Kurds, while selling Saudi Arabia weapons to bomb Libya. Stop defending war mongers...

Meh, that's a problem with the EC, and an entirely different issue.

- - - Updated - - -

Did he thought? Because my memory isn't that he bucked them or they booted him specifically, and this appears to be accurate based on reports at the time - https://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS...ell/index.html



To your point he did work on trying to help Iraq following the war by building an international coalition and he's repeatedly expressed remorse for his involvement. But honestly, I don't much give a shit and I don't think a lot of other liberals/progressives and Democrats do either. He's still ultimately responsible for his direct role in selling the war in Iraq. Just like no matter how many paintings of immigrants George W. Bush Jr. paints or how many adorable moments of him sneaking candy to Michelle Obama are caught on camera, he's still responsible. No matter how many photo's of Dick Cheney wearing a mask get posted, he's still responsible (for all the torture, as well).



https://theintercept.com/2018/02/06/...e-told-the-un/

I know Powell has been trying to rehab his image hard since then, but I'm not buying it.

The issue with them booting him, was that he stopped toeing the line, so the replaced him with Rice.

He was one of the first people to stop the undying loyalty, and actually question the actions. His hands still have plenty of blood on them, but I think he's far less culpable than the likes of Cheney and his fucking cabal.

- - - Updated - - -

I am not and have never defended Trump. I have said many times that he is worse than Biden on certain issues. This is like saying Hitler is worse than Stalin in some ways. It doesn't mean you like Hitler.

You know this, but you act all fucking dumb because the only plausible argument for electing a senile old reactionary rapist like Biden is that he isn't Trump.

You long said they were the exact same... you really should stop confusing all the burners.

[Draco-Onis]

Well,

Considering CNN somehow managed to twist a 21 point loss for Biden since Kamala's appointment, as a great positive for Biden/Kamala,

Do you have any links to this poll to back it up? a 21 point loss for Biden means Trump is now leading by double digits and has the highest approval rating of his presidency by far crossing the 50% threshold which he never has.

[DarkTZeratul]

Yes, it was a CNN poll. Just follow the quote trail back to where it was made a few pages ago.

It was a 21 point loss among non-white voters, only a ~10 point loss overall iirc.

Here I'll make it easier for you:

https://twitter.com/PpollingNumbers/...55505564966912

A CNN poll shows a 10 point shift towards Trump right after Kamala was chosen as VP.

https://twitter.com/PpollingNumbers/...970909185?s=20

And a 21 point shift towards Trump among non-white voters the days right after Kamala was chosen as VP.

Non-white voters:
Biden 63% (-11)
Trump 31% (+10)


How anyone could twist that as a big positive, like CNN did by obfuscating the numbers in their article and just throwing out random opinions on the poll results (while trying to avoid referring to the actual poll numbers as much as possible) is a mystery to all. I mean, leading by 63 tot 31 is still a great result, but it's also still a massive loss to go from a 53 point lead down to a 32 point lead among non-white voters.

So not an actual poll, but a third party claiming that a poll they won't link to says this.

[Draco-Onis]

Yes, it was a CNN poll. Just follow the quote trail back to where it was made a few pages ago.

It was a 21 point loss among non-white voters, only a ~10 point loss overall iirc.

Here I'll make it easier for you:

https://twitter.com/PpollingNumbers/...55505564966912

A CNN poll shows a 10 point shift towards Trump right after Kamala was chosen as VP.

https://twitter.com/PpollingNumbers/...970909185?s=20

And a 21 point shift towards Trump among non-white voters the days right after Kamala was chosen as VP.

Non-white voters:
Biden 63% (-11)
Trump 31% (+10)


How anyone could twist that as a big positive, like CNN did by obfuscating the numbers in their article and just throwing out random opinions on the poll results (while trying to avoid referring to the actual poll numbers as much as possible) is a mystery to all. I mean, leading by 63 tot 31 is still a great result, but it's also still a massive loss to go from a 53 point lead down to a 32 point lead among non-white voters.

I saw that poll here is the original data

https://cdn.cnn.com/cnn/2020/images/08/16/rel8a.-.2020.pdf

The dates are 8/12-8/15 that's not enough space between the announcement of Kamala to even get solid data. As of now it is an outlier but Trump v. Biden will narrow as we get closer to the election so everything you said is wrong.

[Draco-Onis]

You're welcome to look a bit further than your noses are long and find out that the source is a non-partisan organization that openly posts all their polls available for the public on their site: https://projects.jhkforecasts.com/pr...tial-forecast/ (and that CNN constantly refers to their polls).

Actually that site is off the odds of Trump winning according to the data is 29% around the same as Hillary during that time.

[Felya]

You're welcome to look a bit further than your noses are long and find out that the source is a non-partisan organization that openly posts all their polls available for the public on their site: https://projects.jhkforecasts.com/pr...tial-forecast/ (and that CNN constantly refers to their polls).

No, the unverified account on Twitter you linked, is not referencing the numbers on the site you linked.

- - - Updated - - -

Actually that site is off the odds of Trump winning according to the data is 29% around the same as Hillary during that time.

The numbers don’t match the tweets...

[Draco-Onis]

The numbers don’t match the tweets...

I linked the poll above and he is wrong but one should expect the numbers to close. I will state this if anyone thinks this was going to be easy you haven't been paying attention to the average American in the last 4 years. These are the same people who gained 15lbs in a pandemic that kills obese people, this is the time to be a cynic every vote counts.

[Felya]

I linked the poll above and he is wrong but one should expect the numbers to close. I will state this if think this was going to be easy you haven't been paying attention to the average American in the last 4 years. These are the same people who gained 15lbs in a pandemic that kills obese people, this is the time to be a cynic every vote counts.

It’s why I keep calling him out... If I wasn’t a cynic, I wouldn’t have a problem with people discouraging voting... well... I would likely have a major problem with constant lying, no matter what.

[Felya]

Finally someone who gets it.

You are discouraging people from voting.

The Democratic Party seems to be expecting full complacency again though and is attacking every source that dares claim that the elections aren't a 100% certain win for Biden. Or that not every day the polls are heading in the right direction...

The issue is that your claim is fraud... you want people to believe your lies, because they fit a narrative? But... here is the truth...

Yesterday, AOC and Abrams spoke at DNC... 2 days ago, Bernie spoke at the DNC. In those 2 days you didn’t quote or mention anything they said, but have obfuscated information pretty much directly from Trump’s twitter.

Edit: Simple question... Is Trump claiming to be winning in polls, to make his supporters complacent? Maybe something else in play?

[Draco-Onis]

Edit: Simple question... Is Trump claiming to be winning in polls, to make his supporters complacent? Maybe something else in play?

Nah Trump is simple moron his ego won't let him say he is losing even when he was behind by a wide margin he claimed he was winning.

[Felya]

Nah Trump is simple moron his ego won't let him say he is losing even when he was behind by a wide margin he claimed he was winning.

It’s to make him seem palatable. His whole shtick is based on creating a faux representation of success. It’s to make people on the fence, question if they are making the right choice. He isn’t the first to use ‘silent majority’...

[JohnBrown1917]

I get what Clinton (Bill) accomplished before all his dirt came to surface but why does the DNC still parade him around in 2020 why claiming to be against everything he did in the next breath?

Because they do not care. You can do whatever as long you do not oppose corperate interests. that he went to Epsteins child rape island is of no concern.

[Draco-Onis]

It’s to make him seem palatable. His whole shtick is based on creating a faux representation of success. It’s to make people on the fence, question if they are making the right choice. He isn’t the first to use ‘silent majority’...

Pretty much this is the guy who is still playing a successful business men after a lifetime of comical failures. It also says that even if he loses he will never concede, he said as much the other day " the only way I can lose is if they cheat".

[Felya]

Because they do not care. You can do whatever as long you do not oppose corperate interests. that he went to Epsteins child rape island is of no concern.

Who is they? Bill Clinton has cross party appeal and hold one of the most favorable, public perceptions of any democrat. He is popular... simple as that...

[Shadowferal]

I get what Clinton (Bill) accomplished before all his dirt came to surface but why does the DNC still parade him around in 2020 why claiming to be against everything he did in the next breath?

representing "better times" and ties to well-monied interests

[Thekri]

Who is they? Bill Clinton has cross party appeal and hold one of the most favorable, public perceptions of any democrat. He is popular... simple as that...

I know, and I get why the democrats are trotting him out, they want to win after all. However, @JohnBrown1917 has a very valid point here, it is entirely legitimate to be extremely uncomfortable with it, and this is the sort of thing that is entirely valid to call Clinton out on. Epstien's private plane, which Clinton traveled on numerous times was called the "Lolita Express" for crying out loud. That is a pretty obvious tell that the dude is a pedo. It is like ordering your meat from the "Donner Party Grill" and being surprised when it turns out to be homeless people.

Look, Bill Clinton did plenty of good stuff, but the shit he accepted, endorsed, and participated in in regards to women is something I compare to our founding fathers issues with Slavery. Yeah, he still deserves credit for the good stuff he did, but it is absolutely legitimate for calling him out on that bullshit, and making it clear that is no longer acceptable for anyone to act the way he has done his whole life. I want the democrats to win as well, but trotting out someone with Bill Clinton's record is going to leave a really sour taste in some peoples mouth, and it is totally ok to point that out.

[JohnBrown1917]

representing "better times" and ties to well-monied interests

Ah, child rape, the true height of 'better times'.


For the elite, that is. Are they trying to trick Trump into voting for the dems?

- - - Updated - - -

The Obama's calling Harvey Weinstein a wonderful human being and great friend is also up there in the realm of questionable stuff. Luckily they didn't bring him in to talk at the DNC.

Don't worry, that is why they got the former staff members of the Bush adminstration.

[Felya]

I know, and I get why the democrats are trotting him out, they want to win after all. However, @JohnBrown1917 has a very valid point here, it is entirely legitimate to be extremely uncomfortable with it, and this is the sort of thing that is entirely valid to call Clinton out on. Epstien's private plane, which Clinton traveled on numerous times was called the "Lolita Express" for crying out loud. That is a pretty obvious tell that the dude is a pedo. It is like ordering your meat from the "Donner Party Grill" and being surprised when it turns out to be homeless people.

Look, Bill Clinton did plenty of good stuff, but the shit he accepted, endorsed, and participated in in regards to women is something I compare to our founding fathers issues with Slavery. Yeah, he still deserves credit for the good stuff he did, but it is absolutely legitimate for calling him out on that bullshit, and making it clear that is no longer acceptable for anyone to act the way he has done his whole life. I want the democrats to win as well, but trotting out someone with Bill Clinton's record is going to leave a really sour taste in some peoples mouth, and it is totally ok to point that out.

I’m being pretty indifferent to it, just explaining why he is popular. It has nothing to do with policy, but the continued sentiment from his impeachment.

- - - Updated - - -

Ah, child rape, the true height of 'better times'.

For the elite, that is. Are they trying to trick Trump into voting for the dems?

No more a trick, than MAGA... but, with an actual time line. It has nothing to do with elites... on the contrary... Bill Clinton has populist appeal. He played the sax on tv show, eats at McDonald’s and is a good ol’ boy from Arkansas.

[downnola]

I know, and I get why the democrats are trotting him out, they want to win after all. However, @JohnBrown1917 has a very valid point here, it is entirely legitimate to be extremely uncomfortable with it, and this is the sort of thing that is entirely valid to call Clinton out on. Epstien's private plane, which Clinton traveled on numerous times was called the "Lolita Express" for crying out loud. That is a pretty obvious tell that the dude is a pedo. It is like ordering your meat from the "Donner Party Grill" and being surprised when it turns out to be homeless people.

Look, Bill Clinton did plenty of good stuff, but the shit he accepted, endorsed, and participated in in regards to women is something I compare to our founding fathers issues with Slavery. Yeah, he still deserves credit for the good stuff he did, but it is absolutely legitimate for calling him out on that bullshit, and making it clear that is no longer acceptable for anyone to act the way he has done his whole life. I want the democrats to win as well, but trotting out someone with Bill Clinton's record is going to leave a really sour taste in some peoples mouth, and it is totally ok to point that out.

Like what? I'm not being a smart ass, I just remember Clinton pushing conservative policies and moving the Democratic party to the right by stealing the Republican platform (leading them to take on even more reactionary policies in response) while Democrats cheered him on because he won elections. His popularity among Democrats has always baffled me.