Mega-Thread: 2020 United States General Election

[Machismo]

Hit him with Hungary and Poland

Those countries have basically abandoned democracy. Also Italy is so dysfunctional they can't even keep their economy running even without pandemics

All that would do, would mean he'd have to move goalposts... again. At some point, he'd ask for something from the Germany region of Germany.

[Grimbold21]

There are words for that: fascism, cowardice, subservience, lack of freedom.

Take your pick.

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Hey look what we found here.

Video footage of Biden ranting about "illegals" and urging for there to be built a border wall with Mexico:



BLUE MAGA!

How does it feel to write something that doesn't match what is said in the video?

[Machismo]

I literally can't follow your train of thought.

I already stated that it was off-topic / irrelevant to the thread.

But no, I literally don't know any modern leader of a western nation who has less morals than Trump or is more corrupt than Trump. Even if I added a few decades of recent history in it, there isn't a single case.

So let's end this little off-topic thread on that note, hm?

But you can try defend Trump if you really think it's necessary... But then ask yourself, who is the real "Trumpster" here?

You asked, and I answered... then you moved goalposts.

It's not that difficult to keep up, you are being called out for being disingenuous and intellectually dishonest.

Was I not clear enough?

So, as to your claim... I'm going to go ahead and ask you to back it up... mmmkay.

Some dude from some random country preaching that we are Trumpsters if we do not violently overthrow our president... refuses to even say where he's from. I can only hope you are in the process of your rebellion as we speak. If you have a Patreon, I'll gladly send some cash for molotov cocktails for your cause. Hit me up.

[Endus]

Sure, I'll give you that one. Not immediately what I'd understand under a "modern nation", but sure.

Know any modern western ones?

If you're gonna make an accusation against "modern nations", meaning every extant country in the modern world, don't pretend it's unreasonable to get called out on it. Just admit you misspoke and meant "developed nations". Which Saudi Arabia wouldn't qualify as. It also lets you avoid the ethnocentric "western" label, since you'd be including Japan at least in that list, and arguably Turkey, South Korea, and Singapore as well (there's uncertainty, some rank them as developed, others not).

What you're doing here is essentially moving goalposts. You misspoke. Just own up to it and rephrase.

(I'll note that if Turkey's included, Erdogan probably tops Trump, FWIW).

[Machismo]

You sure sound pretty fucking xenophobic for someone who doesn't like Trump.

That's because you are deliberately misinterpreting what I have to say. Then again, you are new here, so you don't know about my hatred for racists and xenophobes. I invite you to enjoy looking through my long post history as evidence. In thos eposts, you will not that I actually welcomed that poster to move to my country, and you are also welcome to move here.

Welcome to the site!!!

[Machismo]

It hardly matters what is in the video. Biden's longstanding support of segregation and ties to white supremacists are a matter of public record and not contested by any one.

You sound just like the guy who was swearing that the Republicans and Democrats have identical policy platforms.

Anyways, that's a bold claim you are making, could you provide some evidence?

[Machismo]

Are you actually too stupid to read his biography? It is really not difficult to type things into google. Should I wipe your arse for you also?

Well, it is your claim. It's not up to me to back up your claims for you. That would be an attempt to shift burden of evidence:

https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/...urden-of-Proof

P.S. He's got multiple biographies... did you have a favorite in mind?

[Grimbold21]

It hardly matters what is in the video. Biden's longstanding support of segregation and ties to white supremacists are a matter of public record and not contested by any one.

Come back on your proper account.

[Machismo]

It is not a claim, it is something that no one is contesting. Something that is self-evident and uncontested does not require proof. You do not have to explain that 2+2 =4 to intelligent people.

But, since you seem to be stupid to google, From wikipedia:

In the mid-1970s, Biden was one of the Senate's leading opponents of desegregation busing. His white Delaware constituents strongly opposed it, and such opposition nationwide later led his party to mostly abandon school desegregation policies.

This, along with the prospect of a busing plan in Wilmington, led Biden to align himself with civil rights opponent Senator Jesse Helms (R-NC) in opposing busing. Biden and anti-busing senators wanted to limit the scope of Title VI of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 with respect to the federal government's power to enforce school integration policies.[80]

So... not for decades... I'd hardly call that longstanding. That was before I was even born, and I'm old as shit.

Which biography am I supposed to be buying off of Amazon right now?

Edit:

You seemed to skip part of that wiki, so I wanted to post the entire thing. I'd hate for you to look disingenuous:

In the mid-1970s, Biden was one of the Senate's leading opponents of desegregation busing. His white Delaware constituents strongly opposed it, and such opposition nationwide later led his party to mostly abandon school desegregation policies.[80]

In his first Senate campaign, Biden expressed support for the Supreme Court's 1971 Swann decision, which supported busing programs to integrate school districts to remedy de jure segregation, but opposed it to remedy de facto segregation, as in Delaware. He said Republicans were using busing as a scare tactic to court Southern white votes, and along with Boggs voiced opposition to a House of Representatives constitutional amendment banning busing.[81] In 1974, Biden voted to table an amendment to an omnibus education bill promoted by Edward Gurney (R-FL) that contained anti-busing measures and anti-school desegregation clauses. In May, Senator Robert Griffin (R-MI) attempted to revive an amended version of the amendment. Minority Leader Hugh Scott (R-PA) and Majority Leader Mike Mansfield (D-MT) offered to leave the text of Griffin's amendment intact but add the qualifier that such legislation was not intended to weaken the judiciary's power to enforce the 5th and 14th Amendments of the U.S. Constitution. Biden voted for this compromise, angering his local voters.[82]

Following this, some Delaware residents met at the Krebs School in Newport to protest integration. Biden spoke to the auditorium and said his position on school busing was evolving, emphasizing that busing in Delaware was in his opinion beyond court restrictions. The crowd was unconvinced, and heckled him until he yielded the microphone.[83] This, along with the prospect of a busing plan in Wilmington, led Biden to align himself with civil rights opponent Senator Jesse Helms (R-NC) in opposing busing. Biden and anti-busing senators wanted to limit the scope of Title VI of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 with respect to the federal government's power to enforce school integration policies.[80] After 1975, Biden took a harsher line on further legislative action to limit busing.[67] That year, Helms proposed an anti-integration amendment to an education bill that would stop the Department of Health, Education, and Welfare (HEW) from collecting data about students' or teachers' races and thereby prevent it from defunding districts that refused to integrate. Biden supported this amendment, saying: "I am sure it comes as a surprise to some of my colleagues ... that a senator with a voting record such as mine stands up and supports" it.[84] He said busing was a "bankrupt idea [that violated] the cardinal rule of common sense", and that his opposition would make it easier for other liberals to follow suit.[67] But he had also supported integrationist Senator Edward Brooke's (R-MA) initiatives on housing, job opportunities and voting rights.[82] Civil rights lawyer and NAACP Legal Defense Fund director Jack Greenberg criticized Biden's support for the bill, saying it "heave[d] a brick through the window of school integration", with Biden's hand on the brick.[85]

Biden supported a measure Senator Robert Byrd (D-WV) sponsored that forbade the use of federal funds to transport students beyond their closest school. This was adopted as part of the Labor-HEW Appropriations Act of 1976. In 1977, Biden co-sponsored an amendment with Thomas Eagleton (D-MO) to close loopholes in Byrd's amendment. A 1977 status report on school desegregation by the federal Civil Rights Commission in Washington, D.C., said, "the enactment of Eagleton-Biden would be an actual violation, on the part of the Federal Government, of the fifth amendment and Title VI" of the Civil Rights Act.[86] President Carter signed the amendment into law in 1978.[87] Biden repeatedly asked for, and received, the support of Senator James Eastland (D-MS) on anti-busing measures

[Zaktar]

If it becomes credible, I am all for Biden dropping out, with the stipulation that Trump has to as well.

So Trump and his followers' choices dictate yours? Surely we can do better.

[Milchshake]

If it becomes credible, I am all for Biden dropping out, with the stipulation that Trump has to as well.

Also if Bernie becomes the nom...

2 days later a woman will come forward and accuse Bernie of bad conduct. He must drop out as well.


These twitter leftist should be wary when casting stones. Especially when it's rightwing ratfuckers handing them the stones.

[Felya]

When you don't vote you might give whomever has the most votes a bit of an indirect bump. But why are you so certain that Trump would get the most votes?

No, you are simply choosing the necessary evil for your moral indignation.

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That would be 1996. It is hardly ancient history.

Who was the third party between Doll and Clinton? Please show me...

It isn't as hard as Americans keep making out. What mainly stops it happening is people mythologizing its impossibility.

What third party got 5% of the popular vote in 1996?

[Zaktar]

Also if Bernie becomes the nom...

2 days later a woman will come forward and accuse Bernie of bad conduct. He must drop out as well.


These twitter leftist should be wary when casting stones. Especially when it's rightwing ratfuckers handing them the stones.

An accusation doesn't warrant dropping out, a genuinely credible story does - and I'd say the same for Sanders or any candidate. We're not there for Biden, but the story is still developing, and has already been corroborated to a disturbing degree. There is still reasonable doubt, but that's what we should be hanging our hope on, not "we won't stop being awful unless Trump does."

[Felya]

And you're defending a rapist.

You are defending a serial rapist...

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An accusation doesn't warrant dropping out, a genuinely credible story does - and I'd say the same for Sanders or any candidate. We're not there for Biden, but the story is still developing, and has already been corroborated to a disturbing degree. There is still reasonable doubt, but that's what we should be hanging our hope on, not "we won't stop being awful unless Trump does."

We also shouldn’t be pretending that the alternative is a solution that in any way matches the indignation.

[zealo]

"Why won't Americans remove their presidents violently?"

Yeah. Europeans on this thread are wild

Thankfully, that sort of view is a fringe position on this side of the pond too, it's just that the internet allows lone nutters to congregate together.

More radical leftism, the sort about violent revolution, is not doing all that well in Europe either.

[Felya]

Also if Bernie becomes the nom...

He can’t... a run off is not given and as we are about to hear about Ross Perrot, it’s too late for third party.

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So Trump and his followers' choices dictate yours? Surely we can do better.

That’s not dictated by Trump... it’s the only logical way to not directly or indirectly help the criminal here. Not voting or voting third party, will not result in a pure president. What’s the point of pretending that one way or the other, you are protecting some moral fiber?

[Zaktar]

You are defending a serial rapist...

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We also shouldn’t be pretending that the alternative is a solution that in any way matches the indignation.

The chain of conversation goes back to a hypothetical in which this gets worse, that the accusation becomes credible. A couple people have said, basically, that Trump is worse so oh well, too bad, so sad, we move on no matter what. If it's credible, his dropping out would be a solution which matches the scope of the problem. For the umpteenth time we're not there and probably won't get there, the story has reasonable doubt and is unlikely to get worse, which doesn't do much to change the math for the election.

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He can’t... a run off is not given and as we are about to hear about Ross Perrot, it’s too late for third party.

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That’s not dictated by Trump... it’s the only logical way to not directly or indirectly help the criminal here. Not voting or voting third party, will not result in a pure president. What’s the point of pretending that one way or the other, you are protecting some moral fiber?

So if you've followed the conversation I already said that if presented with the choice, even if the allegation becomes credible, I'll grudgingly vote for Biden. My only point is that if it becomes credible now he needs to drop out and give us the chance to pick a viable candidate.

[Levelfive]

So Trump and his followers' choices dictate yours? Surely we can do better.

I am demanding better by demanding that both be held to the same standards, lest we continue to enable a situation where only one side abides by the rules. That's completely deranged and unsustainable. As we can now plainly see.

[Zaktar]

I am demanding better by demanding that both be held to the same standards, lest we continue to enable a situation where only one side abides by the rules. That's completely deranged and unsustainable. As we can now plainly see.

What's deranged and unsustainable is a system where no one abides by any rules.

[Levelfive]

What's deranged and unsustainable is a system where no one abides by any rules.

Hard disagree:

"We’re in the midst of a slow-motion unraveling of democracy in this country. If we don’t return the favor with some of this procedural war stuff, the only other option is to continue watching the other side do it. That’s not an acceptable option in my opinion.

I don’t think we can restore order by respecting rules that are not respected by Republicans. I do believe we’ll have to find a way to end this procedural war at some point, but now is not that time. Republicans need to know what it’s like to be on the other end of normative violations. The Republicans are behaving like a party that believes it will never be held accountable for anything they’re doing, and so far they haven’t been.

That has to change before we can fix this mess."

https://www.vox.com/2018/5/1/1725886...trump-election