Mega-Thread: 2020 United States General Election

[Levelfive]

Interesting. I'm less interested in the fact that she talked up Biden (irrelevant IMO), but if those people have paper trails indicating her dishonest and attempts to manipulate them then is calls her character, and account, into question.

This is the kind of deeper background that should have been done before the story broke, and it's the kind of deeper background you often saw with other #MeToo stories.

If these people who knew her have records, especially legal documents, that support their stories, then this isn't some "smear" attempt against Reade. It's important information to present her claims in a more complete context.

I think it was done--I think that's precisely why news outlets were reluctant to run it. I said before the media have actually been treating her with kid gloves, and this is exactly why.

[Telogrus]

Bernie: *makes a nuanced comment about Castro*

Democrats: “You might as well tell Cubans not to vote for you, you fucking idiot!”

Biden: “Don’t vote for me.”

Democrats: “Biden is so mature!”

[Thepersona]

Bernie: *makes a nuanced comment about Castro*

Democrats: “You might as well tell Cubans not to vote for you, you fucking idiot!”

Biden: “Don’t vote for me.”

Democrats: “Biden is so mature!”

Bernie made said nuanced comment about castro. The problem is, even with said nuance, that makes you lose FL

[Felya]

Bernie: *makes a nuanced comment about Castro*

Democrats: “You might as well tell Cubans not to vote for you, you fucking idiot!”

Biden: “Don’t vote for me.”

Democrats: “Biden is so mature!”

You do know the nuance in what Biden said, was pretty much... ‘If you are not going to vote for me, why are you dedicating so much time to not voting for me’... I’ll let you guess what that nuance escaped you...

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Bernie made said nuanced comment about castro. The problem is, even with said nuance, that makes you lose FL

Remember, it’s democrats fault for saying Bernie can’t win Florida... it’s not what he is saying that’s handing GOP the victory. The problem is the democrats, not the candidate that will be using those words against Bernie. If they can’t handle democrats calling him an idiot for saying it, how would they have handled him being called a communist for it? Oh... that’s right... they thought Bernie was going to win, while being painted as a communist. As if Pelosi being called a communist by Newt Gingrich and spread by Fox today, was going to be different with Bernie.

Edit: Do Bernie supporters really think Trump was pushing him, because Bernie was the one time Trump had some sort of decency? Do you think perhaps the words that are coming out of Bernie’s mouth are playing directly into GOP rhetoric? When ‘open up’ protest are holding signs that Liberal is the new word for communist, would be helped by Bernie? Bernie supporters live in a bubble... just like Trump supporters.

[arandomuser]

Bernie in 2016 was a protest vote against clinton being female
and i know that opinion will get alot of hate but think about how joe was able to win every single county in michigan
And i dont want to hear no bullshit about " joe BideN doSenT cArE AboUt "WoRkErS"
https://www.reuters.com/article/auto...0JO0XU20131209

The federal bailout of General Motors Co, Chrysler and parts suppliers in 2009 saved 1.5 million U.S. jobs and preserved $105.3 billion in personal and social insurance tax collections, according to a study released on Monday."

1.5 million of them have jobs because of obamas stimlulus which if anyone has a memory remember republicans OPPOSED it.

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Bernie: *makes a nuanced comment about Castro*

Democrats: “You might as well tell Cubans not to vote for you, you fucking idiot!”

Biden: “Don’t vote for me.”

Democrats: “Biden is so mature!”

he said if people believed tara reade to not vote for him, to me thats a very principled stance.
I mean if you literally believed joe biden is a rapist, you wouldnt anyways, but as we know the people he needs to win "independents" based on their swing votes for trump dont care if there was TAPES of biden bragging about grabbing taras pussy

[Moilfast]

Bernie in 2016 was a protest vote against clinton being female
and i know that opinion will get alot of hate but think about how joe was able to win every single county in michigan
And i dont want to hear no bullshit about " joe BideN doSenT cArE AboUt "WoRkErS"

From your article: "The Bush and Obama administrations loaned the auto industry, including GM and Chrysler, which is now controlled by Italy’s Fiat, $80 billion to avoid the collapse of the industry that they felt would result in the loss of millions of U.S. jobs."

Very little to do with Biden.

We'll ignore the entire rest of Biden's history which he spent sucking wall st's dick and presiding over a huge transfer of wealth from worker to executive. Because he stood next to a black guy who did something good once.

[arandomuser]

he stood next to a black guy who did something good once.

this but unironically

[Felya]

We'll ignore the entire rest of Biden's history which he spent sucking wall st's dick and presiding over a huge transfer of wealth from worker to executive.

How did Biden, 1 of 535 congressional representatives, preside over this transfer of wealth? Trump tax cut, increased the gap between income tax collected and corporate tax collected, by 7% in favor of corporations. You are going to have to work a lot harder to not only convince me that Biden is responsible for anything similar, but why wouldn’t Trump do it again to save the economy from covid.

[Louisa Bannon]

This could be my final word on the whole Bernie Sanders thing...

I liked his policies, that's it. He wasn't a great candidate if only by the metric that he couldn't beat the guy that hasn't left his basement in weeks. He couldn't get tough with Biden when he needed to and kept calling Biden his friend. Was Bernie scamming people like myself? Was he torpedoed from within as has been suggested (his former advisers now being part of a Biden Super PAC)? It doesn't matter because unless Biden literally dies, this shit is over. In fairness to Sanders, I think the final truth may simply be that you can't do what he was trying to do from within the Democratic party. No one can dance that dance and make it work. The Dems no longer even want to represent working class people - it pretends to do so to get votes and then spends a lot of time telling everyone how their goals can't be achieved this time, but maybe next time. And so on, ad nauseam.

Between Biden and Trump, I simply do not care who wins. I'm not voting "Blue no matter who" because policies matter. I'm not voting for the Senator from MBNA FFS - that will never happen. For a comparison I could suggest I'd vote for Kamala Harris. Do I like her? No, she's a POS corporatist SF Dem machine creation - but between her and Trump I'd choose her because she doesn't have decades of shit she's pulled in congress like Biden has done. Biden's shit seriously pisses me off, and I don't have that problem with Harris. How do Dems not see this obvious problem? Well, one answer is the Dems, the ones that control the party, would rather kill the left in the party than win this election. I don't think the Dems are stupid, I think they have different motives than you and I. So, cui bono?

There's a good chance the U.S. is facing down the end of its empire. It happens to all such countries at some point. I see the great hollowing out of the people's economic clout. I see the ascendance of corporations as deathless, fictive persons with more rights than those of natural persons. Money talks. Full stop.

I now question if anything like a democracy (or democratic republic) can ever succeed because it assumes that the electorate is both intelligent and politically engaged, and I doubt most populations are either. Most people have their own private concerns and simply do what the media tells them to do. That's the extent of voter knowledge: I did what the guy on MSNBC, CNN, or Fox told me to do.

[Felya]

this but unironically

No, a VP is beneath the president, not next to. Biden was subservient, not next to...

[Louisa Bannon]

How did Biden, 1 of 535 congressional representatives, preside over this transfer of wealth?

I have to admit I don't take you very seriously because you're obviously VERY partisan. I posted a link to a list of Biden's many faults. I doubt you read it. But just because Biden had accomplices in all the fuckery in which he took part doesn't in any way absolve him of his record of opposing the middle-class in favor of doing the bidding of his corporate masters. Again, info at the link I posted before. Don't wanna read it, don't.

It's perfectly okay with me if we simply have different points of view, but to me you come across as at least a little blind to obvious problems with the Dems and their candidate.

I have yet to see with any specificity a list of things that Biden and the Dems now support such that they could prompt me to vote for them. Not being the other guy and only incrementally better than the GOP is just not enough.

[Felya]

In fairness to Sanders, I think the final truth may simply be that you can't do what he was trying to do from within the Democratic party.

You mean that Bernie can’t win a primary in the south, thus needs to be 3rd party? I don’t understand why Bernie losing, is a sign he will win. He can’t even win as a third party, due to not being on the ballot in a lot of states.

Between Biden and Trump, I simply do not care who wins.

Because issues never mattered...

I'm not voting "Blue no matter who" because policies matter. I'm not voting for the Senator from MBNA FFS - that will never happen. For a comparison I could suggest I'd vote for Kamala Harris. Do I like her? No, she's a POS corporatist SF Dem machine creation - but between her and Trump I'd choose her because she doesn't have decades of shit she's pulled in congress like Biden has done. Biden's shit seriously pisses me off, and I don't have that problem with Harris. How do Dems not see this obvious problem? Well, one answer is the Dems, the ones that control the party, would rather kill the left in the party than win this election.

You have not read Harris’s judicial history, have you? The people didn’t vote for Bernie, it might be time to realize that if you want policy, your tact is the problem. Since you will blame every democrat in office for Trump’s 4 or 8 years, when will this pure candidate ever come to pass?

I am sorry, if you are willing to set back your policy by another 4 years, instead of stagnating, policy doesn’t mean shit to you. You are willing to set your own policy demands back by 4 years, for nothing but indignation?

I don't think the Dems are stupid, I think they have different motives than you and I. So, cui bono?

Conspiracy theory isn’t intelligent...

There's a good chance the U.S. is facing down the end of its empire. It happens to all such countries at some point. I see the great hollowing out of the people's economic clout. I see the ascendance of corporations as deathless, fictive persons with more rights than those of natural persons. Money talks. Full stop.

Yet, when a corporation that swung tax collected by 7% from corporations to individual income tax, you choose to do nothing.

I now question if anything like a democracy (or democratic republic) can ever succeed because it assumes that the electorate is both intelligent and politically engaged, and I doubt most populations are either. Most people have their own private concerns and simply do what the media tells them to do. That's the extent of voter knowledge: I did what the guy on MSNBC, CNN, or Fox told me to do.

You can’t complain about political engagement, as someone claiming to not vote.

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I have to admit I don't take you very seriously because you're obviously VERY partisan.

I don’t care... It’s a gaming forum, I don’t take anyone seriously.

But, I have conversations with everyone, including free speech warriors that have be on ignore. I don’t fucking care if you are partisan. My arguments don’t hinge on your state of mind, but the merits presented within them.

I posted a link to a list of Biden's many faults. I doubt you read it. But just because Biden had accomplices in all the fuckery in which he took part doesn't in any way absolve him of his record of opposing the middle-class in favor of doing the bidding of his corporate masters. Again, info at the link I posted before. Don't wanna read it, don't.

Yes, Biden is a shit sandwich. I’m voting against Trump, not for Biden. I’m so partisan that you can read me dunking on Biden for hours in debate threads. But, that’s the problem you face with me... Unless you can demonize me as some partison, the merit of everything you say, is hollow. My existence makes your opinion seem meritless.

It's perfectly okay with me if we simply have different points of view, but to me you come across as at least a little blind to obvious problems with the Dems and their candidate.

Yeah, read my post history. Welcome everyone to do it... am I blind or is the person who would rather assume than have a discussion, is making a mistake? Try having a discussion, instead of forming baseless opinions, within your limited scope.

I have yet to see with any specificity a list of things that Biden and the Dems now support such that they could prompt me to vote for them. Not being the other guy and only incrementally better than the GOP is just not enough.

https://joebiden.com/joes-vision/

@Louisa Bannon for your next act, attack me for being a ‘never Trump’. Let’s have a discussion on merits of me, the ‘never Trump’ and you, the ‘never Biden’. Let’s see which one of us makes a better case. What do you think? I’ll start, I’m a never Trump, because I want the next president to reinstate Violence against women act.

[Louisa Bannon]

@ Felya

Um, get over yourself? Read your posting history? A lot of what you state just isn't that compelling. You just said your big thing is voting against the other guy. The link you offered is the main page for Biden's campaign. I think I have everything I need there.

The Dem puppetmasters are cynically insisting on propping up the least desirable candidate they could possibly have offered us, and I am simply not interested. Bill Maher suggested that voters had nowhere else to go, so sure the Dems give us the biggest piece of corporatist garbage in the party and make him the candidate. And I won't be voting for him, because I can't and won't hold my nose for him just because he's not the other guy. I will not vote for anyone whose purpose is to "counter schedule" into oblivion all of the policies I support.

FWIW, I did clarify the not voting thing. It was sloppy to state that just because I wouldn't be voting for either of the two main party candidates that I wouldn't be voting at all. I will likely vote Green. And I have stated that already.

[Endus]

The Dem puppetmasters are cynically insisting on propping up the least desirable candidate they could possibly have offered us

This kind of statement is unequivocally horseshit.

Biden is the presumptive candidate because Democratic voters preferred Biden to any other option, by a relatively wide margin. There were no "puppetmasters". Biden was, objectively speaking, the most desirable, as demonstrated by him garnering the most votes.

When you have to deliberately lie like this in trying to make your point, we can safely discard your point as complete bullshit.

[Felya]

Um, get over yourself? Read your posting history? A lot of what you state just isn't that compelling.

How would you know? Why is having a baseless opinion, justification?

You just said your big thing is voting against the other guy. The link you offered is the main page for Biden's campaign. I think I have everything I need there.

You asked for Democrat vision. That link was intended to show how empty your request was. I wasn’t going to explain it, because the point of just dropping the link, was to show how little effort goes behind your rhetoric. This reply just proves that your question, wasn’t actually a question.

Yeah, I will link Biden’s policy, if people ask for democrat vision. What should I have done? Complain that it doesn’t exist?

The Dem puppetmasters are cynically insisting on propping up the least desirable candidate they could possibly have offered us, and I am simply not interested. Bill Maher suggested that voters had nowhere else to go, so sure the Dems give us the biggest piece of corporatist garbage in the party and make him the candidate. And I won't be voting for him, because I can't and won't hold my nose for him just because he's not the other guy. I will not vote for anyone whose purpose is to "counter schedule" into oblivion all of the policies I support.

Yeah, I’m the puppet that’s ignoring current events, because Biden is so horrible. I’m sorry, I’m a never Trump and you will have a hard time convincing me, until at some point you can present Biden, as remotely similar to Trump. Your attacks on Biden are meaningless, because I’m not defending Biden, I’m attacking Trump. The merit for voting Biden, is what Trump is doing. You need to make Trump look better, because this tact just forces me to seem like I’m defend Biden, because you are ignoring Trump.

FWIW, I did clarify the not voting thing. It was sloppy to state that just because I wouldn't be voting for either of the two main party candidates that I wouldn't be voting at all. I will likely vote Green. And I have stated that already.

Yeah, you will vote green. Cool... convince me to do the same, by making the likely future with Trump, justified enough to not vote against him. Since you have convinced your self, tell me a way Trump winning, isn’t a big deal.

Edit: This convincing, now has to revolve around Trump being remotely close to Biden, in reaching the Green vision. Since you know green can’t win, you have to show that Trump will help their cause as bad as Biden.

[Louisa Bannon]

Ah, you think I care how you vote and I don't. If the Dems offered a candidate I could vote for, if they seriously adopted any of the policies I care about, then they'd get my vote. But this Biden thing has a terrible odor to it. I won't vote for him. Period.

Not really sure where I have ever tried to make Trump look good, that's a difficult task.

FWIW, I can't recall everything I've posted here but generally if you bothered to go look you'd discover I hate the GOP, I'm kind of a stickler for Due Process concerns, I don't support Identity Politics but I do champion alt lifestyle choices, I probably have watched too much Rachel Maddow, and I dislike the way the Dems have moved ever farther right of center.

Trying to stick with the Dems is like being a battered woman that won't leave the partner persecuting her. I am willing to leave.

[Muzjhath]

This could be my final word on the whole Bernie Sanders thing...

I liked his policies, that's it. He wasn't a great candidate if only by the metric that he couldn't beat the guy that hasn't left his basement in weeks. He couldn't get tough with Biden when he needed to and kept calling Biden his friend. Was Bernie scamming people like myself? Was he torpedoed from within as has been suggested (his former advisers now being part of a Biden Super PAC)? It doesn't matter because unless Biden literally dies, this shit is over. In fairness to Sanders, I think the final truth may simply be that you can't do what he was trying to do from within the Democratic party. No one can dance that dance and make it work. The Dems no longer even want to represent working class people - it pretends to do so to get votes and then spends a lot of time telling everyone how their goals can't be achieved this time, but maybe next time. And so on, ad nauseam.

Bold is just horseshit.
Sanders problem, what had always been his problem, was that he wasn't a part of the Democratic Party. He was generally just in an alliance with them. He couldn't affect change from within the party since he wasn't part of it.
So this whole paragraph doesn't make sense. If he had wanted to change the party, he would have been a member of it and worked for it. Not for himself.

[Felya]

@Louisa Bannon fuck this rabbit hole... let’s roll with the issues. This will be difficult, because Trump’s public service history is limited. Those are the two outcomes, so your voting green or not voting, has no barring on the actual result. It’s like you don’t exist in the context of making a choice between the two choices that can win. Issue time...

Based on their history, do you believe it is likely that Trump will save the economy again, but giving a massive tax cut on corporations? Do you think Biden is more likely to react with a universal coverage healthcare plan, not medicare for all, that can pass a likley Republican Senate? Do you think Biden will react with a focus on education, as listed in his plan, or on trickle down? Which issues can we compare Biden and Trump on, for you to show either is not a big deal. That Trump will act close enough to Biden.

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Ah, you think I care how you vote and I don't. If the Dems offered a candidate I could vote for, if they seriously adopted any of the policies I care about, then they'd get my vote. But this Biden thing has a terrible odor to it. I won't vote for him. Period.

No....... I specifically said I am asking, because you convinced your self. My whole diatribe, was about you not being able to convince me, so why would I ask you to try something moot? I am asking you to convince me, as you convinced your self. It has nothing to do with changing my mind, but how you formed your opinion.

Not really sure where I have ever tried to make Trump look good, that's a difficult task.

Didn’t say you did... I said that your attacks on Biden, while ignoring Trump, forces never Trumpers, regardless if they are conservatives or liberals or in between, to seem like they are defending Biden. Because regardless if you ignore him or not, people who are against Trump, will be defending Biden in context of attacking Trump.

FWIW, I can't recall everything I've posted here but generally if you bothered to go look you'd discover I hate the GOP, I'm kind of a stickler for Due Process concerns, I don't support Identity Politics but I do champion alt lifestyle choices, I probably have watched too much Rachel Maddow, and I dislike the way the Dems have moved ever farther right of center.

I don’t watch cable news... I’m not going to assume who you are, it doesn’t mater. I am addressing your opinion, based on its merit, not who you are. I’m old, but I’m not that old... lol

Trying to stick with the Dems is like being a battered woman that won't leave the partner persecuting her. I am willing to leave.

Yeah, 4 years of Trump... how is that battered woman doing now a day? Too bad GoP defunded violence against women act... might have assisted with persecution of the assailant. You know who sponsored it?

Edit: I keep forgetting how hip I am and I have a very hip image to uphold... ok... is this right? #policy

[Louisa Bannon]

But Trump doesn't act alone...

Do you see how silly some of your points are?

[Felya]

But Trump doesn't act alone...

Do you see how silly some of your points are?

Biden doesn’t act alone... He has Bernie, Harris, AOC and Warren in his “team”.

What specific point is silly? Dude... I posted like a novel... lol

Edit: When Age of Conan is on your side, how can you not win?