Mega-Thread: 2020 United States General Election

[Levelfive]

Sorry, pumpkin, I won't be able to see your no doubt worthwhile posts unless other people quote them until you're less "brand new."

[Machismo]

I have no intention of debating an American on the merits of their systems. Invariably it goes down to "my country is special and must have this retarded system that doesn't work for reasons". You can skip to that part if you like. Waste of time trying to talk to you people on anything like that.

Isn't that literally what you are doing?

[Themius]

Because both of their allegations were/are a farce. They both had/have the same amount of evidence for their allegations: None whatsoever other than their word.

Yet leftists acted like Ford was some infallible saint who could do no wrong because the person her story implicated was a dreaded orange man appointee. And most of those same leftists are now bending over backwards to make the same arguments right-wingers made in defense of Kavanaugh in defense of Biden (as they should, because those are valid arguments). Its blatant hypocrisy, and as I said, I am glad for it because its gutting that shit tier movement and destroying what little credibility it had, which is a great thing.

Because it was a movement entirely built upon bypassing courts of law and trying people in the court of Twitter opinion... Sorry, but no thanks, anyone who thinks that's how things should be done is a piece of shit.

Weird how you say leftist even though. Almost. EVERY REPUBLICAN found her credible. Are they all secret leftist??????

[JohnBrown1917]

Well... we have this oligarch as president and no conservative is demanding he be replaced by Pence.

And you get to choose between different flavours of oligarchy this cycle, must be great to be American.

[Machismo]

And you get to choose between different flavours of oligarchy this cycle, must be great to be American.

Are you mad that people didn't choose communism?

[Themius]

We have had over 100 pages of Trumpers and Biden bros defending rape, it should be obvious now that they don't care if their guy who does it.

You lie very easily.

[I Push Buttons]

It literally just means treating sexual assault claims the same way we treat every other kind of claim

Yeah the way I judge every other kind of 'claim' is by looking at the evidence after an investigation is conducted by the authorities.

As I previously said:

If you get sexually assaulted, go to the police so evidence can be collected.

The only way I am going to lend any credence to your word alone is if you went to the police, and they clearly mishandled/swept the case under the rug because of who the alleged assailant was. In such a case, I will be like "yep, you tried to do this properly and the authorities failed you, I'm on your side now"... Though in such a case I would want even higher authorities to become involved (to both handle the investigation and punish the failed lower authorities for their wrongdoing), not try to seek mob justice via social media.

[Felya]

And you get to choose between different flavours of oligarchy this cycle, must be great to be American.

Biden was middle income when he grew up. He climbed up from middle class. That’s not oligarch... his son would be, but not him. Same with Hillary... Obama was also raised by a single mom... and so was Bill. These are not oligarch...

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Do you really think Biden is going to do anything about the law as it stands?

Doesn't seem plausible-guy accused of rape will reform rape laws.

Why not? Unlike Trump, who has last been accused of improper behavior, by a 2016 staffer and has a history of 47 accusations, Biden has stopped abusing women. I think if you want the most loyal husband possible, democrats don’t have a Biden substitute. But, you know who would never have any advancement towards women outside his wedlock... Pence... so... how about it... get Pence up there to kick Biden down a peg! We want Pence! We want Pence! Join me... we need the leader of corona response as our president. We want Pence! We want Pence! Join me...

We have had over 100 pages of Trumpers and Biden bros defending rape, it should be obvious now that they don't care if their guy who does it.

Yeah, join me in demanding that Trump be replaced by Pence to defeat Biden. Who do democrats have, that is as loyal to his wife and as disinterested in physical interactions than Pence. Dude... join me... We want Pence! We want Pence! We want Pence! Biden with his accusation, can’t beat the pure, good hearted Pence... all hail... I mean Pence, Pence, he’s our man, he won’t touch us since Jesus said he can’t! Yey!

[fwc577]

Because both of their allegations were/are a farce. They both had/have the same amount of evidence for their allegations: None whatsoever other than their word.

Yet leftists acted like Ford was some infallible saint who could do no wrong because the person her story implicated was a dreaded orange man appointee. And most of those same leftists are now bending over backwards to make the same arguments right-wingers made in defense of Kavanaugh in defense of Biden (as they should, because those are valid arguments). Its blatant hypocrisy, and as I said, I am glad for it because its gutting that shit tier movement and destroying what little credibility it had, which is a great thing.

Because it was a movement entirely built upon bypassing courts of law and trying people in the court of Twitter opinion... Sorry, but no thanks, anyone who thinks that's how things should be done is a piece of shit.

I think the biggest difference between Ford and Reade is a credibility issue.

Ford's inconsistencies were minor details from an incident that happened 38 years ago.

So, let's dig deeper into those....

Changing the details of the year it occurred from 84 to 82..
--I personally have multiple incidents in my past I cannot remember exactly when it occurred. I lost my virginity at 17 or 18. I remember it happened in the year 2003 but cannot recall if it happened before or after my birthday in the fall that year. In my teens, I broke my knee. It was a significant event as it has caused my life-long, at times debilitating issues. It happened sometime between the ages 13-17. That's a bigger difference that Ford's change and it's something that has affected the rest of my life in a pretty significant way. Ford's change came in the form of the fact she apparently said she was 17 but then later said the year was 1982 which would make her 15. This isn't really that big of a deal.

"Changing" the location
--Blasey Ford initially said it was near the country club and then later said it was between her house and the country club. To me, this is simple semantics. 10 minutes isn't far from someplace. Is 3 miles near something? I live in a place that is about twice the size of Bethesda, Maryland. It is a suburb and if I were talking to someone who was not from my town, I would call the Grocery store in my town as "near my house". I just pulled it up on Google Maps to get the distance. Drive time, 8 minutes. Miles, 3.1. I don't see this as a change in the testimony at all. This is just crying about the fact that she changed up her word usage but it still means the same thing.

"Changing" the number of attackers
--Blasey Ford, as far as we're aware, never changed the number of attackers at the party. This comes from therapists notes. It's a second hand account of what the therapist heard. This isn't accurate to say that Blasey Ford changed her story when she clarified that there were 4 boys at the party and the therapist misheard her. Additionally, why do therapist notes exists of this incident? Because it's something that clearly affected her. And when were these therapist notes written? 2012. Who was president then? Not Donald Trump. Who was up for a Supreme Court Nomination? Not Brett Kavanaugh. These two names weren't even in our current knowledge of potential political figures. If the therapist notes were, say, from early 2016, it would give me pause. Additionally, these notes were written in a session in 2012, 30 years after the attack occurred. Additionally, these are therapist notes and not sworn testimony. In sworn testimony, you're going to be thinking about it a lot harder to get the exact details correct rather than when you're talking to a therapist.


There is bound to be inconsistencies in story after that amount of time has passed. In this case, all the inconsistencies were minor.


Now let's compare that to Reade's inconsistencies...

Making her uncomfortable vs Sexual Assault
--Reade initially gave interviews back in April of 2019 (yes, 1 year ago) saying that Biden had simple made her uncomfortable by inappropriate shoulder and neck touching. No mention was ever made about the assault. It wasn't until a year later that she changed her story to digital penetration.

Praising Biden for work on stopping sexual assault.
--Reade, under the name Tara McCab, publicly liked and shared articles specifically endorsing Biden for his work on sexual assault in 2017

Changed her story on why she left DC
--Reade claims she left DC because Biden fired her. Yet, in 2018 she claimed she left DC because she felt she was more of an artists and hated "America Imperialism" and love Russia with all her heart. In 2009, she claimed she left DC because her husband got a new job.

She has Russia issues
--In 2017, she condemned Russia for election interference on Twitter. In 2018, she changed and suddenly began publishing her own pro-Russian articles and fawned over Putin. Here is an example of something she wrote:

“President Putin has an alluring combination of strength with gentleness. His sensuous image projects his love for life, the embodiment of grace while facing adversity. It is evident that he loves his country, his people and his job…. President Putin’s obvious reverence for women, children and animals, and his ability with sports is intoxicating to American women”

One week before she changed her story and claimed that Biden had digitally penetrated her, she stopped writing her pro-Russian trash.

In summary, in 2017, Reade was anti-Russia and pro-Joe Biden. In 2018, she begins to write pro-Russian propaganda. In 2019, she accuses Biden of misconduct. In 2020, she stops writing pro-Russian propaganda and accuses Biden of sexual assault.

One other thing to note. When she reached out to Time's Up, they connected her with multiple lawyers. She later told Salon that she wasn't interested in suing Biden, but she was angry "about the smears about being a Russian agent." from Biden supporters. One law firm that Reade spoke with confirmed this and that they chose not to take the case with the ambiguous goal of trying to shut down people on social media who were speculating about the accuser being a "Russian agent."


Who broke the Reade story?

Katie Halper, a Gawker journalist. There is a reason that the mainstream media has not pursued this story. It's because it's a shit-show, obviously. However, bernie-bro, Katie Halper has claimed that it's because the media is loyal to Biden.

Due to the traction this story has gained, it has resulted in several news outlets digging into the story deeper. Here are some of the inconsistencies The New York Times, Wapo, The Nation, CNN, and NPR have uncovered:

1- Reade claimed she made a complaint about Biden’s alleged assault to the Senate personnel office. There is no record of this.

2- Reade claimed that after the assault she complained to Marianne Baker, Biden’s executive assistant, and Biden’s senior aides, Dennis Toner and Ted Kaufman, about harassment (but not the assault). Reade has stated that she had multiple conversations and meetings with them specifically about the alleged harassment. Baker, Toner and Kaufman have all strenuously denied Reade spoke to them about this at all. “I never once witnessed, or heard of, or received, any reports of inappropriate conduct, period — not from Ms. Reade, not from anyone,” said Marianne Baker in a statement. “I have absolutely no knowledge or memory of Ms. Reade’s accounting of events, which would have left a searing impression on me as a woman professional, and as a manager.”

3- Reade’s brother, Collin Moulton, has also changed his story about the nature of the alleged assault. Reported the Washington Post:

In another recent interview, Reade’s brother, Collin Moulton, said she told him in 1993 that Biden had behaved inappropriately by touching her neck and shoulders. Their mother urged Reade to contact the police, Moulton said, adding that he felt “ashamed now for not being a better advocate” for his sister. Several days after that interview, he said in a text message that he recalled her telling him that Biden had put his hand “under her clothes.”

Moulton’s first recollection of what his sister told him in 1993 does not describe sexual assault. The second recollection, given just days later, constitutes serious sexual assault. Given Reade’s mother (whom she claims to have told about the assault) is now deceased and the other witness Reade says she told remains anonymous, we only have Moulton’s word to corroborate the story. Given Moulton has changed his story, it is impossible to take seriously.


With all that said, it's a much easier pill to swallow that Blasey Ford was likely sexually assaulted, whether or not it was Brett Kavanaugh is not for me to say. With all the above evidence, Reade on the other hand is just a nutjob.

If her story had any shred of credibility, I cannot find it.

[Levelfive]

Yeah the way I judge every other kind of 'claim' is by looking at the evidence after an investigation is conducted by the authorities.

As I previously said:



The only way I am going to lend any credence to your word alone is if you went to the police, and they clearly mishandled/swept the case under the rug because of who the alleged assailant was. In such a case, I will be like "yep, you tried to do this properly and the authorities failed you, I'm on your side now"... Though in such a case I would want even higher authorities to become involved (to both handle the investigation and punish the failed lower authorities for their wrongdoing), not try to seek mob justice via social media.

Again, first of all, they have more than just their "word alone." Secondly, by your logic, unless men report to the police that they were falsely accused and had an investigation conducted, they--and you--have no credibility to claim such, so that's not a great metric for determining whether a crime has been committed. And on the front of maintaining a narrow worldview that frees you from critical thinking, given that women, as previously noted, have been slut-shamed, impugned, fired, and / or murdered for reporting sexual assault claims, maybe incorporate the fact that they have very good cause to be reluctant to come forward.

[fwc577]

Rape is a bad thing whoever does it. Why is it necessary to say this?

It's only necessary if you're not actually paying attention to what is being said in this thread.

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If money is more important to victims of sexual assault than seeking justice then who the fuck are you to tell them otherwise? Are you suggesting that said victims be denied agency in addition to being assaulted?

People have a constitutional right to counsel in this country... Are you genuinely arguing that we need mob justice because some people can afford better lawyers to defend them than others?

Neither Blasey Ford or Reade had any desire to sue their accusers and get paid. Let's move onto a new subject.

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If a rapist can buy off victims he can commit further crimes. Why am I having to explain this?

Neither Blasey Ford or Reade have expressed any desire to sue their accusers. Let's move onto a new subject because it's not relevant to this topic.

[Felya]

"Just being handsy" is also a weird take on Biden's behavior.

You know what’s a weird take? Trump having a lawsuit for inappropriate behavior in 2016, as in, he never stopped. The case was dropped in 2019, because of threats against her and her family... likely by the same alt right you think is so honest.

But, I even have a cheerleader slogan to make sure we get a pure president. It goes... Pence, Pence, he’s our man, he won’t touch us since Jesus said he can’t! Yey!

Join me, in demanding GOP replace Trump, with a man who has a better assault history than any democrat... We want Pence! We want Pence! We want Pence!

[I Push Buttons]

With all that said, it's a much easier pill to swallow that Blasey Ford was likely raped

She never alleged Kavanaugh raped her, she alleged he sexually assaulted her...

Her allegation was that, at a party, he took her to a room, held her down, groped her, and tried to remove her clothes; she then escaped when another person (Mark Judge) jumped into the bed with them, which allowed her to break free of his grasp.

[Felya]

She never alleged Kavanaugh raped her, she alleged he sexually assaulted her...

Her allegation was that, at a party, he took her to a room, held her down, groped her, and tried to remove her clothes; she then escaped when another person (Mark Judge) jumped into the bed with them, which allowed her to break free of his grasp.

What was that slogan or saying in their yearbook?

[Levelfive]

What was that slogan or saying in their yearbook?

I believe it was "no means yes and yes means anal." That one?

Oh sorry, that was his old fraternity's chant. You mean "Devil's Triangle." Got it.

[fwc577]

She never alleged Kavanaugh raped her, she alleged he sexually assaulted her...

Her allegation was that, at a party, he took her to a room, held her down, groped her, and tried to remove her clothes; she then escaped when another person (Mark Judge) jumped into the bed with them, which allowed her to break free of his grasp.

There, changed it for you otherwise I know you and the rest of the right-wing nutters are going to completely ignore the rest despite the fact it blows up all the bullshit you all have been spewing.

[Felya]

Neither Blasey Ford or Reade have expressed any desire to sue their accusers. Let's move onto a new subject because it's not relevant to this topic.

While Trump’s 2016 staffer did sue... dropping the charge due to threats from Trump supporters.

[I Push Buttons]

There, changed it for you otherwise I know you and the rest of the right-wing nutters are going to completely ignore the rest despite the fact it blows up all the bullshit you all have been spewing.

Today I learned expecting evidence that a crime has actually been committed makes one a right-wing nutter.

[fwc577]

While Trump’s 2016 staffer did sue... dropping the charge due to threats from Trump supporters.

Sorry, posted that because I was growing frustrated with the insistence on QQing from several posters about how we see Reade as not credible and Blasey Ford as credible. Didn't see the full context from the quotes in those posts.

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Today I learned expecting evidence that a crime has actually been committed makes one a right-wing nutter.

Testimony is evidence. Don't be a fucking twit.

Blasey Ford has given testimony.

Reade has not.

[Levelfive]

Today I learned expecting evidence that a crime has actually been committed makes one a right-wing nutter.

Her testimony is evidence; the affidavits submitted on her behalf that she discussed it with people years prior is evidence; Kavanaugh's calendar is evidence. This just demonstrates (again) that you don't know what evidence means.