Affliction can't spend soulshards in BFA arena. Shadowlands too?

[JustaWarlock]

I dont know if you were around for legion or wod alpha, but "dont worry it's only alpha/beta they'll balance it or fix it before launch" was the response to nearly every balance of system complaint. Or reports of bugs. Pretty much anything really.

Guess how much changed or got fixeD?

[Atrieus]

I dont know if you were around for legion or wod alpha, but "dont worry it's only alpha/beta they'll balance it or fix it before launch" was the response to nearly every balance of system complaint. Or reports of bugs. Pretty much anything really.

Guess how much changed or got fixeD?

I was, and I'm not saying you are wrong or disagreeing with what your saying.

But my point was about damage tuning and numbers, which with it being Alpha there is no point in talking about number tuning. You took what i said out of context to try and validate what you were saying.

[Amariw]

I dont really know what we could use though.
I feel if our dots are strong enough, which they should be as that is what the spec is about. I dont think we will need to pump out damage.

And by that i mean if our dots are rotting away, and with the option to spend shards to increase the pace of duration whatever it is, meaning you need to be shut down silenced stunned whatever, if we are still doing steady damage from our dots and if the healing absorb talent actually is a thing i dont think it will be such an issue.

To fix most of this the only option i can think of as a simple fix would be letting us cast mortal coil whilst stunned maybe without the heal to balance it a bit.

Were also all getting demonic circle back so that is also crucial, until the game settles down a bit its impossible to tell, i do beleive that currently affliction is looking to be in a really good spot, i mean were able to have 6? I think dots including covenant, not to mention we are getting curses back.

As you mentioned instants and such, the way im thinking currently, if you have a mage for example, full of dots, and curse of tongues on him reducing his damage (potentially) then being sat in a stun may not be as big of an issue. At least at face value and obviously thats a super basic example but you get the general idea.

The key isn't just more instants, or "push this button to exit bad situation" spells like, for example, what you suggested with a death coil while stunned. Those are balance concerns, which are very important but secondary to gameplay concerns.

What affliction used to have for many expansions and no longer has is a choice. A choice of spending shards inefficently, possibly instantly (thats how it was in mop-legion, and basically the only way to make it an option vs interrupts), but for a lesser result than the casted option. What this choice actually does can be as simple as a small burst of dmg (higher then filler but lower then Malefic Rupture). It could refresh corruption like instant Seed talent did in Legion, the actual effect need not be super complex, though of course interacting with our dots/specc would make for a richer design.

It needs to give you something to do in case melee/interrupters train you. It needs to make you feel "ok i'm happy i could do this and not be useless, but damn its not as strong as if i could Malefic Rupture, i should aim to find windows to do that".

For that goal, the legion iteration of instant seed proccs was superior to mop Soulburn:Soulswap (which simply placed 3 dots in one gcd) in that it gave actual burst dmg and not just dot reapplication (which is something that you will never lack for if you fear interrupts, because refreshing instant dots is all you do anyway). It was somewhat inferior to MoP iteration in that it was a random procc that you could only do in set times rather then a consistent choice.

I think something like an instant seed honor talent, mb with a 3-5 seconds cd, is simple but smooth and effective enough to be an amalgam of the best qualities in both. The dmg on seeds casted this way can be nerfed if neccesary, though the dmg component itself should stay to ensure you're getting something that isn't just a dot refresh.

[Cainium]

For that goal, the legion iteration of instant seed proccs was superior to mop Soulburn:Soulswap (which simply placed 3 dots in one gcd) in that it gave actual burst dmg and not just dot reapplication (which is something that you will never lack for if you fear interrupts, because refreshing instant dots is all you do anyway). It was somewhat inferior to MoP iteration in that it was a random procc that you could only do in set times rather then a consistent choice.

How did that give any sort of "burst"? It applied corruption, and did some irrelevant AoE damage. It was "something to do while being trained", but "burst"? Not really.

I've two major issues with affliction in arena:
- Any healer can nullfiy my whole damage in a blink of an eye. Thats not so much an issue in 3s, where i play more supportive, but in 2s it's rediculous easy to shut down an affliction warlock.
- I can't keep up with ANY enemy. A full burst cycle is not enough to kill anyone with a brain, IF there is an opportunity for a kill EVERY enemy uses their mobility to hide, IF i can, for whatever reason, get LoS again they throw their instant CC on me and the opportunity is gone.

Compared to destruction, which can kill anyone through a fear+shadowfury cycle with a few CB mixed in, aff is a lot weaker.

As a class with...
- ... no offensive mobility...
- ... no instant CC...
- ... no instant damage...
- ... no snares/roots...
- ... everything being a hard cast...

... we are in need of something BIG. I doubt the "new" curses will make up for not having anything from the above list. While a mage is blasting you with instant, how much does a cast time increase matter? While a meeles just ignores your unending resolve, and blasts through it, how much does a physical damage reduction curse matter? How much does thery matter if almost every healer can dispell those if they would become relevant?

[Amariw]

How did that give any sort of "burst"? It applied corruption, and did some irrelevant AoE damage. It was "something to do while being trained", but "burst"? Not really.

I've two major issues with affliction in arena:
- Any healer can nullfiy my whole damage in a blink of an eye. Thats not so much an issue in 3s, where i play more supportive, but in 2s it's rediculous easy to shut down an affliction warlock.
- I can't keep up with ANY enemy. A full burst cycle is not enough to kill anyone with a brain, IF there is an opportunity for a kill EVERY enemy uses their mobility to hide, IF i can, for whatever reason, get LoS again they throw their instant CC on me and the opportunity is gone.

Compared to destruction, which can kill anyone through a fear+shadowfury cycle with a few CB mixed in, aff is a lot weaker.

As a class with...
- ... no offensive mobility...
- ... no instant CC...
- ... no instant damage...
- ... no snares/roots...
- ... everything being a hard cast...

... we are in need of something BIG. I doubt the "new" curses will make up for not having anything from the above list. While a mage is blasting you with instant, how much does a cast time increase matter? While a meeles just ignores your unending resolve, and blasts through it, how much does a physical damage reduction curse matter? How much does thery matter if almost every healer can dispell those if they would become relevant?

My phrasing might have been misleading. I meant a "burst" of damage as in direct, not dotty damage. Affliction in general doesn't really need a big burst of dmg. I was just comparing the legion instant spender (instant seed), which did some dmg, to the mop instant spender which only refreshed dots and hence wasn't very useful if you were on top of your refreshes, whereas the legion one added some damage anyway. That's why i also suggested the shadowlands instant spender can be an instant ua (the shadowlands ua, that's not stackable). To give us a source of dmg we won't have if we can't cast, and with dispel protection to go with it. I agree the backlash from dispel should be more severe, though.
It's as much of a gameplay issue as a balance one though. Without some instant spender, aff has no decision and no agency, its just stuck on five shards outside 3 min cd, spamming instant dots.

I agree that without demon armor for affliction we will lack the protection pvp templates gave us, so we might need demon armor if baseline circle proves insufficent. Think it suits warlock design more then mop levels of cc, which took too much control away from enemies.

In legion, the greatest value of the specc was simply the amazing consistent cleave (and when left alone, single target) damage was, both in 2s and 3s (though as you prolly know, blizz has long decided not to bother much with 2's balance for any class). It was hard to survive, but everyone died if you did, and if they ran away they were only hastening their demise while dots tick and the lock's healer got room to breath. I think we should aspire to that.

[Mehrunes]

imagine being a spellcaster and not having to cast spells.

What do you think casters do when they use instant cast abilities?

[sugarfree]

imagine being a spellcaster and not having to cast spells.

Now say that again with a melee with all cooldowns up your face.

[Micronetic]

What do you think casters do when they use instant cast abilities?

But first you have to wait out the GCD before it becomes an instant cast.