Fairly certain developers dont play Outlaw rogue (shadowlands changes)

[Big Thanks]

Why do i think this?

Because Between the Eyes was the button that felt the greatest to press (specially in PvP)
It was a huge RANGED, DAMAGING, Low CD, STUN.

Did you ever press any button more satisfying than this? It was the greatest thing of Outlaw PvP

Another point:
Why is between the eyes even a "ranged spell" in shadowlands.....Why?

Is a debuff for you to do more damage! ROFLMAO
Why would you want to do it RANGED !?!??!

[StillMcfuu]

Why do i think this?

Because Between the Eyes was the button that felt the greatest to press (specially in PvP)
It was a huge RANGED, DAMAGING, Low CD, STUN.

Did you ever press any button more satisfying than this? It was the greatest thing of Outlaw PvP

Another point:
Why is between the eyes even a "ranged spell" in shadowlands.....Why?

Is a debuff for you to do more damage! ROFLMAO
Why would you want to do it RANGED !?!??!

Because you got Kidney shot and already have gouge...

[Jazzhands]

Why do i think this?

Because Between the Eyes was the button that felt the greatest to press (specially in PvP)
It was a huge RANGED, DAMAGING, Low CD, STUN.

Did you ever press any button more satisfying than this? It was the greatest thing of Outlaw PvP

Another point:
Why is between the eyes even a "ranged spell" in shadowlands.....Why?

Is a debuff for you to do more damage! ROFLMAO
Why would you want to do it RANGED !?!??!

I don't know what they changed, but it just sounds like it was a really strong ability and now it isn't so you're salty.

[Budong]

Yeah I don't understand this either. It's the thematic replacement for Kidney Shot correct? We didn't lose the ability, just dressed it up cosmetically to fit the pirate theme. I've never heard any Outlaw rogues complaining about it. Then again I don't visit forums as much as I used to so maybe they do there. No Outlaw rogues in my guild have ever expressed the desire to have Kidney Shot back because we didn't lose it.

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I don't know what they changed, but it just sounds like it was a really strong ability and now it isn't so you're salty.

If you don't understand the context of the post then how can you respond with any degree of intelligence?

[Big Thanks]

I don't know what they changed, but it just sounds like it was a really strong ability and now it isn't so you're salty.

The new ability is strong...but it makes no sense in removing the best feeling in the world...which was a damaging, long range, low cd stun.
It was such an awesome button to press...why would anyone want this removed?

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Yeah I don't understand this either. It's the thematic replacement for Kidney Shot correct? We didn't lose the ability, just dressed it up cosmetically to fit the pirate theme. I've never heard any Outlaw rogues complaining about it. Then again I don't visit forums as much as I used to so maybe they do there. No Outlaw rogues in my guild have ever expressed the desire to have Kidney Shot back because we didn't lose it.

Do you have an explanation as to why between the eyes is a long range ability in shadowlands? it makes no sense
I dont think anyone in the world has an answer to this (>_<)

We both dont understand

[Flantini]

It's nice to not have your damage, cc, and ranged rolled into one ability. As it stands it could be incredibly powerful, now they can buff dmg/cd/cost without it being too OP because its also a 6 second stun. Having them be different abilities will allow more game play depth (ie. you can kidney the healer then use a hard hitting ranged dmg buff on your way to your kill target rather than having all your cc and dmg be tied into one ability.). Having it be ranged is nice because it allows you to still dmg while on the move (with pistol shot and between the eyes you now have ranged builders and spenders). Yes the "ideal" dps dmg scenario you'll want to use this ability in melee range so you get the maximum benefit, but keeping the ranged quality will only add utility.

[Big Thanks]

It's nice to not have your damage, cc, and ranged rolled into one ability. As it stands it could be incredibly powerful, now they can buff dmg/cd/cost without it being too OP because its also a 6 second stun. Having them be different abilities will allow more game play depth (ie. you can kidney the healer then use a hard hitting ranged dmg buff on your way to your kill target rather than having all your cc and dmg be tied into one ability.). Having it be ranged is nice because it allows you to still dmg while on the move (with pistol shot and between the eyes you now have ranged builders and spenders). Yes the "ideal" dps dmg scenario you'll want to use this ability in melee range so you get the maximum benefit, but keeping the ranged quality will only add utility.

Im pretty sure using the shadowlands ranged between the eyes.....is literally shooting yourslef in the foot.
Quite literally.

There is no scenario in the world where it makes sense to use it "ranged"

[Varolyn]

The new Roll the Bones might be a bigger issue imo. It's now a cd instead of a finisher... but it will cost 50 freaking energy.

[Xeh.-]

Either remove kidney and keep real between the eyes OR remove between the eyes altogether.

Makes no sense, they just brought abilities back without thinking how they play with the spec...

Outlaw makes no sense in Shadowlands, at all. Hopefully they change some stuff. Some at least...

[Big Thanks]

It's nice to not have your damage, cc, and ranged rolled into one ability. As it stands it could be incredibly powerful, now they can buff dmg/cd/cost without it being too OP because its also a 6 second stun. Having them be different abilities will allow more game play depth (ie. you can kidney the healer then use a hard hitting ranged dmg buff on your way to your kill target rather than having all your cc and dmg be tied into one ability.). Having it be ranged is nice because it allows you to still dmg while on the move (with pistol shot and between the eyes you now have ranged builders and spenders). Yes the "ideal" dps dmg scenario you'll want to use this ability in melee range so you get the maximum benefit, but keeping the ranged quality will only add utility.

But you are completely right when you say all our damage was also incorporated in the crowd control.
And we dont always want to kill the stunned target.

That was a problem yeah.

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Either remove kidney and keep real between the eyes OR remove between the eyes altogether.

Makes no sense, they just brought abilities back without thinking how they play with the spec...

Outlaw makes no sense in Shadowlands, at all. Hopefully they change some stuff. Some at least...

Blizzard: A powerful ranged pistol shot fits the class fantasy

also Blizzard: Lets make it huge damage burst window debuff ranged spell...for a melee class *troll face*

[Garymorilix]

The new ability is strong...but it makes no sense in removing the best feeling in the world...which was a damaging, long range, low cd stun.
It was such an awesome button to press...why would anyone want this removed?

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Do you have an explanation as to why between the eyes is a long range ability in shadowlands? it makes no sense
I dont think anyone in the world has an answer to this (>_<)

We both dont understand

What do you mean why.

Their whole goal in Shadowlands is to give classes spells that all specs can use.

If you keep Outlaw as is and just give them Kidney Shot too that is way overboard with stuns. Even Blizz knows this.
You can't simply keep adding CC to rogue and expect it to not be OP.
Or do you think it would be okay for Rogues to basically keep a whole trash group stun locked in M+?

Between the eyes is a long ranged ability because it is shot from a pistol?
How is this hard to understand?
Besides, it will be easier to apply the debuff to the target if you cannot stick to it or as you're running up.

[Big Thanks]

What do you mean why.

Their whole goal in Shadowlands is to give classes spells that all specs can use.

If you keep Outlaw as is and just give them Kidney Shot too that is way overboard with stuns. Even Blizz knows this.
You can't simply keep adding CC to rogue and expect it to not be OP.
Or do you think it would be okay for Rogues to basically keep a whole trash group stun locked in M+?

Between the eyes is a long ranged ability because it is shot from a pistol?
How is this hard to understand?
Besides, it will be easier to apply the debuff to the target if you cannot stick to it or as you're running up.

No one asked for kidney shot...
The fact we now have kidney shot is actually a nerf because it means we lose the ranged stun.

There is no trade off...having kidney shot is a nerf

You know why?
Because numbers are just numbers

Numbers will never be overtuned because of balancing.

This changes will not make rogue overpowered in PvP...because the numbers will be fixed.
Im only "QQ'ing" because we lost the best feeling of outlaw rogue...

Yes...we now finally have BURST in PvP...thank GOD.
But
We lost so much...

[Flantini]

If you are going to look at it like that, why ever use pistol shot not in melee range? its a dps loss to do so (loss of auto attacks/proc chances) so why even have that ability? why not just make it melee? The point is to allow yourself a ranged option and add some utility to the rotation. As others have said, you can use this as a hard hitting ability (100k+ crits) and that could finish off an opponent who was trying to kite away at the last minuet. Or you can use it as some hard hitting dmg while kiting away to live.

Yes the ideal dps scenario you want to happen is to use it in melee then burst the shit out of the enemy, but not you at least have the option to choose otherwise. Plus with this change they can add talents/bonuses to between the eyes without breaking the game in pvp because it is also tied to cc. For example, perhaps now we will have access to a proc that resets the cooldown on between the eyes? Or an ability that reduces the cooldown by X percent? Before these would have been very unlikely because of the dmg buff on top of extra cc, but now they are different so more doors are open.

[Eazy]

The new Roll the Bones might be a bigger issue imo. It's now a cd instead of a finisher... but it will cost 50 freaking energy.

Where are you guys getting that information from? I haven't seen anything like that.

[Big Thanks]

Where are you guys getting that information from? I haven't seen anything like that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVXT_j0Qmjs

and several other yotubers

[Jazzhands]

Yeah I don't understand this either. It's the thematic replacement for Kidney Shot correct? We didn't lose the ability, just dressed it up cosmetically to fit the pirate theme. I've never heard any Outlaw rogues complaining about it. Then again I don't visit forums as much as I used to so maybe they do there. No Outlaw rogues in my guild have ever expressed the desire to have Kidney Shot back because we didn't lose it.

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If you don't understand the context of the post then how can you respond with any degree of intelligence?

I understand the context just fine. OP is clearly upset they changed the ability or replaced it or whatever. I don't need to know what was changed to make the response I did. From what the OP described, the ability sounds really good, and if he's upset that it was changed or replaced that means it's a negative change, which he is "salty", or unhappy about.

It's really that simple. Regardless of the change, my response would be the same. Strong and fun abilities change all the time in this game, it's just how it goes. Does it suck? Sure. But at the end of the day you'll either have to get over it or reroll, because as we all know things rarely change from Alpha/beta.

[Powerogue]

Glad to see I'm not the only one salty. All these changes are allegedly to "bring back the class/spec flavor that was lost"

You guys MADE the spec in Legion. The flavor I want is LEGION. >.<

I already had all my burst dps taken from me rendering me neutered in PvP, having no ranged stun is just salt on the wound. Having it not be a choice between dps and the stun meant I had much higher uptime on that 10% damage talent, so this is overall a pretty huge nerf to outlaw, particularly while doing solo content.

I had planned on my rogue being one of my 4 characters for Shadowlands but guess I'm leveling another alt. It's really hard abandoning a main like this. BFA outlaw was terrible but at least playable propped up by the right essences.

[Big Thanks]

If you are going to look at it like that, why ever use pistol shot not in melee range? its a dps loss to do so (loss of auto attacks/proc chances) so why even have that ability? why not just make it melee? The point is to allow yourself a ranged option and add some utility to the rotation. As others have said, you can use this as a hard hitting ability (100k+ crits) and that could finish off an opponent who was trying to kite away at the last minuet. Or you can use it as some hard hitting dmg while kiting away to live.

Yes the ideal dps scenario you want to happen is to use it in melee then burst the shit out of the enemy, but not you at least have the option to choose otherwise. Plus with this change they can add talents/bonuses to between the eyes without breaking the game in pvp because it is also tied to cc. For example, perhaps now we will have access to a proc that resets the cooldown on between the eyes? Or an ability that reduces the cooldown by X percent? Before these would have been very unlikely because of the dmg buff on top of extra cc, but now they are different so more doors are open.

Ok...the ability does damage...i can finish off a low health target.

It also does 4 times more damage if it crits...BUT the ability itself is our crit improvement AND we lost the ability to continuasly roll the bones to get SHARK.

How is this ability going to crit again? And do 4 times more damage?
Everything is backwards...for now

I hope they rethink this...

[Beefhammer]

I don't know what they changed, but it just sounds like it was a really strong ability and now it isn't so you're salty.

Typical complaint of the FOTM club or the this ability is way OP club.

[Big Thanks]

Typical complaint of the FOTM club or the this ability is way OP club.

Outlaw pvp...flavor of the month?

There is no such thing as an Outlaw PvP'er...its only me bro i checked
Im the only Outlaw PvP'er in the world.