Shadowlands is the "players were right" expansion.

[Aucald]

I too am saddened by removal of master lube

Although difficult to track down, it has been confirmed that master lube is very rarely stocked by vendor https://www.wowhead.com/npc=60762/master-baiter.

[DemonDays]

Most class changes after MOP were caused by players asking for more class identity/less homogenization and blizzard pruned classes trying to achieve that goal.

Yeah because class identity definitely equals removing all totems and hybridity from Shamans and giving Enhancement a builder/spender type design to make it a budget Fury Warrior. That's just one example.

The overwhelming majority of DPS specs are now all builder/spender.

Failed spec identity doesn't equal "class identity".

[PenguinChan]

Most class changes after MOP were caused by players asking for more class identity/less homogenization and blizzard pruned classes trying to achieve that goal.

Blizzard removed abilities, homogenized classes and made things less unique more often than not. So this makes absolutely no sense why they would do that when players wanted more unique takes on their specializations. Sure, classes feel prettier and more impactful but that doesn't ultimately change what you press and how you press it.

[Lazuli]

Or it will turn out to be the "Player were utterly wrong" expansion. You're a bit to quick to celebrate here.

except the game was fun before legion/bfa systems and is already proven to be better?

[mauserr]

It actually is.

[BeepBoo]

They were so close to reverting back to the good ol' days, but the factions will fill essentially the same roles of the rest of the (bad) stuff they got rid of.

[oplawlz]

Should this expansion turn out to work and the design decisions are validated, Blizzard needs to do one thing for 10.0.

Nothing. Constant iteration has heavily damage this game as they strive to reinvent it with every expansion. If Shadowlands is the working formula, STOP ITERATING. Just create new content, new quests, new zones, new stories. If 10.0 is the same game as 9.0, what of it if 9.0 was a wild success?

If that requires a new roguelike dungeon for Torghast, just do another one. If crafting our own legendaries is a brilliant system, just do that again.

No need to continually reinvent the wheel which each expansion because there's 50/50 chance doing so will make the next expansion suck.

People have been saying that since Cata. What it comes down to is subtractive versus additive game design. Stop taking peoples toys away because you cba to support them anymore.

[Beefkow]

Most of the class design shit is getting fixed, in which the people that provided feedback back in beta have been telling blizzard. Practically beating a dead horse one thousand times over.

But the talents still look the same, festering wounds is still a mechanic for unholy dk, a mechanic that I absolutely fucking hate. Talents are still stale and probably going to pick the same exact talents as we did in BFA.

It's looking better than BFA by a far mile, but still isn't selling it for me.

Oh, and shadow word death is back for priests, which is how it should be.

I'm not sure how people call BFA an expansion, it was literately legion but dumbed down and pruned and stripped of all its glory, (class design wise).

[Jinpachi]

Should this expansion turn out to work and the design decisions are validated, Blizzard needs to do one thing for 10.0.

Nothing. Constant iteration has heavily damage this game as they strive to reinvent it with every expansion. If Shadowlands is the working formula, STOP ITERATING. Just create new content, new quests, new zones, new stories. If 10.0 is the same game as 9.0, what of it if 9.0 was a wild success?

If that requires a new roguelike dungeon for Torghast, just do another one. If crafting our own legendaries is a brilliant system, just do that again.

No need to continually reinvent the wheel which each expansion because there's 50/50 chance doing so will make the next expansion suck.

That's the continuous improvement mindset at work for ya. "If it ain't broke, fix it anyway and make it better!" only for things to become worse.

[Redroniksre]

except the game was fun before legion/bfa systems and is already proven to be better?

It was? Oh thank god you posted those metrics i would of never believed it was more popular. I mean damn look at those BFA/Legion sub numbers talk about a drag

[tankbug]

Warfronts was a nice concept. They should've fleshed it out even more or made it better

In-fucking-deed! Just a bit more effort into them, making them more dynamic and challenging. A chance to lose, and not fight the exact battles every time.

[DemonDays]

Most of the class design shit is getting fixed, in which the people that provided feedback back in beta have been telling blizzard. Practically beating a dead horse one thousand times over.

But the talents still look the same, festering wounds is still a mechanic for unholy dk, a mechanic that I absolutely fucking hate. Talents are still stale and probably going to pick the same exact talents as we did in BFA.

It's looking better than BFA by a far mile, but still isn't selling it for me.

Oh, and shadow word death is back for priests, which is how it should be.

I'm not sure how people call BFA an expansion, it was literately legion but dumbed down and pruned and stripped of all its glory, (class design wise).

I think it's hilarious that heaps of the talents are still the same.

There are still completely dead rows where you will still pick the exact same talent 99% of the time.

Unless there is balancing to be done then the talents are still a complete mess.



Ion claimed that if something was chosen by the majority of the players of a spec then he would baseline it.

Newsflash. Almost every single spec has this problem with 85%+ choosing a single talent on a row.

https://www.worldofwargraphs.com/pve...thknight/frost

[ek0zu]

It really does not matter who is right or who is wrong. All that matters is having fun and shadowlands is promising after so many years. It's a game and we need just that, having fun!

[Amarys]

Dude...member when we saw anti-titanforging threads everyday and we thought "everyone" hated it?

And then...member now when we had a couple "i miss titanforging" threads?

Literally impossible.

Well think about who dislikes TF. Loud elitist mythic and high m+ raiders who are a huge minority. Most players don't raid mythic or do that kinda stuff so there is no reason for them to hate TF. By removing it, Blizzard is just catering to the vocal minority and not the players.

Other things like annoying over the top RNG systems are more universally hated though.

Like to me personally, the problem with BfA is that it has become a chore simulator, and not a fun, choose your own adventure kinda game like it used to be. I hate dailies and other themeparky elements like that and they have become more or less mandatory while in Legion and before, they just offered you cosmetics, crafting recipes, stuff like gold and maybe if you got lucky once in a blue moon some good TF item. So basically you could just ignore them and do what you enjoyed doing instead. Now you have to do them to upgrade and unlock your essences and whatnot and you just aren't competitive if you don't.

[glowpipe]

Many of these things sounds like its coming from the vocal minority. I have friends who have left the game now and won't play SL because of some of these changes. Expecially the loot ones. Less loot and no incentive to keep playing to get shit like right corruptions or higher ilvls.

I agree 100% that corruptions in its current state is hot garbage, but there would be ways to circumvent that. Going back to vanilla styled gear was not the solution. We got classic for that.

Remember majority of the feedback is always from the people who who don't enjoy the game. How many of the players playing do you think contact blizzard and say "i am happy with the current system, please don't change it" ?
I think a lot of players currently enjoying the game will not enjoy some of the changes that is coming in SL.

Me personaly, i don't care, i always adapt to the changes and deal with the cards i have been dealt. But that is not the case for a lot of people, as we can see on wow related forum everytime something is massively changed

[kamuimac]

Well think about who dislikes TF. Loud elitist mythic and high m+ raiders who are a huge minority. Most players don't raid mythic or do that kinda stuff so there is no reason for them to hate TF. By removing it, Blizzard is just catering to the vocal minority and not the players.

Other things like annoying over the top RNG systems are more universally hated though.

Like to me personally, the problem with BfA is that it has become a chore simulator, and not a fun, choose your own adventure kinda game like it used to be. I hate dailies and other themeparky elements like that and they have become more or less mandatory while in Legion and before, they just offered you cosmetics, crafting recipes, stuff like gold and maybe if you got lucky once in a blue moon some good TF item. So basically you could just ignore them and do what you enjoyed doing instead. Now you have to do them to upgrade and unlock your essences and whatnot and you just aren't competitive if you don't.

good - this is how mmorpg should be.

but we know dont you worry we know that people like you dream about expansion where you have to only log in for raids.

[Beefkow]

I think it's hilarious that heaps of the talents are still the same.

There are still completely dead rows where you will still pick the exact same talent 99% of the time.

Unless there is balancing to be done then the talents are still a complete mess.



Ion claimed that if something was chosen by the majority of the players of a spec then he would baseline it.

Newsflash. Almost every single spec has this problem with 85%+ choosing a single talent on a row.

https://www.worldofwargraphs.com/pve...thknight/frost

Pretty much.

It feels bad that I have to pick the same stupid talents the whole expansion, I want to play around and experiment but there's only 1 "good" talent in the row. Hard to believe some of this shit is staying, ravager is a big example, I hope that gets removed.

[Thirtyrock]

That's all great except the skill caps never disappeared. One of the popular criticisms of the current state of the game was that you can never know which item is better for you without running simulations on 3rd party sites. Game has layers upon layers of modifiers and additional effects on items. Please don't tell me the difference between someone who knows how to itemize their character and choose upgrades is small in BfA. And if you really think that, try joining LFR.

Oh, sure, gearing is still very complex, within certain ilvl ranges, but Prot Pally, as a spec, has a much lower skill cap than when I used to play. I'm hoping they raise the complexity of the class a bit, or at least give options for niche use abilities. The average player will miss those opportunities but the best will find them and so distinguish themselves.

I know some classes are still like this, but, in my eyes, they gutted Prot Pallys in WoD and it hasn't felt the same since.

[Kaver]

Reverse the GCD changes and I'm good to go

[Lazuli]

It was? Oh thank god you posted those metrics i would of never believed it was more popular. I mean damn look at those BFA/Legion sub numbers talk about a drag

I agree, so low they can't even post them or it'll scare the investors away.

There's a reason they don't post subs anymore, Blizzard have always been proud of their big numbers and have a huge ego. If they have 10+ mill subs, they aren't going to NOT fucking brag about it lol..

They stopped when subs were super duper low and never posted them since.