Who will be the guildbreaker?

[Sardoc]

It boils down to how easy they tune these bosses in classic.

On Pservers Skeram was by far the biggest block, but on those servers most AQ/Naxx fights was about half as hard as in Vanilla, thanks to poor tuning. (inherited 1.12 balancing issues)

As Ion said, Classic had to be made easier and more accessible for the modern generation of gamers, so both AQ and Naxx will probably be nerfed to the ground.

They didn't nerf anything. All of it is 1.12 data. Look, just because a bunch of private servers had ridiculous tuning doesn't mean there are nerfs everywhere.

[Kalmah]

Mythic raiding difficulty and classic speed running difficulty cannot be compared based on % of guilds doing either.

All retail raiding guilds of all levels try to progress as far as they can. For loot and to actually beat the game. The game rewards progression, guilds that clear mythic have access to better loot than those that don't.

Most classic guilds do not even attempt to speed run. Speed running gives 0 in-game rewards so most players are perfectly happy to just clear raids.

Most guilds could significantly reduce clear time by speeding up loot and not wait more than needed before pulling bosses.


If there were in-game rewards for timed runs, I guarantee you'd see a lot more speed clears

[Unholyground]

WoW is easy if you have competent people, I have never found WoW hard, frustrated with some fights maybe but never anything that could not be overcome unless there was a glitch which has happened but that is out of player control.

[epLe]

They didn't nerf anything. All of it is 1.12 data. Look, just because a bunch of private servers had ridiculous tuning doesn't mean there are nerfs everywhere.

1.12 data is hugely nerfed, compared to the patches raids was released. Which is the big reason why current raids do not look anywhere similar to how they was back then.

[ArenaDk]

But the circumstances are eerily similar, you have 16 debuff slots, improved & buffed talents, post multiple gear reworks.

The biggest differences are that there were no hyper established methodology or theory for Ny'Alotha on release unlike BWL, comparably very little practice or preparation for the release of Ny'Alotha vs BWL.

You can say gear this, gear that all you want, I can say talents this, debuffs there, talent reworks all I want.

A little weird to compare people clearing hc with mythic gear to people doing stuff with normal gear. It would more fit if you would use people who wear naxx gear and speed run mc with the best set up.

[WaltherLeopold]

A little weird to compare people clearing hc with mythic gear to people doing stuff with normal gear. It would more fit if you would use people who wear naxx gear and speed run mc with the best set up.

1.12 gear is already naxx gear.

[MakeMeLaugh]

Damn, some people still believe classic is hard to the point it will break guilds lol.

[Nitros14]

A little weird to compare people clearing hc with mythic gear to people doing stuff with normal gear. It would more fit if you would use people who wear naxx gear and speed run mc with the best set up.

Fully world buffing actually increases your damage more than full Naxxramas gear.

The private servers that got rid of world buffs had the right idea.

[ArenaDk]

1.12 gear is already naxx gear.

What ? I hope you dont mean R14. Because there is no class were R14 > Naxx

[Dalinos]

What ? I hope you dont mean R14. Because there is no class were R14 > Naxx

https://classic.wowhead.com/item=125...hals-longsword , 138-207, 59.48 DPS.
https://classic.wowhead.com/item=216...-qiraji-ripper , 114-213, 58.39 DPS.

I won't bother adding more, but I hope you can see that R14 gear for melee (you know, the ones that ACTUALLY DO DPS, such as warriors/rogues) is identical to AQ40 levels of weapons, which is JUST UNDER Naxx. So, if you get GM's/HW's 1handers, you're set till Naxx. THIS is what people used to clear MC. And BWL. Not only is the comparison of getting Mythic Nyalotha gear to do Heroic Nyalotha on point, it's relatively generous, since people waltzed in MC and BWL with gear that was TWO FULL TIERS ahead (in the case of MC) and ONE FULL tier ahead (in the case of BWL). Then people wonder why shit died instantly.

[probert]

*if* there's a guild breaker, it will be 4 horsemen due to the need for 8 geared tanks. however, i'm fairly confident that min/maxing allows offspec warriors / druids to step into the roles needed for the fight and that uber dps will shorten it enough that it won't be the wall it was back in the day.

[garicasha]

Is every single new raid in classic going to have a thread that puts its foot in its mouth?

AQ is going to fall over within hours (maybe less than 1hr?) within release

Guild breaker? lol be real here

On my server there are at least a dozen guilds that are killing Nefarian each week.

2-3 teams are doing it in under an hour
6 or so teams are doing it in three hours
2-3 teams are doing it in multiple nights

Yes, the 2-3 teams clearing it in under an hour will crush Naxx with ease.
But the other two groups? I'm guessing they fall apart at C'Thun or maybe even before.

Just because mmo-champ forum posters are disproportionately hardcore doesn't mean there aren't going to be tons of guilds that struggle in AQ40.

[Tojara]

I ask, what's hard about C'thun? There's a telegraphed laser beam that one shots you and has a long windup, with the only truly difficult part of the encounter being entering the room and having people spread out. The DPS requirement on C'thun is largely non-existent, and in the event that you lose a dozen people and limp through P1, there's virtually zero DPS requirement in the second phase.

You realize most guilds 15 years ago went in with 15-16 healers, and the norm for BWL is 10-11? Even your 'three hour' clears was a standard raid night 15 years ago, with a lot of guilds raiding anywhere from 2-4 nights.

I'm not sure why the barometer of success is based on the time it takes to clear the raids either, like it's a group of elite gamers. Barely any class is difficult to play in classic, and the only difference between guilds that clear raids in under an hour and 'insert x time here' is how willing people are to farm every single consumable available and run around collecting world buffs.

I hope you realize that some guilds aren't interested in dumping hundreds of gold each week into clearing a single raid in 45 minutes or less, when they could just as easily take an extra half an hour. Anybody who isn't retarded shouldn't take parses and speed clears on classic literally, like that 'godly' mage who somehow knows how to press frost bolt harder than you do. LOL. If the fights truly become difficult, which I doubt they will, people who are clearing stuff slower will realize all they need to do is go to the auction house more, or play their characters less by AFKing until the raid night comes.

Based on your criteria, apparently no guild exists between the 1-3 hour mark. Not that I take speed clearing seriously, but looking at my own server, most guilds clear the raid in 1-2 hours. Literally throwing world buffs and consumables on everybody, turns every single one of those guilds into a sub one hour guild, as would rushing towards the end, skipping every single trash pack, and doing loot at the end. Guilds like my own just do loot 2-3x throughout the entire instance, which I'm sure most do.

This isn't me shitting all over classic either, nor am I saying that classic isn't going to get harder. AQ40 is more difficult than BWL, and Naxxaramas is more difficult than AQ40. If people hit walls on C'Thun or Twin Emperors, so what? It's going to take them what, several attempts to actually kill it? For a live WoW comparison, this is like comparing LFR to Normal, and normal to maybe heroic in the first couple weeks at worst.2

[Jurwi]

I'm not talking about guilds that crushed Nefarian day one, btw. More like guilds that got him in the first 2 months or so.

Personally, I got my first Nefarian kill in a pug tonight, I'm way behind the curve, little disappointed how easy it was. So the question is will there be a guildbreaker, and if so, who?

Unconventional answers are the last 5, read 'em all before yah vote! Farming consumables also refers to stacking world buffs.

Also I probably need therapy as when I was writing this post, not only did I know the names of the bosses from memory, I correctly spelled Vem, Kri, and Yauj.

Nefarian is one of the easier bosses in BWL, it would be pretty weird if it was a major challenge for ANY guild.

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I'm not sure why the barometer of success is based on the time it takes to clear the raids either, like it's a group of elite gamers. Barely any class is difficult to play in classic, and the only difference between guilds that clear raids in under an hour and 'insert x time here' is how willing people are to farm every single consumable available and run around collecting world buffs.

I hope you realize that some guilds aren't interested in dumping hundreds of gold each week into clearing a single raid in 45 minutes or less, when they could just as easily take an extra half an hour. Anybody who isn't retarded shouldn't take parses and speed clears on classic literally, like that 'godly' mage who somehow knows how to press frost bolt harder than you do. LOL. If the fights truly become difficult, which I doubt they will, people who are clearing stuff slower will realize all they need to do is go to the auction house more, or play their characters less by AFKing until the raid night comes.

I'm not sure what else would be the barometer of success than clear times. I suppose you have some suggestion?

Also, 45 minutes clears take basically 10G worth of consumables and few world buffs that you can gather as a group. Doesn't take more than one hour. So you spend 1 hour to gather buffs, and 10G for consumables.

How is that "worse" option than spending 3 hours to clear the raid? Please, do elaborate.

From what I've seen, almost all people who whine about the use of world buffs and consumables are just lazy as shit. They don't even realise it would actually take less effort in the end to get those buffs and consumables compared to doing the raid without them, having to spend 2-3x the time.

[WaltherLeopold]

What ? I hope you dont mean R14. Because there is no class were R14 > Naxx

I didn't say >naxx, I said it's naxx gear, several r14 pieces are bis/sidegrades in Naxx for warrs, weapons sitting above aq40 weapons but under naxx weapons. So yes, it's Naxx gear.

Gloves, legs, shoulders, chest, wsg wrist, av ring and weapons are still incredibly good, thesre are all sidegrades or bis in Naxx, depending on your setup and gear availability

[Daymanmb]

If they can do C'Thun I don't think Naxx will be much of an issue - aside from the tank poaching for 4H that'll stiffle other guilds progress despite not even making it anywhere near as far yet.

I dont think 4H poaching will be as big a problem as it was in classic. Warriors are everywhere. Much more proliferate in classic, than in vanilla. Most decent guilds have 8+ warriors, gearing tank off spec with that end in mind.

[Celestraza]

Nefarian is one of the easier bosses in BWL, it would be pretty weird if it was a major challenge for ANY guild.

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I'm not sure what else would be the barometer of success than clear times. I suppose you have some suggestion?

Also, 45 minutes clears take basically 10G worth of consumables and few world buffs that you can gather as a group. Doesn't take more than one hour. So you spend 1 hour to gather buffs, and 10G for consumables.

How is that "worse" option than spending 3 hours to clear the raid? Please, do elaborate.

From what I've seen, almost all people who whine about the use of world buffs and consumables are just lazy as shit. They don't even realise it would actually take less effort in the end to get those buffs and consumables compared to doing the raid without them, having to spend 2-3x the time.

Elixir of mongoose alone is 10g on my realm. Add giants elixir, rage pots and health pots. Using the bear minimum for 1 raid is like 20-50g on our realm (depending on repotting mongoose).

5 deaths equal 50g on mongoose pots alone. Stack of plaguebloom goes for 60g on our realm....

[pinkz]

TBC and Shadowlands will be the guild breakers

[Tojara]

I'm not sure what else would be the barometer of success than clear times. I suppose you have some suggestion?

Also, 45 minutes clears take basically 10G worth of consumables and few world buffs that you can gather as a group. Doesn't take more than one hour. So you spend 1 hour to gather buffs, and 10G for consumables.

How is that "worse" option than spending 3 hours to clear the raid? Please, do elaborate.

Why do you keep acting like it's either 3 hours or under 1 hour? Like nothing exists between?

Speed clearing classic is an artificial construct made by the community to try and legitimize difficulty that is mostly absent in Vanilla. You spend time running around getting world just so you can log off and not play the game? For people excited about playing the game, this seem awfully hilarious and probably the worst iteration of raid logging that's been present in most iterations of the game.

Peoples definition of speed clearing is up to interpretation. There are people who literally rush to the end and just do loot all at once, shaving minutes off their time because of their precious 'speed' clearing. Most guilds are just going to do loot as they go with little concern about minimizing time spent during a 'parsing time', so they can artificially look better when they kill Nefarian and that timer stops. Guilds then proceed to go back and clear the several trash packs they cleared along the way, which 'speeds' up their clear, but isn't reflected in the actual time of clearing the raid. Lots of guilds I know literally just clear all of the trash in BWL because most guilds do it anyway (whether you do it post Nefarian, or prior to Nefarian in a realistic sense, makes no difference), and they do loot at several intervals throughout the dungeon, instead of just waiting until the end.

It's hilarious to me that you resort to calling people lazy for not wanting to scour the world for world buffs, simply to log off your character until designated raid times. A lot of people don't like world buffs for a few reasons, and it's not because they're simply lazy. Literally sitting idle on your main and waiting for raid times is pretty terrible design, especially when you consider there are numerous people toting the difficulty of classic as being other worldly, let alone 'hard'. Yet people do it to varying degrees because people will always take the easy way out when given the option, but that doesn't make it a good thing. If there's so much to do in Classic, it seems awfully strange to me that you get buffs and idle until raid day.

Again your post is odd because your criteria is 45 minutes or 3 hours? You can easily do all of BWL if you don't wipe in under two hours, with minimal consumables, while doing loot and every single trash pack along the way.

Speed to me isn't a barometer of success in classic just because some people say it is. It's constructed by people because there's nothing else to really tell one guild from the thousands of other guilds that roll over the content the week that it's released. If you go by speed on live, there are guilds that are technically 'faster' by logs than the best guilds in the world, simply because those guilds just don't give two flying fucks and would rather make gold. It doesn't make these guilds worse.

Rest assured when the difficulty of classic raiding content gets more and more difficult (talking by adding TBC, WoTLK, etc), you're going to see a pretty big drop in participation, because pressing one button with full consumables will no longer be an option when you throw 'mechanics' into the mix.

I still enjoy classic raiding because it's just time to chill with the buds doing trivial content. Raging at rogues because they missed a suppression device that popped up for our illustrious 'speed' clear doesn't interest me, nor does it interest most people. It's not that people are lazy in acquiring consumables or world buffs, it's simply, why accelerate this 'awesome' content that people enjoy so much by raiding for less than an hour a week?

[mhdoe]

Guild breaker in classic? This has to be a troll thread.