Transmog killed raiding (atleast for me) – simple suggestion for Shadowlands

[CalamityHeart]

Well what he is suggested was just a different form of the things you said were fine with. The special effects would be a limited time ‘flex’ while its out and then having it disappear forever or just allow the people who earned it to have that effect (I think he meant the first part but either way works). I don’t see anything wrong with this at all. It just highlights and flashes an achievement you’ve done, and for people who steam roll it solo in a year or two don’t get access to it. I don’t see any issue with this at all it’s just a different form of the limited things you brought up

Yes, but... the difference, as far as I see it, is that on the one hand, I work hard, earn a special cosmetic reward for clearing some manner of difficult content, and I get to keep that reward forever through transmog. I earned that, no one can take it away from me, and if people missed out on it, that's too bad.

On the other hand, I work hard, earn a special cosmetic reward for clearing some manner of difficult content, and then it goes away later, or is changed into something less than what I initially earned. I earned that, but it was taken away from me, and now what's the difference between me and someone who missed out on it? No one wins in the long run.

That's just my take. The long and short of it is that I'd rather earn a cosmetic reward that I keep forever and that no one else can steamroll and trivialize later, than earn a cosmetic reward that... just no one keeps. Like, what if you could ONLY wear or mog seasonal PVP gear during that season? Or what if the Mage Tower artifact appearances just vanished, even if you did it and earned it? I dunno, maybe there's some fleeting appeal to having content work that way, but I probably won't ever understand it. :/

[Nicholaes92]

Yes, but... the difference, as far as I see it, is that on the one hand, I work hard, earn a special cosmetic reward for clearing some manner of difficult content, and I get to keep that reward forever through transmog. I earned that, no one can take it away from me, and if people missed out on it, that's too bad.

On the other hand, I work hard, earn a special cosmetic reward for clearing some manner of difficult content, and then it goes away later, or is changed into something less than what I initially earned. I earned that, but it was taken away from me, and now what's the difference between me and someone who missed out on it? No one wins in the long run.

That's just my take. The long and short of it is that I'd rather earn a cosmetic reward that I keep forever and that no one else can steamroll and trivialize later, than earn a cosmetic reward that... just no one keeps. Like, what if you could ONLY wear or mog seasonal PVP gear during that season? Or what if the Mage Tower artifact appearances just vanished, even if you did it and earned it? I dunno, maybe there's some fleeting appeal to having content work that way, but I probably won't ever understand it. :/

Yeah there is already things like that in the game right now though so I don’t see how this is seen as a problem.

I’ll add an edit. Gladiator title is one example. You don’t get to keep it. It’s just seasonal. Limited rewards in either form seem fine to me

[GucciWarr]

You’re no longer a raider? You’re no longer anything! I see the way you post you have a knack for “CrEaTiViTy” but you’re just stacking random stats and corruptions together and call them builds, you also refuse to do anything near organized pve, why do you get a say with what new systems should be. You got to stop coming up with new builds and just play the damn game brother

[Minikin]

I guess even in my time off, I have to teach children.

Lemme guess. You teach drama. cuz:

Attitudes like this is why the US is disintegrating.

Here is the definition of the word disappear:

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/disappear

All of those definitions have the same thing in common: the object or person in question is no longer there

Here's the definition for remove:

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/remove

Notice anything? The definitions are basically identical to disappear except unlike the former, with remove there is a specific person or thing which has caused the object or person in question to be no longer there on purpose.

Oh man it must be my monitor but i just CANT seem to find the word remove in the OPs actual post or in the link https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/disappear.

OP wants special time limited items in raids that no longer appear (ie. they disappear) when the raid is no longer current (ie. those items no longer exist). In order for those items to no longer exist, Blizzard must remove them from the raid.

Not a hard concept, but damn if you're not trying to make it that way.

calm down chicken little. while to you it might seem like someone wanting a special light bulb on their pixels for a few months equates a country falling to pieces, not everyone is running about screaming that the sky is falling. Mythics already do reward a nice achievement, mount and some specific gear. OP is just asking for some more pixels. but hey, i guess to you that is equivalent to an extinction level event.

and yes, thats how the word "everyone" is used. im still waiting on the list though for this claim below:

What part of "Which disappears after it is no longer current" does NOT mean "remove" to you? I'd like to know, because it sure as fuck means remove to everyone else.

would really love to meet EVERYONE ELSE who is agreeing with you and disagreeing with OP.

[FossilFree]

I'll pass on mismatched clown suits thank you. Gear was ridiculous looking for anyone without a full set prior to transmog. Even full sets often looked ridiculous too, as they were missing things like boots and belts back then.

[Shadowspire]

Which raids have been Removed?

Naxxrammas classic, Zul'gurub, zul'aman and technically OG Ony lair

[LanToaster]

Not the page you linked. If you look on page 1, you can clearly see people whose names repeat. Also there is a date column. And yes, I am quite aware that it's at least 200K. As I said, that number doesn't prove what you seem to think it proves.

So, characters can appear up to three times. The Number still says what I say it says:
There are way more Characters who killed Heroic Nzoth than you said, and guess.
(You said something about 50K At most)

Which is factually incorrect. The reasons for which I have now repeatedly pointed out.

Wrong, you say its Incorrect, because of your interpretation of the FAQ, thats not fact, thats an Opinion.

And I am happy to accept that yes, I misclicked something and got a number wrong. It doesn't materially affect my argument except to demonstrate that I am open to being rational and correct myself if I get certain details wrong. Something you apparently are not willing to do.

It does affect your reasoning. If the Number you immediatly believed is of by over 100 times.
If you were to have any Facts I would actually believe them.

But the only thing you grab hold of is:
"I think the Global Statistics provided by a third party, only covers around 20% of the Overall Playerbase"
"I think a few years ago the Raid Participation for Heroic was only 10%"

No Facts, No Sources.

Nope, not at all. You're just being disingenuous. My pre-conceptions caused me to question your claim of what the website you were quoting said. So I questioned it. And what I found was that indeed, the website is not saying what you claim it is saying.

Again, you think it only Covers 20% of the Playerbase.

I haven't ignored them. I have gone and figured out what they actually mean. Again, you are the one bluntly refusing to accept what they mean.

Well, you should know what the Number of Nzoth kills means, because you brought it up.

I can tell you, we have alone 37000 Nzoth Hero Kills the last two weeks, over 2 Million over all.
Thats a hell of a lot kills.

Stop acting condescending. It just makes you look childish.

Now you are pouting because I told you how you process Data, and that there is a difference between fetching Profiles and analyze them, and fetching data for a Statistic.

Edit:
How about you grab only ONE (correct) source for any of the numbers you said.

I really begin to think you are afraid that every third player is a better player then you.


- - - Updated - - -

Naxxrammas classic, Zul'gurub, zul'aman and technically OG Ony lair

Interesting, the Items from Naxxramas are still around, but I wonder for the Zul skins.

I indeed forgot about Zul Gurub and Zul Aman.

[czarek]

Transmog didnt kill it. Lootfest, RNG titanfroge and titanforgeish things and sideways to take endgame gear like myth+ and world Q did that in general all of it in some way. Im not againt it but raiding isnt a main stream in WoW these days. Actually im playin classic and yay thats rading matter and fun :P

[Raelbo]

The Number still says what I say it says:
There are way more Characters who killed Heroic Nzoth than you said, and guess.

Thanks for proving me right. Good day.

[Phaine]

There's nothing wrong with his point of view... They use to (idk anymore because I don't play) release only gear for players who got rating above 2200 rating so even when xmog was out you could ONLY have this tint of gear if you were good enough to grab it. It shows prestige which is a massive part of MMOs if you haven't noticed yet.

Where's the prestige when a total scrub buys a boost to get said special color. being good enough isnt required at all anymore

[Powerogue]

I get the sentiment but just don't agree. People would just be mad that the armor with the cool particles that they earned is no longer cool and particle-y. I don't think there's a solution that would appease everyone here.

[Accendor]

Hey!

Ok, I don't want this to be a rant post about transmogging. I do really love the concept, and I want it to stay, however...

I used to be a quite active raider in the early days of WoW. I'm almost ashamed of admitting it, but the thrill of "hunting" the perfect items was what drove me. The mere feeling of walking around in Ironforge, decked in AQ40 gear while scrubs kneeled at you was f*cking amazing. That was one of the most important things of raiding for me, cool items. Tier gear was something special. It made people go, "wow, he's a really good raider" (or maybe "he's a fucking idiot spending all that time on WoW", but still), which I really miss.

These days people can just transmog the last years fashion and look pumped. And since most gear looks cool, everyone looks the same – nerd and scrub.

So – what can be done?

My suggestion is that the current expansions raid gear gets a special look. Maybe a glowing light, some blood dripping or W/E. When ever it's not the current tier gear anymore the effects dissapear (so it does not work for transmog).

This would, atleast for me, give back the desire to hunt items again. Stats are important, but it doesn't create the same "must have" feeling that cool looks do.

Do you agree?

/vexxan

If it's just temporary I still do not care.

[Polarthief]

You have a very unpopular minority opinion. This is the exact argument people used to slam transmog when it was first implemented nearly a decade ago and it's just as irrelevant today as it was back then. Get over it, dude.

I agree with this as someone who did covet purples in Vanilla and now has mythic raiding gear because I'm not a dumbass teenager. This is a 100% case of "get over it, OP". I absolutely love that everyone now just uses what they enjoy rather than being stuck in mismatched garbage for the majority of an expansion.

PS: As others have pointed out, elite PvP sets and the most current Mythic raid set still has roughly the same result. The only difference is people can now pay to get carried, but honestly, you could have done this in Vanilla too. The only thing was no one really thought to do that back then.

[Nicholaes92]

Where's the prestige when a total scrub buys a boost to get said special color. being good enough isnt required at all anymore

You just answered your own question. Obviously there is a prestige to something is someone is willing to pay for it. And those boosts for locked gear like this is pricey.

[Beerbill Society]

Xmog for all characters was a mistake, the current character you get the gear should be the only one with the appearance.

I know a lot of people love the xmog system, myself included, it was something new and refreshing for the game.

But at long run we didn't realize that along with the stats pruning, removing the appearance made gear feel less iconic/important, now when you get new loot the only difference is the ilvl and secondary stats which is 2 boring numbers that you don't even really care.

Removing the system now would be a no go but suppressing the access over characters could be a solution.

[Blayze]

If your sense of worth comes from other people not having something, you're the problem.