TBC, world buffs and consumables

[Nicholaes92]

Not the case at all with Warmane, it's less buggy than Classic was on launch, everything worked, bugfixing was done daily to catch all the minor stuff, class balance was correct.. Some stuff was buggy on new release (like Vashj/KT) but by the time the average guilds got there it was all fixed, by all accounts it was a very fluid and very polished game experience, and still is (though nobody plays it).

I'm very familiar with that server because I played from launch through to just before BT opened, helped a lot with bugreporting and was part of some of the first kills for many bosses. Warmane in 2017 was about as good as Nostalrius, if not not better, and on top of that it was extremely popular with the server being pretty much full 24/7 for a while. Then there was just a turning point around where it levelled off and players just started slowly bleeding, then after Sunwell (I didn't play then but friends did and got the server first etc) the server just turned into a ghost town, it's almost completely dead now, no guilds raiding sunwell.

Meanwhile their WOTLK server has been healthy for like a decade, and in its prior form it was a complete shit show of bugs, while the current iteration is about the same as the TBC (very good, very playable, everything works even minor nitpick issues were addressed). The fix they did to hunter steady shot clipping for their TBC realm was a first in private realm history AFAIK, prior to the fix no private server could properly do that SS ratio.



Yep that is an issue and absolutely the case with Warmane, it's a shit show and one of the reasons I lost the will to play. However, their WOTLK server is the same and for TBC they actually time gated it so that the shop was not available on launch and when they finally added it you couldn't buy "current" gear while content was new, it was like you could buy "previous" content items.

They launched a "no shop" "blizzlike" server too and that one died almost immediately and got merged back into the standard one. Strangely the shop servers are more popular because the casuals get to buy the gear they want. Believe it or not but players were vocally begging for them to add the shop to the TBC realms.

That was the issue with the server though, I mean it was pretty buggy from what I rememebr even though you are right it was the best, and it was super popular up until that fuckin cash shop bullshit showed up. This completely ruined 90% of tbc. And tbc just can’t be played like that. Wotlk can survive because a ton of people play wotlk for pvp and just love doing icc heroic over and over. But tbc just simply can’t be played with a cash shop which is why I believe (because it happened around the same time) why it died. And yeah opening up the ‘legit’ server did die off quickly but it was because it came late, I would have played that server but I already was too invested.

But even still, disregarding all those things, I believe tbc has way less.... replayability without FRESH servers as wotlk does. I love tbc I think it’s the best. But the replayability on a non fresh server feels meh. Idk what it is about wotlk but that shit is just better, for me at least, when it comes to just playing end expansion content over and over and over.

[Tsyplenk]

Except I both know I'm not wrong, and am not acting any differently.

You being a casual on a different game, doesn't make you equal to a casual on this game.

It's really that simple. Private server TBC isn't the same as TBC.




For him to do so multiple times, he'd have to respond more than once with more than "You'd get it by now if you were trying."

Which he hasn't.

So no, he hasn't, and failed to the first time too. For someone who's claiming to be right, you're really insisting to make yourself wrong at every avenue.

I don't know how many people need to tell you that you're talking bullshit, but here's another. Nobody is using consumables SOLELY just for dailies, farming, and daily gameplay, that's a massive waste that people aren't going to do. You keep going on about "raider mentalities" and crap, what do you think the game is balanced around? Do you really think they sit down at Blizzard and say "HEY GUYS, WE NEED TO BALANCE THE GAME AROUND DAILIES AND FARMING, FUCK ALL THE RAIDING AND PVP!".

Do yourself a favour and stop posting, you've already made a complete embarrassment out of yourself and every post makes it worse digging a deeper and deeper hole.

[Zka]

Aaah, the memories of priests in mooncloth getting oneshot by trash

One thing I really loved in BC is that you could often choose to wear more throughput at the cost of lower stamina and compensate with skill.

- - - Updated - - -

There’s literally no reason to start tbc off on 2.4.3 if this is possible

There are several big reasons... lots of gameplay and balancing improvements were made in the first half year of BC which changed the game completely. Most players would prefer not to be stuck with the sucky version of the game imho.

[Nitros14]

There are several big reasons... lots of gameplay and balancing improvements were made in the first half year of BC which changed the game completely. Most players would prefer not to be stuck with the sucky version of the game imho.

Isn't the whole point of classic or TBC classic to turn back the clock because we don't like the gameplay and balancing "improvements" that Blizzard has added to the game?

I'd like 2.1. The world buff and alchemy shit is fixed, but we don't have neutered Magtheridon, Solarian Kael'thas, heroic dungeons etc.

2.4 is designed for Sunwell Plateau to be the current end game raid. Releasing 2.4 but with Sunwell mysteriously not there and the other raids in "catch-up gearing" mode isn't right.

That's kind of the problem with classic too. The patch it's on is designed for Naxxramas as the current end game raid but we're releasing raids in their catch-up gearing state. 1.12 had Naxxramas out, removing it is already a major change.

[Nicholaes92]

One thing I really loved in BC is that you could often choose to wear more throughput at the cost of lower stamina and compensate with skill.

- - - Updated - - -



There are several big reasons... lots of gameplay and balancing improvements were made in the first half year of BC which changed the game completely. Most players would prefer not to be stuck with the sucky version of the game imho.

You must have misunderstood what I was getting at I wasn’t saying they have all the patch data so they can choose a different patch to leave tbc on. I’m saying they can run tbc patch by patch so things can change up and be interesting and not have just one class/spec rule all of tbc plus it would make prenerf dungeons and raids a possibility so we aren’t walking into nerfed raids on a buffed patch and just steamrolling everything

- - - Updated - - -

Except I both know I'm not wrong, and am not acting any differently.

You being a casual on a different game, doesn't make you equal to a casual on this game.

It's really that simple. Private server TBC isn't the same as TBC.




For him to do so multiple times, he'd have to respond more than once with more than "You'd get it by now if you were trying."

Which he hasn't.

So no, he hasn't, and failed to the first time too. For someone who's claiming to be right, you're really insisting to make yourself wrong at every avenue.

You truly do love embarrassing yourself don’t you. There had been yet another person to jump in to call you a fucking moron. How many more need to before you actually realize you are all alone in this stupid line of thinking? Honestly, you probably still think you’re right

[Nicholaes92]

You mean the third person to, once again, come in shouting "People don't do that cause I sure wouldn't and that means no one else ever did!" and not making a point at all?

Yes, I see it. It's no less embarrassing for the third person to do it. I however am enjoying the show, and am still waiting for this point I'm apparently missing.

If you think I'm embarrassed, maybe do a favor for both of us and end the conversation and get to the point? Because you haven't yet. Still. But hey, what am I to lose but a few more hours of not paying attention until you say the same thing again?

Oh, and also - I'd recommend not to get embarrassed on the internet to you and your friends. Learned that lesson a long time ago, pal.

What do you mean I haven't gotten to the point? I've repeated it a million times. Here I'll do it again.

If you were stacking elixers and flasks for dailies in tbc, you are a moron. Period. You are wasting your time and money doing this, there is no reason to do it. You are an actual moron if you do this.

Do you understand the point everyone has told you for the 10th time now? Probably not because you are dumb enough to use these for dailies in the first place

[Tsyplenk]

What do you mean I haven't gotten to the point? I've repeated it a million times. Here I'll do it again.

If you were stacking elixers and flasks for dailies in tbc, you are a moron. Period. You are wasting your time and money doing this, there is no reason to do it. You are an actual moron if you do this.

Do you understand the point everyone has told you for the 10th time now? Probably not because you are dumb enough to use these for dailies in the first place

I wouldn't bother mate, he's clearly stuck in some alternate, delusional universe where people take questing as serious as a high end raiding LOL. Just move on and forget about yet another idiot on these forums.

[Nicholaes92]

That sure is some opinion there you keep spouting.

Good for you that you have that opinion, but it's not any more true the more you say it.

Saying eating feces is gross is also an opinion.

[Nak88]

I can't wait to see these tiresome buffs gone ASAP, my guildies are so annoying with these buffs before raids, as if they were needed to clear Classic raids LMAO.

[Bigbazz]

That sure is some opinion there you keep spouting.

Good for you that you have that opinion, but it's not any more true the more you say it.

Where are you going with this? I've come to a few disagreements with Nich92 that haven't been pretty. But are you really wanting to sit here arguing about people using elixirs to do dailies? If you've just finished a raid and have left over elixir duration or if you're an alchemist with excess that you're not selling on AH sure, but it's definitely not the norm. The exception would be on the isle of Quel'Danas at the back end of the expansion, since the stat elixirs specific to that island were plentiful and you're doing a bunch of dailies in one location.

I mean it's really a pointless discussion, and it's gone round and round for so long that it's hard to see what point you were originally trying to make in regards to the discussion?

[wowclazzic]

on private servers you could CC mind controlled adds but on this video they are immune to CC, at 10:09 warlock tries to shadowfury both rogues but they were immune.

maybe this video is not from legit server? on private servers you couldn't get world buffs or stack elixirs.

[Tojara]

on private servers you could CC mind controlled adds but on this video they are immune to CC, at 10:09 warlock tries to shadowfury both rogues but they were immune.

maybe this video is not from legit server? on private servers you couldn't get world buffs or stack elixirs.

Early BC was a tumultuous time in regards to bug fixes, balance and overall mechanical changes. You absolutely could use world buffs and stack elixirs in TBC, at least in the beginning.

People often forget how quickly Black Temple actually came out, it was only like four months after the launch of the expansion, which is when they fixed pretty much everything. I see people commenting that they don't want neutered launch content, but even if they went with a progressive style there's not much wiggle room between 2.0 and 2.1. Loads of undocumented changes, bug fixes and tiny micro patches took place between that four month period.

If they even went with a progressive style system this time, there's no way they would start at anything before 2.1 (with Black Temple releasing in a different phase anyway). Launch BC was actually pretty terrible and felt very unrewarding. If people want to see an absolutely MASSIVE patch just go look at the changes they put into the game in 2.1. It might as well be a different game. While some might view this as amazing with lots of changes, it absolutely needed these changes because most facets of early BC were pretty broken from the ground up.

[Kralljin]

I see people commenting that they don't want neutered launch content, but even if they went with a progressive style there's not much wiggle room between 2.0 and 2.1. Loads of undocumented changes, bug fixes and tiny micro patches took place between that four month period.

There's a line between "we fixed a bug that made things killable" and the variety of documented nerfs that happened throughout TBC.

While some might view this as amazing with lots of changes, it absolutely needed these changes because most facets of early BC were pretty broken from the ground up.

I strongly doubt they go for progressive class changes or progressive itemization, so that would already remove a lot of issues.

[Nitros14]

Launch BC is a terrible idea. What everyone remembers as the good part of TBC is 2.1.

I'm less concerned about the specific patch as long as the behaviour of heroic dungeons and raids conforms to 2.1.

Like I say, who wants to do pitifully nerfed Magtheridon at TBC classic release? I mean he's already nerfed in a number of ways in 2.1 but at least the core mechanic of the fight is intact. By the Sunwell Patch you don't even need a cube click rotation.

[Tojara]

Launch BC is a terrible idea. What everyone remembers as the good part of TBC is 2.1.

I'm less concerned about the specific patch as long as the behaviour of heroic dungeons and raids conforms to 2.1.

Like I say, who wants to do pitifully nerfed Magtheridon at TBC classic release? I mean he's already nerfed in a number of ways in 2.1 but at least the core mechanic of the fight is intact. By the Sunwell Patch you don't even need a cube click rotation.

Well my whole thing with TBC in general is they actually have the ability to make 'changes' if they want too. The classic community (or a very vocal minority) basically ruined the chance of them making any kind of changes to the game. TBC is a fresh state and in my opinion if the opportunity presents itself, I wouldn't mind them actually changing shit that would make the game actually better. That could literally include making things more difficult in certain areas.

TBC in general is pretty weird. By the time 2.1 came out (which was ~4 months after TBC launched) literally 2/3 of the expansion was already accessible.

[ReVnX]

the beginning of the end in other words

that's why TBC is a hard pass

I feel TBC was the best iteration of the game

[czarek]

Hmm TBC realese is a hard thing to figure tbh. Game changes pretty much during patches just in TBC timeline. But probably they will take as base last 2.4.3 but im not sure about last part of it mount at 30 lvl. That was a bow for alts. Or they will push changes like this one in phases.

[Zarator8]

Well my whole thing with TBC in general is they actually have the ability to make 'changes' if they want too. The classic community (or a very vocal minority) basically ruined the chance of them making any kind of changes to the game. TBC is a fresh state and in my opinion if the opportunity presents itself, I wouldn't mind them actually changing shit that would make the game actually better. That could literally include making things more difficult in certain areas.

TBC in general is pretty weird. By the time 2.1 came out (which was ~4 months after TBC launched) literally 2/3 of the expansion was already accessible.

All they need to do is to reinstate the original, pre-nerf difficulty of encounters. That would be more than enough to challenge most players.

Though I agree that following the original release plan to a T might not be the best idea. Personally I'd prefer something like.

Phase 1: up to T4-T5 content
Phase 2: (6-9 months after): T6 content
Phase 3: (3-6 months after): ZA
Phase 4: (a few months after, dunno how much): Sunwell

Alternatively they could delay T5, but I think having to juggle between 10m Kara and 25m Gruul/Mag will feel terrible for a lot of guilds.

[Nitros14]

All they need to do is to reinstate the original, pre-nerf difficulty of encounters. That would be more than enough to challenge most players.

Though I agree that following the original release plan to a T might not be the best idea. Personally I'd prefer something like.

Phase 1: up to T4-T5 content
Phase 2: (6-9 months after): T6 content
Phase 3: (3-6 months after): ZA
Phase 4: (a few months after, dunno how much): Sunwell

Alternatively they could delay T5, but I think having to juggle between 10m Kara and 25m Gruul/Mag will feel terrible for a lot of guilds.

Six to nine months until Black Temple? In the original release in 2007 it was only four and a half months from TBC launch to Black Temple.

I think it's fair to point out that the "original, pre-nerf difficulty" of the encounters is a tricky thing.

When Gruul and Magtheridon released they were wildly overtuned. Shatter did a stupidly massive amount of damage, a hotfix in march reduced it by 50% along with a significant health nerf for Gruul.

Magtheridon was nerfed multiple times before 2.1 which is the state most guilds fought him in since he remained that way for about a year. His original pre-nerf version was never killed.

February 23rd 2007
"Hellfire Channelers now cast dark mending less frequently in the Magtheridon encounter.
Magtheridon's Blast Wave should now function properly."

This fix took place one day before the world first on Magtheridon.

March 21st 2007
"The Magtheridon encounter has been rebalanced to be somewhat easier and should now better keep to proper raid progression"

This fix reduced the number of people needed in the cube rotation from 20 to 15, reduced damage output and health on the channelers and reduced the number of infernal spawns.

May 22nd 2007
"Magtheridon
Hellfire Warders have been significantly reduced in difficulty.
Hellfire Channeler's Shadow Bolt Volley has been made much more easy to interrupt.
The melee damage of Burning Abyssals has been significantly reduced."

Then there was a change that let you click again if you fucked up your click.

November 13th 2007
"Hellfire Citadel: Magtheridon's Lair
Mind Exhaustion is not applied until Magtheridon is successfully banished."

Finally there was the Sunwell patch that neutered him into a trivial encounter.

March 25th 2008
"Many gameplay elements of the encounters in Magtheridon's Lair have been changed to decrease their overall complexity and difficulty."

Specifically, number of infernals reduced again. The earthquake no longer takes place close to blast nova. No longer need a cube rotation.

So which Magtheridon should we get? The nearly impossible stupidly overtuned one? The hotfixed one? The nerfed one? The again nerfed one in 2.1? The again nerfed one in 2.3? Or the trivial one in 2.4?

This is a problem for a lot of bosses. Lady Vashj was massively overtuned when she had a mass mind control and the sporebat cloud did damage instantly, should we get that version or the 2.1 version? Many Serpentshrine bosses went through a number of iterations in early BC.

High Astromancer Solarian went through almost as many iterations as Magtheridon.

There was the unkillable release version with 5.5 million HP and unresistable spells that did way more damage and only fired arcane missiles in a frontal cone.

The very difficult one after that that Death Wish killed for world first in April with reworked arcane missiles and nerfed HP. Blizzard has a super helpful hotfix note for this one.

April 12th 2007
"Boss creatures have received additional tuning and polish."

Then the 2.1 version that most people encountered where her spells were resistable and you could use a couple people in arcane resist gear to soak wrath of the astromancer.

May 22nd 2007
"Arcane Resistance will now prove effective against High Astromancer Solarian's spells.
High Astromancer Solarian now summons fewer Solarian agents, and the Solarium Agents now deal less damage.
High Astromancer Solarian's hit points have been greatly reduced."

And the trivial version that everyone killed on the first pull when they turned the encounter's core mechanic into a geddon bomb.

"The spells cast by High Astromancer Solarian have been extensively reworked. Wrath of the Astromancer is a now completely different in function. Mark of the Astromancer has been renamed to Light of the Astromancer and no longer reduces Arcane resistance."

Personally, I would just go with the 2.1 version of everything. Nothing is overly broken or overtuned and nothing is overly trivial.

[Heathy]

in release BT illidan had an ability that had to be blocked or it killed the tank. shear i think it was. it made it so pretty much only warriors could tank him, maybe palas could get 100% block i think they couldn't and druids can't block at all so that was eventually removed.

the boss fights did get nerfed as well over the course of the patches, I know one of the last patches it may have been the wrath release patch or the one before that, lowered the boss hp by something like 50% prior to that there was a nerf to kaelthas that lowered his adds hp by 10% each. there were several nerfs I originally remember heroics being very difficult to heal tanks that weren't really geared for it, but when I started t5 the battle/guardian elixir thing was already in the game, I do remember using mana oils though but I think they did also combine food and drink buffs into the well fed that is still in the game today.