Teeth for enhancement in shadowlands?

[Crysis]

Give me 2H and I'll be fine, no matter the dps.

[Octania]

-purge removes 2 buffs
-tremor usable while feared
-Interrupt cd reduced to 6 seconds.

Hahahahahahah. That was a good one, please god don't tell me that you are serious about this.

1) Going 2 for 1 on globals against a rdruid on a cheap spammable spell is not happening.

2) sure, make awareness and predicting stuff unnecessary and remove outplay potential for good players. Lets all just tank fears and press tremor after the fact. Whats next? Allowing Priests do do SW (Premonition nowadays) while already in Blind/Sheep? Let Rogue use Cloak while already in Hoj? There is a reason as to why what you are asking for has been taken away and I would wager any decent player would prefer to have it stay that way.

3) Yeah... just no. No point spelling out why that would be a bad idea.

[Segus1992]

Meta has been rpm for too long(always?). If your melee class is similar to rogue, you're fine. If not you're not. Other strenghts have been nerfed to non-existence. If blizzard wants enhancement to be in a unique strong position in pvp.

-purge removes 2 buffs
-tremor usable while feared
-Interrupt cd reduced to 6 seconds.
-Heals actually heal even if its you or team mates.
-Fine burst similar to what's described in this post.

Done! Don't even need any further survivability. Dont need further cc. No need to be like other classes. Rogues warriors monks dhs dks will still kick your ass but clothies will search for holes to get into.

But people will whine for these strong points even tho enhancement doesn't have any survivability, ms debuff, cc or anti cc. Blizzard will cave in and make arena viable for only comps similar to rpm again.

We end up beggin for burst and some survivability to endure constant train of rogues.

First, your suggestions are extremely wildly over the top.

Second, the bolded part - Hex, Capacitor Totem, long range spammable slow, literally the only melee with a ranged interrupt, Grounding Totem, Tremor Totem - yes Enhancement has issues, but let's not stupidly exaggerate.

Halved cooldown for the best interrupt of any melee spec? OK.

[pinkz]

enh spec has short periods of power that made them good certain times in WOW history, and short periods within expansions

BFA is a good example, enh started out powerful, but they weren't OP. at the start of the first arena season, making it into the top ten

right away, key PVP streamers, former glads, announcers, and ones who get to talk to blizz, cried right away. saying they were OP off healing too much (yet their ret pal does one minor heal with same effect). reason why? it was affecting their status quo of crutching on classes that have been OP thru out WOW history. even if it did not affect their class, they complained tp help protect their classes. cant have a enh going head to head with a key streamer/blizz bois WW giving him a hard time, or even worse actually challenge a MAGE which they did at start of BFA affecting alot of key streamer/blizz bois directly, or indirectly affecting players on their teams. blizz nerfed near INSTANTLY enhance shams to being unviable in arenas, along with being a novelty in BGs

there is no one left to cry for enh sham to get 2h weapon back. you have overpopulated classes loaded in the game now. fury wars cry for SMF and they get it. FDKs cry for 2H and they get it.

mages cry to play their other specs, and they are all viable like fire now (has frost union in tears) in raids and arenas, frost always PVP arenas and BGs, arcane seriously strong in BGs, WPVP, and being discovered in arenas

you can't say this for a lot of other classes. especially enh shams

[wushootaki]

enh spec has short periods of power that made them good certain times in WOW history, and short periods within expansions

BFA is a good example, enh started out powerful, but they weren't OP. at the start of the first arena season, making it into the top ten

right away, key PVP streamers, former glads, announcers, and ones who get to talk to blizz, cried right away. saying they were OP off healing too much (yet their ret pal does one minor heal with same effect). reason why? it was affecting their status quo of crutching on classes that have been OP thru out WOW history. even if it did not affect their class, they complained tp help protect their classes. cant have a enh going head to head with a key streamer/blizz bois WW giving him a hard time, or even worse actually challenge a MAGE which they did at start of BFA affecting alot of key streamer/blizz bois directly, or indirectly affecting players on their teams. blizz nerfed near INSTANTLY enhance shams to being unviable in arenas, along with being a novelty in BGs

there is no one left to cry for enh sham to get 2h weapon back. you have overpopulated classes loaded in the game now. fury wars cry for SMF and they get it. FDKs cry for 2H and they get it.

mages cry to play their other specs, and they are all viable like fire now (has frost union in tears) in raids and arenas, frost always PVP arenas and BGs, arcane seriously strong in BGs, WPVP, and being discovered in arenas

you can't say this for a lot of other classes. especially enh shams

You also forget a crucial point. There are die-hard enhancement players that will play the spec and know it in and out regardless of how good or bad it is. So if they are able to beat people when the spec is considered underwhelming, when it gets brought up to par with others, those players are downright monsters because they have been working uphill for so long.

[shammypie]

Hahahahahahah. That was a good one, please god don't tell me that you are serious about this.

1) Going 2 for 1 on globals against a rdruid on a cheap spammable spell is not happening.

2) sure, make awareness and predicting stuff unnecessary and remove outplay potential for good players. Lets all just tank fears and press tremor after the fact. Whats next? Allowing Priests do do SW (Premonition nowadays) while already in Blind/Sheep? Let Rogue use Cloak while already in Hoj? There is a reason as to why what you are asking for has been taken away and I would wager any decent player would prefer to have it stay that way.

3) Yeah... just no. No point spelling out why that would be a bad idea.

@2 it was better in the past, paladins weren't suppose to burst down rogues and shamans were the kings of anti fear. homogenization killed off a lot of the game and it was by going back to classic playstyles that saved it any decent player would want their class to have meaningful abilities that isn't easily replaceable by FOTM classes.

- - - Updated - - -

enh snip ms

yeah it's pretty sad it happens all the time popularity = class power.

[Oturanboa]

I'm not gonna quote people but here it is.

Those suggestions wouldn't even be enough for enhancement to be good enough. Top tier pvp has smeared rogues all over it.

Druids can come out from stealth with a 5 seconds stun. -Spams- you UNDISPELLABLE cyclone. You know what's best part of it? Since they are a hot class, they don't loose much while doing it. They can also hot-run out-restealth and repeat.

Every class has their ABSURD treat.

- Rogues aren't OP for having kidney shot. It's OP because they have it on top cheapshot. And it's op because they have it on 20 fucking seconds cooldown.
- Paladins have bubble ON TOP OF bop. With redicilous burst.
- Warlocks can literally 3 shot you. With GUARANTEED crit. -On top of- having spamable cc. Also very good survivability which lets them just sit in the middle of the fucking arena.

Warlock/rogue/mage/priest/druid (healers ofc) Have been OP for so long, we're just ok with it. This is what top tier arena is. When i mention an edge for enhancement (which wouldn't even make it fit for arena because rogues) people reply with "haha". Yes indeed haha. We all know it won't happen.

We have hex?
Only cast you ever do. People always have interrupt ready for it. You will never make it out when it matters. With 1 fucking minute cooldown for the worst cc in game.

We have capacitor totem?
Can just walk out of it. Even if not. 3 seconds duration. 2 SECONDS DELAY. Seriously sounds like a joke.

Ranged interrupt?
Wind shear cooldown 12 sec. Duration 3 seconds.
Pummel cooldown 15 sec. Duration "4" seconds. Best interrupt part is debatable at least. And yea it's not the only ranged interrupt in game by far. How much would you miss ranged interrupt when you have ranged stun on top of melee interrupt?

Grounding and tremor totem?
They are totems with 5 hp. Against good players, they could also be called pseudo interrupts without school lockout.

Seriously all these skills that enhancement can use in pvp, can EASILY be countered. Fighting against enhancement is little better than a pve encounter or a mini boss that you should memorize 2-3 things. If you're a rogue, dont. Just kill. Not even a mini boss.

------------------------------------------------------

Do you guys even play enhancement? What do you do in arena? Did you even watch any enhancement pvp video? Is there a tactic that doesn't include boring your enemies out of their minds and making them waste their CDs while you run around pillars?

Do you know what are best essences for enhancement? Healing ones!

I don't even have to say anything. Representation of 10 years speaks for itself. Better rotation won't make shit for enhancement pvp. Let us use spirit link before we even talk about enhancement.

- - - Updated - - -

Tell me when is the last time you said -fuck- under your breath when you see an enhancement shaman in arena on enemies' team.

Doesnt it sound like a joke? Seeing an enhancement shaman in arena?

Have you tried going 2 rogues into arena? It's fun! I'm not the best pvper but going 2 rogues and 2 mages is fun. Have you ever tried going in arena as 2 enhancement shamans? Wouldn't it be a funny joke.

[cocomen2]

Tell me when is the last time you said -fuck- under your breath when you see an enhancement shaman in arena on enemies' team.

Doesnt it sound like a joke? Seeing an enhancement shaman in arena?

That exactly a thing i say ever from wotlk to Legion.
(in Legion i was like Yeah artifact weapon is a chance to save enhancement => artifact weapon skills removed from the game)

Arena
Dk+enhancement => lets focus shaman its easy target
Mage+enhancement =>lets focus shaman its easy target
Rogue+enhancement =>lets focus shaman its easy target

You got idea......

Blizzard way to balance classes in pvp :

a) If class "X" can beat a shit out of shaman, class "X" doing okay.

b) class "Y" lost duel to shaman, nerf shaman into oblivion.

Cries in shaman RIP

Funny thing that they said that gust of wind works tooooo similar to mage blink .... yeah baby with travel time in AIR, IT was unique+fun tool .... even heroic leap works more like blink of mage than gust of wind.
rogue shadow step... they are Fine


But then .... devs cant nerf warriors,rogues and mages.

Core problem that they balance classes around their utility in PVE, without care about pvp...

1)PVE Player need to be smart enough -> to walk out of Fire , and as bonus to do Okayish Dps.

You can faceroll as DH or play piano like Feral but if you are Okayish its enough to be useful.

2)PVP Thats where its turns 180*
“ . . . it ain’t about how hard you hit; it’s about how hard you can get hit, and keep moving forward.

And you can bet shaman TAKE a most damage in pvp :no invisibility, no immunity , no crazy-mobility , as bonus mail armor looks like shit and feels the same.

Jack of all trades , MASTER OF NONE, while Paladin, Druid,Monk doing ok in same Hybrid position.

(TLDR utterly trash champ) i mean Thrall is lucky that Garrosh didnt ripped his head off in duel.

Shaman wields a Shield .... but cant block a shit..... why bother then?

UNPRUNE Gust of Wind or gtfo

I hope i was able to give you a smile, with my runt. Do not play shamans , stay healthy kids.

[Oturanboa]

2) sure, make awareness and predicting stuff unnecessary and remove outplay potential for good players. Lets all just tank fears and press tremor after the fact. Whats next? Allowing Priests do do SW (Premonition nowadays) while already in Blind/Sheep? Let Rogue use Cloak while already in Hoj? There is a reason as to why what you are asking for has been taken away and I would wager any decent player would prefer to have it stay that way.

I just have to quote this because this is serious about shaman as a whole.

Why does rogues or priest have to get same thing we get? Every time shaman gets a spell. Other classes get similar or better versions of it. Why?

Mages got spellsteal included in tbc or wrath. They didn't have it. Now they just do? Do you know about kleptomania? Just simply the best version of purge? Steals, not remove, steals -all- spells from target with 30sec cd. Why?

Why druids can have the most OP version of crowd control in the game and why we can't say "whats next? hex can't be removed now too?" Are you aware hex can be removed by mages, shamans AND druids along with all healers? GL hexing druids btw. Just immune. Absolute worst CC in game.

DURING THE RUBBISH CALLED HOMOGENIZATION:
Other classes got better versions of what we had. We got our edgy stuff nerfed to be in line with similar spells. And we got WORST versions of things we can get. Which wasn't a lot to begin with...

Why didn't rogues' stun get homogenized while our interrupt did? Why they can keep you in stun for 11 seconds without ANY chance for "outplay potential"? Why is it normal for rogues and unthinkable for shaman?

Slowing movement speed was rare. Ranged slow was rarer. Now everyone has it and slow doesn't even matter anymore because everyone has absurd mobility.
Frost shock was called OP now it's just something everyone has as passive. What did we get in return?

Have you tried purging druid heals in arena? It's just impossible without something ---OP--- (and unique) like "kleptomania". Screw druid, every class has so many active or passive trivial shit active on them all the time, purge is just a rarely used pve spell for enhancement (yes its valuable for elemental since it plays with procs in arena, simply not the case for enhancement).

We had tons of strong points. Windfury was just a cherry on top for an awesome fun pvp cake. They all faded into oblivion with constantly evolving meta (into area of second immunities and cooldown resets) while every class got what shaman had with better version WHILE getting new shiny toys. Now shaman, specially enhancement just doesn't have a place in pvp.

What is the selling point of enhancement? What do you think of as an edge over rogue or warrior or just whatever. Better rotation will not change ANYTHING.

Don't believe me? Duel a low rating rogue a hundred times and post a video here for us to judge.

I would understand blizzard wanting a meta for twitch streamers to enjoy so they just don't include certain specs or classes in there. But retard shamans not wanting OP buffs in a game with tons of fucking "IMMUNITIES" is just not understandable by me. What is your deal? How are immunities ever justified while we have such shit survivability. Such shit cc capability. Such shit burst capability. Are there numbers that add up in a twisted way i can't understand?

Having worst version of every arena tool would be ok if it was a RARELY good selection of tools. It's not the case neither... Seriously what is the deal?

-----------------------------------------------

After all, point of this thread is not even to make enhancement fit for arena. I know it won't be. So it's pointless to discuss these things.

All i want is some good version of a kind of burst to have fun in battlegrounds. At least to be able to apply some preassure in BGs and get some killing blows every now and than. Casual unrated battlegrounds have always been something i enyojed. Respecing to ele while queuing just hurts.

[kosajk]

Hahahahahahah. That was a good one, please god don't tell me that you are serious about this.

1) Going 2 for 1 on globals against a rdruid on a cheap spammable spell is not happening.

2) sure, make awareness and predicting stuff unnecessary and remove outplay potential for good players. Lets all just tank fears and press tremor after the fact. Whats next? Allowing Priests do do SW (Premonition nowadays) while already in Blind/Sheep? Let Rogue use Cloak while already in Hoj? There is a reason as to why what you are asking for has been taken away and I would wager any decent player would prefer to have it stay that way.

3) Yeah... just no. No point spelling out why that would be a bad idea.

i can say you have right with point 3. 6 sec cd with 3 sec silence interrupt is over the top but rest is not a big deal
would add some more ideas from myself like
-ancestral guidance getting back as talent
(or)
-wolfs heal while dealing dmg, as atm its a bit bland skill
(and)
-astral shift removing magic effects when used while also being usable while stunned and dmg reduction or duration increased significantly
-hex usable with MSW stacks to be instant
-old frost shock freeze pvp talent would be sweet utility all around although limited to main target to not go over the top with new talent

atm we are bleeding corpse in water full of sharks on arenas and SL do not change that state at all even with all grate and needed changes it come with PvE vise.
We can`t outrun, we can`t survive enough, we can`t control, we can`t burst (should change in SL a bit actually with proper legendary but hard to be sure at this point, especially without reference to other`s burst potency which is rather high already and can be even higher with legendaries).

[Shaetha]

Some of these suggestions are just completely out of touch.

6 sec CD 30 yard range interrupt? Even with no spell lockout that would be incredibly annoying. Annoying is not healthy for the game, and an interrupt with that short of a CD with a spell lockout is so insanely OP it's not even worth considering.

Tremor with no counterplay and no skill requirement? Hello? It was changed like that intentionally. It could be a PVP talent though. THAT REMOVES THE AOE.

Purge dispelling two buffs? Yeah, let's counter in one GCD what someone else spends two to accomplish, and no, things like trinkets, talents, and echo of light don't count. You don't get to count things other classes have to sacrifice when talking about something you're asking for baseline, so, once again, maybe a pvp talent that adds a short cooldown so it can't be used against multiple targets. Locking down one person is fine, but it should be all you can do.

Almost all of it is, "I want to be able to do everything myself." Guess what, that's the definition of not balanced, and Enh Shamen are designed around larger groups with so many area spells. It's okay for not every spec to be good at everything, and PVP is not only arena. People keep saying "[class] can do this" Well, you can be a healer and a ranged DPS as well, so you need to also include that when you say something another class can do.

[Skildar]

I hope i was able to give you a smile, with my runt. Do not play shamans , stay healthy kids.

I cannot agree more with this statement.

[Oturanboa]

Almost all of it is, "I want to be able to do everything myself." Guess what, that's the definition of not balanced, and Enh Shamen are designed around larger groups with so many area spells. It's okay for not every spec to be good at everything, and PVP is not only arena. People keep saying "[class] can do this" Well, you can be a healer and a ranged DPS as well, so you need to also include that when you say something another class can do.

Which pvp situation do you think enh shameeeen are good at? What are those "so many area spells" are exactly? Do you suppose enhancement can take out 2 rogues with crash lightning while dpsing down a warrior? Or is it the capacitor totem stun that lasts 3 seconds and activates after 2 seconds which only stuns the clueless players?

Arena is THE place classes are getting tuned around btw so it's the perfect example to give. Even if it wasn't, BGs are even worse place than arena for enhancement to be in.

Yes i can be a healer or ranged dps as well. I can also play another game which is completely irrelevant. The reason for this topic to exist is to discuss enhancement as the tittle "Teeth for enhancement in shadowlands?" suggests.

It is more than obvious enhancement falls short compared to "any spec" in the game when it comes to pvp. Even shadow priests would say that.

I -know- tunnel vision tactics won't come back.
I -know- suggestion i made won't be implemented.
I -know- lining up crowd control and defensive buffs will remain to be the only available tactic in the arena. (And im not suggesting it to change)

And most importantly

I -know- enhancement won't be getting crowd control or defensive abilities. This is why this thread exist.

Since enhancement won't be getting those tools which makes certain specs stay on top of arena. ALSO since enhancement won't recieve any other tools (it used to have) to be any kind of game changer in arena... I'm saying enhancement should at least be getting meaty spells with medium cooldowns and hard hits. Without the cc and defensives, it's already sitting ducks. At least we should be able to have some fun in BGs against unexpecting enemies. Which currently is a joke to hit another player outside of ascendance (which is 15 seconds on 3min cooldown, mind you).

Those suggestions are what enhancement used to have. Which are outrageously op. Which aren't even on the same line as...
-Having spammable undispelable crowd control.
-Having -targeted- stuns on short cooldowns.
-Having ---immunities--- , twice for some...
Things enhancement HAD were a wrench in the gears for arena's CC & Defensive playstyle. That's why they removed without being replaced with something else. That's why i mentioned them.

Got my point?

[Scrotles]

Enh has always been dogshit in pvp. This ain't anything new.

Also, enhancement has been great pve wise in a lot of expansions. So to that dude saying shaman are meant to be group healers or whatever that stupid comment was you're clueless.

I can remember clear as day Enh being nasty during Wrath, cata, MoP they were literally one of the best DPS specs, Legion they were middle of the pack. And during 8.3 it's one of the most fun, and burst dmg specs. It's just nobody plays shaman because of blizz forgetting them. Everyone gets so up in arms about numbers on this forum its comical.

Half of you are on a break from bfa because your guild couldnt get past 7/12M. Enhance has always been fun to play. Been my main since Wrath and wouldn't have any other class. Again, ill admit bfa was bad. But 8.3 the way its been playing will the correct corruptions. It's how it felt to play in MoP, which is where the spec was the absolute best. And how the spec is looking to play in SL.

Stop being babies.

[Lubefist]

Enh hasn't always been shit in pvp at all, stop exaggerating.

[Scrotles]

Enh hasn't always been shit in pvp at all, stop exaggerating.

LOL when has it been good? When has it not continued to be trained by a mage, rogue, lock, paladins. Please Elaborate.

[cocomen2]

LOL when has it been good? When has it not continued to be trained by a mage, rogue, lock, paladins. Please Elaborate.

LOL, last time shaman was OP that was sweet TBC (uncaped WF + 6 sec earth shock)


Since then ...... they cut them piece by piece .... now parody on Enhancement wolfs , Xuen the White Tiger , feels better and more powerful than faken Feral Spirit.

I want new class to the game , but i am not against of removing Shaman as class, to free them from their misery.

[Lubefist]

LOL when has it been good? When has it not continued to be trained by a mage, rogue, lock, paladins. Please Elaborate.

Wtf?

Anyway. In TBC enhancement was basically a free glad in s4 in 3s as rogue/enh/rdruid and in 5s in trifecta comp. Enhancement shaman team won MLG championship in wotlk (beastcleave), Turbocleave was excellent in cata (played it to 2400'ish myself), in MoP both elemental and enhancement were both highly viable, elemental more so I admit but still, in WoD lock/enhance/rdruid was disgusting in the first season, dunno about the rest of the WoD or Legion since I quit. In BFA enhancement suck, but so does many other specs that used to be even S tier.

There

[Shinrael]

Im tired of people trying to justify how bad Enhancement Shaman is, roll a real dps class. Shaman was meant to be a group healer, to some extend maybe a range dps but not a melee DPS in the first place. Every time I see those guys tooling around with this spec it makes me want to chuckle.

lol what now. Do you even know what expansion it is now?

[Oturanboa]

Wtf?

Anyway. In TBC enhancement was basically a free glad in s4 in 3s as rogue/enh/rdruid and in 5s in trifecta comp. Enhancement shaman team won MLG championship in wotlk (beastcleave), Turbocleave was excellent in cata (played it to 2400'ish myself), in MoP both elemental and enhancement were both highly viable, elemental more so I admit but still, in WoD lock/enhance/rdruid was disgusting in the first season, dunno about the rest of the WoD or Legion since I quit. In BFA enhancement suck, but so does many other specs that used to be even S tier.

There

You are exaggerating at least as much as we do. Enhancement shaman once won a tournament 10 years ago? Ok than, we should stop whining.

Talking for shadowlands: On paper, we don't have the tools an-arena-winning-class has. If they overtune enhancement a lot, yes it can be in arena but we all know they won't. Even if they do, it will be very short lived. Just like in bfa 1st season. Simple as that. If you think we do have tools to outgun a warlock mage or rogue, please help us understand.