Potential Class Hype

[Teriz]

The Pathfinder RPG has "Drunken Master" with fire breath and drinking. I saw mentions of a 'drunken monk' prestige class for the Monk Handbook for DnD, but since I could not find any way to verify that, I cannot say it is, but I thought it was worth mentioning.

Not much of a common trope eh?

The moment you start talking about what NPCs start doing or stop doing, you're no longer talking classes, since NPCs do not have "classes".

I'm talking about the classes, not the NPCs. Frost Mages don't use Necromancy, Frost DKs do. That's a fundamental difference between the Mage and DK classes.

To say my necromancer spec is 1:1 with death knights is blatant trolling at this point. Not to mention you're, again, moving goalposts. A new class with a blood healing spec would change in nothing the blood tank spec of the death knight.

Your Necromancer concept isn't very popular.

And you've repeatedly failed to prove that this is a requirement. Otherwise, I can create arbitrary rules too. For example, "you tinker lacks something very majorly important to become a playable class: a playable Warcraft 3 campaign hero. After all, all three expansion classes so far came from playable WC3 campaign heroes. You never played a tinker in the official campaigns."

And you cannot disprove this arbitrary rule of mine because it's based on facts, too.

You must not be reading a lot of the posts in this thread. Many people mentioning Bards are wondering what their place is exactly in WoW, and what exactly they would do.

There's a reason for that.

[EasyE]

Tinker sounds possible and I would like to see them as class.

Necromancer would be perfect class for shadowlands. Considering this and that we have already death knights, warlocks and shadow priest I am pretty sure they are not gonna happen.

Bard? This is warcraft. They have absolutely no ground for this. Adding them would be nonsense. Almost like monks.

Monks and pandaren have been part of Warcraft lore since the beginning.

[Ielenia]

[QUOTE=Teriz;52337122]Not much of a common trope eh?
So now you're backpedaling as I proved that WoW is not the only RPG that used drunken monks. And, again, "drunk-fu" is a common trope of the oriental martial arts. The difference is that most other games tend to take themselves too seriously to go toward that silly route.

I'm talking about the classes, not the NPCs. Frost Mages don't use Necromancy, Frost DKs do. That's a fundamental difference between the Mage and DK classes.

Liches aren't a class.

Your Necromancer concept isn't very popular.

So what? You never said "popular necromancer concepts". Just "necromancer concepts." But, sure, I'll bite. Come on, link me some of those "popular necromancer concepts" you claim are "1:1 death knights".

You must not be reading a lot of the posts in this thread. Many people mentioning Bards are wondering what their place is exactly in WoW, and what exactly they would do.

There's a reason for that.

It doesn't change the fact that all you got is pure conjecture. Anyways. Go on. Do try to disprove my arbitrary rule that completely eliminates your beloved class concept from ever becoming a playable class. Without disproving your own arbitrary rules in the process.

[Teriz]

So now you're backpedaling as I proved that WoW is not the only RPG that used drunken monks. And, again, "drunk-fu" is a common trope of the oriental martial arts. The difference is that most other games tend to take themselves too seriously to go toward that silly route.

You named 1 RPG game out of thousands, and you're not even sure about the second one. That shows that the trope isn't common in RPGs. Quite the opposite in fact.

Liches aren't a class.

We were comparing DKs to Mages. Those are classes.

So what? You never said "popular necromancer concepts". Just "necromancer concepts." But, sure, I'll bite. Come on, link me some of those "popular necromancer concepts" you claim are "1:1 death knights".

Yes, the necromancer concepts that commonly pop up in forums. In fact my recent thread was a prime example of it. The majority of posters in there wanted a Blood healing spec, a Lich Frost spec, and an unholy spec with monstrosities and some sort of plague or poison.

1:1 with DKs.

It doesn't change the fact that all you got is pure conjecture. Anyways. Go on. Do try to disprove my arbitrary rule that completely eliminates your beloved class concept from ever becoming a playable class. Without disproving your own arbitrary rules in the process.

Sorry, I have no idea what you're talking about here. I'm simply saying that having a link to a WC3 hero would make the Bard a more acceptable future WoW class concept. I'm sorry if mentioning something that would help the Bard class concept makes you upset.

[Sorshen]

Imagine not picking the ultimate seducer and tunemaster, the bard!

[Ielenia]

You named 1 RPG game out of thousands, and you're not even sure about the second one. That shows that the trope isn't common in RPGs. Quite the opposite in fact.

No, I pointed out that you're wrong in saying that WoW is the only RPG game. And I pointed out that the "drunk fu" trope is common in the mainstream media. Just look at all those shows that have martial arts in them, from live-action movies to cartoon shows, have a "drunk-fu" practitioner. Other games tend to have serious versions of the monk because they're serious games, and not whimsical like WoW.

I mean, just like your argument about "everyone knowing what a bard is", on the same token, "everyone knows what "drunk kung fu" is like."

We were comparing DKs to Mages. Those are classes.

Liches aren't classes. I simply pointed out the flaw in your logic, that if you were right in that "all blood magic should go to the death knight", then by that reasoning, all frost magic should have gone to the mage, since the class even got the WC3 Lich's frost nova spell. But that is not what happened, was it? The death knight class got a full frost spec of its own. Not just one or two frost spells distributed through their specs, but a full-blown frost spec. And no, that frost magic is not necromantic. It's just plain frost magic.

Yes, the necromancer concepts that commonly pop up in forums. In fact my recent thread was a prime example of it. The majority of posters in there wanted a Blood healing spec, a Lich Frost spec, and an unholy spec with monstrosities and some sort of plague or poison.

1:1 with DKs.

So you love to say "show me the RPG games" and "show me the NPCs" and etc, and etc. But when it's your turn to present the evidence, you back down. Come on, Teriz. If they really so "commonly pop up in the forums", surely you would have no trouble linking to at least a few of those "popular concept" threads.

Sorry, I have no idea what you're talking about here. I'm simply saying that having a link to a WC3 hero would make the Bard a more acceptable future WoW class concept. I'm sorry if mentioning something that would help the Bard class concept makes you upset.

No, you're not. You're again trying to weasel your way out of this. Your argument was that the reason bards are unpopular is because they lack a lore-heavy NPC. Of which I constantly ask you to show me any sort of evidence of it, that isn't pure conjecture like you've been doing:

People know what a Bard is. People don't know the Bard's place in WoW.

Why? Because there is no WC lore character to anchor it.

[Strippling]

Tinker would be great! Maybe keep it race locked to gnomes / mechagnomes and goblins / undead??

In saying that though, I'd love the following classes as well:
- shadow hunter
- blade master
- dark ranger
- warden

These classes could possibly be incorporated as a fourth spec option to classes. For example:
- shadow hunter = fourth rogue or shaman spec
- blade master = fourth warrior spec
- dark ranger = fourth hunter spec
- warden = fourth rogue spec
- necromancer = fourth warlock spec

Tinker should be it's own class, and bard... well bard is a stupid idea and shouldn't be considered lol.


Another cool option would be to offer faction unique races again, though I understand due to balancing issues this would likely never happen:
- Horde: shadow hunter, Alliance: warden
- Horde: dark ranger, Alliance: sentinel

[Teriz]

Tinker would be great! Maybe keep it race locked to gnomes / mechagnomes and goblins / undead??

I think Vulpera should be the second Horde race.

Tinker should be it's own class, and bard... well bard is a stupid idea and shouldn't be considered lol.

I couldn’t agree more.

[Salvager23]

Can someone explain why the Tinker option wins these polls over and over again?

[Teriz]

Can someone explain why the Tinker option wins these polls over and over again?

1. Unlike Necromancers it won’t take abilities and concepts from existing classes, and isn’t a rehash of something we already have in the class lineup.

2. Unlike Bards it actually has a history and a purpose within Warcraft.

3. Has the potential to check all the boxes that this particular community asks for: New ranged class, new mail armor class, new class that could use guns, new unique healing spec, etc.

[Shiza]

Can someone explain why the Tinker option wins these polls over and over again?

A loud minority of people who swarm every poll. Though polls we also now that Gnome and Goblin fans are overrepresented on this forum, considering that some polls would indicate that there would be up to 40% Gnome and Goblin Players while they only make up around 4% of the ingame population.

1. Unlike Necromancers it won’t take abilities and concepts from existing classes, and isn’t a rehash of something we already have in the class lineup.

2. Unlike Bards it actually has a history and a purpose within Warcraft.

3. Has the potential to check all the boxes that this particular community asks for: New ranged class, new mail armor class, new class that could use guns, new unique healing spec, etc.

Ladies and Gentleman, wishful thinking and subjective opinions.

[czarek]

Necro sounds good but imo that conception is already filled in some way with warlock and dk. Tinkerer meh. Bard ? WTF LOL NO. Other hmm dark ranger!

[Protar95]

You named 1 RPG game out of thousands, and you're not even sure about the second one. That shows that the trope isn't common in RPGs. Quite the opposite in fact.

I don't really have a dog in this fight because I'd be quite hyped for Tinkers, Necromancers and/or Bards and think all of them could make interesting classes. But as to this particular point there are more than a few examples to be found on the Drunken Master page on tvtropes (I can't link yet until I've made a few more posts apparently).

[Ielenia]

1. Unlike Necromancers it won’t take abilities and concepts from existing classes, and isn’t a rehash of something we already have in the class lineup.

Necromancers don't need to take anything from existing classes. And a necromancer is as much a "rehash" as a paladin is a "rehash" of the priests.

2. Unlike Bards it actually has a history and a purpose within Warcraft.

The tinker class has no "purpose" that is different than any other class. The purpose of a class is to be played.

3. Has the potential to check all the boxes that this particular community asks for: New ranged class, new mail armor class, new class that could use guns, new unique healing spec, etc.

Bards also "tick" all those boxes: ranged class, new mail armor class, new gun-using class, and unique healing spec, etc. On top of that, "mail armor" makes more sense to bards than it does to tinkers, since bards are "in the thick of it" with just their armor protecting them... while your tinker remains inside a mech, making armor not only useless, but counter-productive.

[Teriz]

I don't really have a dog in this fight because I'd be quite hyped for Tinkers, Necromancers and/or Bards and think all of them could make interesting classes. But as to this particular point there are more than a few examples to be found on the Drunken Master page on tvtropes (I can't link yet until I've made a few more posts apparently).

The argument was that even without the Brewmaster hero from WC3, the Brewmaster abilities would have wound up in the Monk class anyway, despite pretty much no MMORPG other than WoW really pushes that concept, and no Monks in WoW using “drunken” stuff.

And they push that concept because of the Brewmaster hero.

[Triceron]

Can someone explain why the Tinker option wins these polls over and over again?

MMO-C has an uncommonly high amount of Tinker/Gnome/Goblin fans here. Which is understandable since the entire forum is a collective of niche players.

[Teriz]

MMO-C has an uncommonly high amount of Tinker/Gnome/Goblin fans here. Which is understandable since the entire forum is a collective of niche players.

Ah, so we’re finally admitting that people associate Tinkers with Goblins/Gnomes? Good.

[Triceron]

Ah, so we’re finally admitting that people associate Tinkers with Goblins/Gnomes? Good.

Er, if it's better then I'll rephrase it as an uncommonly high amount of Tinker, Goblin and Gnome fans.

I don't see how you instantly drew a connection between them all, because I can say Death Knight/Mage/Worgen and it doesn't mean people associate those all with each other.

[Teriz]

Er, if it's better then I'll rephrase it as an uncommonly high amount of Tinker, Goblin and Gnome fans.

I don't see how you instantly drew a connection between them all, because I can say Death Knight/Paladin/Mage and it doesn't mean people associate those classes with each other.

Those are three unrelated classes. Goblins and Gnomes are high tech races, and the Tinker concept revolves around those races.

[Triceron]

Those are three unrelated classes.

I literally made a list of three things that are uncommonly popular on these forums, and that's the relation of the three concepts. So yes, they are related for being uncommonly popular on these forums.

You just jumped on another interpretation due to your obvious bias, which is understandable since you're Teriz.