Awakened and mythic +10 dungeons as a tank

[Garymorilix]

As someone who have raid lead and raided mythic i know that understanding core mechanics is key to progression. Its not about the number being 10 or 20. Its about understanding the mechanics before entering high level keys. But hey, keep trying to be toxic

So, why are you still not a DPS watching tanks do the job you wanna do in the future?

Cuz from where I'm sittin' all I see is you arguing with people telling you to "git gud" on a fan forum instead of, yknow, doing the actual practice and preparation you are going on about for hours now.

[ClassicPeon]

So, why are you still not a DPS watching tanks do the job you wanna do in the future?

Cuz from where I'm sittin' all I see is you arguing with people telling you to "git gud" on a fan forum instead of, yknow, doing the actual practice and preparation you are going on about for hours now.

because my experience has been that getting into 10+ keys as a 455 dps is just not happening on my server. I've been accepted once in a week :P

[ClassicPeon]

This is an MMO, try be social and make friends, get into a guild and do your own keys with friends instead.

I am in a guild and i'm part of a old community that i dont want to leave. The few people who are playing bfa are all more casual then me however. Bfa has not gona over well in my guild

[Garymorilix]

because my experience has been that getting into 10+ keys as a 455 dps is just not happening on my server. I've been accepted once in a week :P

Didn't you just say to someone you have your own siege key?

What server? All servers are merged, there is no "server". You are either accepted or not.
So you are either playing some tier one garbage like feral druid OR you are trying to join runs with 2k rio alts.
Cuz what I see on EU the normal +10 chill runs are advertized at 450+ and they take basically anyone (just did one today on my alt).

At this point I have no idea what you want out of this forum.
People told you to just do +10's to practice.
Use MTD.
DPS and watch what the tank does.

There ain't anything else that can be advised to you. At this point you are in an endless cycle of excuses.
When will you actually start to do a run?

[ClassicPeon]

Didn't you just say to someone you have your own siege key?

What server? All servers are merged, there is no "server". You are either accepted or not.
So you are either playing some tier one garbage like feral druid OR you are trying to join runs with 2k rio alts.
Cuz what I see on EU the normal +10 chill runs are advertized at 450+ and they take basically anyone (just did one today on my alt).

At this point I have no idea what you want out of this forum.
People told you to just do +10's to practice.
Use MTD.
DPS and watch what the tank does.

There ain't anything else that can be advised to you. At this point you are in an endless cycle of excuses.
When will you actually start to do a run?

whats with you man? Like literally? Whats your problem since you are so damn negative. If this irks you so much then just move on.

I'm playing a dk. When i'm dps i am a 455 unholy and when i tank i'm 461 blood. i dont get accepted into 10+ groups as a 455 unholy :/ I have around 800 on raider io.

[neik]

Clock in as many runs as you can on daily basis and eventually the confidence will follow.

[Naville]

its the key i have :/ As several other of your peers have mentioned i shouldnt go in and "ruin peoples key's". So i sign with my own key. You also keep this up as if what i'm having difficuloty is the 10+ itself. The difficulty of the dungeon doesnt really scare me. Its the toxicity of people who get really fucking angry as soon as you dont do whats expected.

Just ignore them. Nothing bad will happen to you in real. If you aren't scared by the difficulty, just step in and start having fun pulling lots of mobs in dungeons.

No one will ask for your MDT route on a +10. No one ask me on +15s. On +17s and up, I share my route but most of the time, no one even read.

Lots of streamers run +15 keys with viewers almost as most PUGs would do, without fancy things. So you can just watch what they do.

[ClassicPeon]

Just ignore them. Nothing bad will happen to you in real. If you aren't scared by the difficulty, just step in and start having fun pulling lots of mobs in dungeons.

No one will ask for your MDT route on a +10. No one ask me on +15s. On +17s and up, I share my route but most of the time, no one even read.

Lots of streamers run +15 keys with viewers almost as most PUGs would do, without fancy things. So you can just watch what they do.

Thanks for the advice. Just tried my first key in siege and the healer literally died three times jumping down the the sidewalk thing on the water and then left :P

Got my key upgraded again and i have a +10 for motherlode for tomorrow.

[Lucetia]

because my experience has been that getting into 10+ keys as a 455 dps is just not happening on my server. I've been accepted once in a week :P

Or run your own key as dps? Unless you have been declining yourself O.o

Thanks for the advice. Just tried my first key in siege and the healer literally died three times jumping down the the sidewalk thing on the water and then left :P

Got my key upgraded again and i have a +10 for motherlode for tomorrow.

People leave in M+ all the time in pugs. Especially when they can't do dumb things. Doesn't mean it was because of you and awakened or anything.

[Marrilaife]

Just tried my first key in siege and the healer literally died three times jumping down the the sidewalk thing on the water and then left :P

These people are the worst, instead of asking for help (someone with 2 seater mount and waterwalking, any class with slowfall, etc.) they behave as if they peed themselves in public and have to run away.

Community is partially to blame because it's generally unhelpful so asking for help feels often futile, but when someone's first reaction is to leave instead of trying any other solution, maybe they should stick to solo content.

P.S. Back in WOD I could NEVER do the Everbloom jump and people often helped me with 2 seater mount, swapblaster etc. However I do feel since m+ got implemented the community has become much more elitist.

[Shaetha]

Thank you for the feedback guys. I've bit the apple and am looking at guides for Siege of Boralus which i have a 10 key for myself. I assume my issue here goes away pretty much after 1-2 runs in each dungeon but this is kinda shaky ground for me.

The best strat for Siege of Boralus is to find a key that isn't Siege of Boralus.

For real though, get invited to someone else's group and they want to be a shit? It's their key. Fuck 'em. You'll just immediately get another group. They'll have to pay the price for being unwashed assholes by how long they have to wait for a tank, and if they don't like it, tell them they should have tanked if they wanted it tanked their way. Don't take responsibility for someone else being an asshole. It's their fault they're an asshole, not yours.

It is their bad for not telling you if you say you're new. Download that dungeon tools addon and they can even tell you the route if they want. Past that, you've done all that can reasonably expected of you.

Anyone that says "It's the tank's job to know beforehand" can fuck all the way off. That's not the tank's job. That's the GROUP's job. The DPS and Healers need to stop shirking the duty that every person in the group has. There are 5 people in the group, and it is every single person in the group's job to make sure you're on the same page before starting.

The reason for the tank shortage is not solely because of this idea, but it's the reason it's so much worse in raids and mythic+ than it should be.

If someone wants to be an asshole, add them to ignore. If people are good to you, add them to friends. Most people in PuGs are going to be assholes, and just learning the fights is a temporary solution to a permanent problem. However, that problem fixes itself once you find people to run with that aren't douchebags. You just have to not be too scared to put yourself out there. If you're nice, people will work with you. If they won't, nothing is lost because you didn't want to see those people again anyway. Finding a group of people you like running with should be the goal of every player in WoW if you do content that you can't matchmake.

TL;DR Assholes exist. Lazy people exist. Don't make it your fault someone else is one or the other. It is never your fault if you don't take the route the DPS/Healer expected if it wasn't discussed beforehand.

[srathgar]

The best strat for Siege of Boralus is to find a key that isn't Siege of Boralus.

For real though, get invited to someone else's group and they want to be a shit? It's their key. Fuck 'em. You'll just immediately get another group. They'll have to pay the price for being unwashed assholes by how long they have to wait for a tank, and if they don't like it, tell them they should have tanked if they wanted it tanked their way. Don't take responsibility for someone else being an asshole. It's their fault they're an asshole, not yours.

It is their bad for not telling you if you say you're new. Download that dungeon tools addon and they can even tell you the route if they want. Past that, you've done all that can reasonably expected of you.

Anyone that says "It's the tank's job to know beforehand" can fuck all the way off. That's not the tank's job. That's the GROUP's job. The DPS and Healers need to stop shirking the duty that every person in the group has. There are 5 people in the group, and it is every single person in the group's job to make sure you're on the same page before starting.

The reason for the tank shortage is not solely because of this idea, but it's the reason it's so much worse in raids and mythic+ than it should be.

If someone wants to be an asshole, add them to ignore. If people are good to you, add them to friends. Most people in PuGs are going to be assholes, and just learning the fights is a temporary solution to a permanent problem. However, that problem fixes itself once you find people to run with that aren't douchebags. You just have to not be too scared to put yourself out there. If you're nice, people will work with you. If they won't, nothing is lost because you didn't want to see those people again anyway. Finding a group of people you like running with should be the goal of every player in WoW if you do content that you can't matchmake.

TL;DR Assholes exist. Lazy people exist. Don't make it your fault someone else is one or the other. It is never your fault if you don't take the route the DPS/Healer expected if it wasn't discussed beforehand.

So you would be fine with dps simply pulling left and right for you, since apparently routing in a pug environment is the entire groups responsibility? Because what you describe is complete anarchy, and the single most important reason as to why a tank should know the route himself. There are so many tanks that get really upset when dps/healer starts pulling for them, even going so far as cultivating the toxic "you pull it you tank it" mentality.

If you meant that dps/healers should know the dungeon too, then yea, they should know what to look out for as a healer and as a dps, as a tank knowing the dungeon includes knowing what packs to pull and what not to pull.

[Shaetha]

So you would be fine with dps simply pulling left and right for you, since apparently routing in a pug environment is the entire groups responsibility? Because what you describe is complete anarchy, and the single most important reason as to why a tank should know the route himself. There are so many tanks that get really upset when dps/healer starts pulling for them, even going so far as cultivating the toxic "you pull it you tank it" mentality.

If you meant that dps/healers should know the dungeon too, then yea, they should know what to look out for as a healer and as a dps, as a tank knowing the dungeon includes knowing what packs to pull and what not to pull.

It's the group's job to be on the same page. DPS and healers shirk those duties and just expect the tank to know without asking. It makes you the asshole to expect something to be done a certain way and not make sure everyone else is up to that. That is everyone's job. It's called basic communication. Maybe not doing that is why so many of your experiences with random people go poorly.

If you can't do that, you shouldn't be trying to do content that isn't matchmade.

[Lucetia]

So you would be fine with dps simply pulling left and right for you, since apparently routing in a pug environment is the entire groups responsibility? Because what you describe is complete anarchy, and the single most important reason as to why a tank should know the route himself. There are so many tanks that get really upset when dps/healer starts pulling for them, even going so far as cultivating the toxic "you pull it you tank it" mentality.

If you meant that dps/healers should know the dungeon too, then yea, they should know what to look out for as a healer and as a dps, as a tank knowing the dungeon includes knowing what packs to pull and what not to pull.

Pretty sure that they meant directing traffic. Not pulling for them. You are trying to pull things that aren't there. There is nothing wrong with asking the dps and healers to know a route and point the way throughout the run.

[srathgar]

It's the group's job to be on the same page. DPS and healers shirk those duties and just expect the tank to know without asking. It makes you the asshole to expect something to be done a certain way and not make sure everyone else is up to that. That is everyone's job. It's called basic communication. Maybe not doing that is why so many of your experiences with random people go poorly.

If you can't do that, you shouldn't be trying to do content that isn't matchmade.

That was so many assumptions i dont even know where to begin lol.

First off, i pretty much only tank, so when i say what i do it comes from my own experience tanking. In a dungeon, the tank is similar to a conductor in an orchestra, he sets the pace etc (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conducting). That is not to say that when i do higher keys with friends that they can not come with input, that is something i welcome as a matter of fact. Most often in pugs though, input=whining like a mule, and having 5 people each trying to get the group to do it in their specific way tends to suck compared to the tank leading the way.

On to the part of the group being on the same page, well there are mostly 2-3 different ways to do a dungeon in my opinion:
1: Brute forcing a key ignoring the timer and potentially not timing it.
2: Doing a key in order to time it and get a higher weekly chest
3: Pushing beyond +15 for Prestige.

In other words, if you join a group and it does not specifically say that it is a chill run, weekly just to get a chest or something then the expectation in my opinion should be to do the key in time, as that rewards both better gear and most often a more fun run.

[Twdft]

These people are the worst, instead of asking for help (someone with 2 seater mount and waterwalking, any class with slowfall, etc.) they behave as if they peed themselves in public and have to run away.

Community is partially to blame because it's generally unhelpful so asking for help feels often futile, but when someone's first reaction is to leave instead of trying any other solution, maybe they should stick to solo content.

P.S. Back in WOD I could NEVER do the Everbloom jump and people often helped me with 2 seater mount, swapblaster etc. However I do feel since m+ got implemented the community has become much more elitist.

Siege: before start tell the group "drop down walking, mount up, ride forward, jump out but not into the water" and nobody dies.

Everbloom: funny thing about the "shortcut" is that the normal way you need to kill exactly 1 (one) mob and run past the pat, if you have to help a player you already lost time. When I tanked I never did the shortcut.

[Hellobolis]

What's interesting is that I have rarely been in a group where the dps is good enough that we can survive even one wipe. My experience is usually:

No wipes: Make timer
1 wipe: Miss timer by a minute or so
2 wipes: Timer is up before you start trash near last boss

that's usually true early in the patch. but by now people are more geared and experienced on average. and ofc if you have a dps whos keeping up with their cloak/corruption that tends to help, compared to when you get alts/new chars.

ofc, it also depends on how picky you are when making the group (and if you take a easy or hard dungeon), but let's be honest you usually have a lot of choice for dps.

[Zantera]

Awakened makes it a lot more fun IMO. This is the most fun tanking I've had all expansion and even though I only tank on 2 of my alts (i could on my main but its off spec) I have timed multiple 15s and I really enjoy it. Awakened just gives a lot more options with the route I feel and it's my favorite out of the seasonal affixes. Even as a tank I'd say it's much preferable to Infested (which was just crap), picking up all the mobs of Reaping OR dealing with the Azshara emissaries.

[Sunnydee]

I think alot of people have missed the point of some things in this thread.

It not about "its being more difficult" to add in the awakened. I was in the same spot as OP was not to long ago, did some 10s as tank, had INSANE amount of raging people beacuse i pulled a mob or a pack to much. Ive literally had people threatning me in whispers as i went my way trying to just complete a dungeon.

Sure i had some nice folks who helped and marked what i should pull and what to avoid. But that amount was abysmall compared to the toxic people who think they should be in a 25key instead of my 10 group.

Its not about not wanting to learn the paths, i dont have any issues with it. But watching a YT guide you still end up with different paths (atal dazal is an perfect example),
and most important of all, no matter how good RIO people have, no matter how chill it seems, most of the time if you pull something out of the standard u are gonna get the "why the fuck did you pull those, god dammit stop wasting my time".

The anxiety of not taking the jump from 9 to 10 is of/(from???) other people in the group, NOT the actual affix.

Also i never really gotten why people who isnt even the keyowner gets mad when it doesnt make in time. Jeez relax and have fun.

Anyways, i found a guild with really nice people and ended up learning them so much faster.

[Hellobolis]

and most important of all, no matter how good RIO people have, no matter how chill it seems, most of the time if you pull something out of the standard u are gonna get the "why the fuck did you pull those, god dammit stop wasting my time".

it's not THAT bad. but perhaps its different if you are horde/alliance or EU/US.

The anxiety of not taking the jump from 9 to 10 is of/(from???) other people in the group, NOT the actual affix.

everything in this game is easier with friends/guildies, m+ is no exception.

Anyways, i found a guild with really nice people and ended up learning them so much faster.

ironically it's the reverse for me. pugs generally don't care what happens as long as it's not a complete disaster (not timing it is usually not a disaster, and people who really care about that put it in their description anyways.).

meanwhile my guild is split up in 50% people who just do their weekly and 50% tryhards who bitch and moan about everything even when it's a casual run to boost someones alt.