Ion & Co. at it again

[Greengrim]

Just finished reading the bullets from Ion's latest interview, and man I gotta say, besides the usual "we have no clue what we're doing, but we want to do this and that" stuff, I'm specifically dissapointed to read the 3 following things:

• Set bonuses are one of the reasons they pulled back on tier sets originally. They limited item diversity because certain slots were locked to tier sets.

What? Set items locking slots away? Hello BFA neck, cloack, helm, shoulder, chest?! I mean, sure you exchange a few azerites till you cash in on that specific one which nets you most power, but it was the same with set items as well, as there was mutliple ilvl iterations of each item.

• PvP stats are not returning. Itemization will remain like it is in Battle for Azeroth, with the inclusion of a PvP vendor to give players more choice of gear acquisition.

Why? Why force PvP players, who exclusively enjoy PvP, into farming PvE? Why allow PvE players to gain PvP power through NOT playing PvP? To me, this honestly is neither fair, nor logical. PvP players should have stronger PvP gear, and vice versa.

• Arthas is obviously SOMEWHERE in the Shadowlands, but they want to be respectful with the character. We will learn more about him and his true nature, but we most likely won't be adventuring or interacting much with him.

Say that again please, YOU don't want to whatnow?! Ion, I respect you for all your contributions to WoW, and the fact you have devoted such a bit part of your entire life to this game. You are obviously not doing it primarily for the money, but let's get one thing straight: WE pay your greedy AF company to create content that WE must enjoy. If the community wants more Arthas, then give them the hell more Arthas. What's the problem with that? His character's integrity? Illidan was pissed upon when nobody asked for him. Why not give us Arthas, now that we want him? And yeah, I know some of you out there will be like "NOOOOO" but I guarantee you if it's put through a vote, the majority of the community will want Arthas back.

[Varodoc]

Lol there's no way they aren't doing something big with Arthas, when they brought back Illidan in Legion and Thrall in BfA.

[Rendark]

Lol there's no way they aren't doing something big with Arthas, when they brought back Illidan in Legion and Thrall in BfA.

Lets hope they don't.

[Gurahk]

Ok so, Blizzard and Ion are poopyheads for daring to look at Arthas, but they're also poopyheads for NOT wanting to bring him back into the current story.
The fuck?

[Lucetia]

What? Set items locking slots away? Hello BFA neck, cloack, helm, shoulder, chest?! I mean, sure you exchange a few azerites till you cash in on that specific one which nets you most power, but it was the same with set items as well, as there was mutliple ilvl iterations of each item.

That is completely different. You are locking those slots with Azerite that can be interchanged. Tier sets were basically the piece of gear you wore in that slot and forgot all other pieces that didn't have tier stats on them. So it made pieces that didn't contribute to the tier set worthless and not even worth considering for majority of the classes. Azerite pieces could be used regardless since they all gave bonuses of some kind.

Why? Why force PvP players, who exclusively enjoy PvP, into farming PvE? Why allow PvE players to gain PvP power through NOT playing PvP? To me, this honestly is neither fair, nor logical. PvP players should have stronger PvP gear, and vice versa.

So you want a dumb stat like resilience? Depending on your class it was either worthless or amazing in PvP. It even spilled over to PvE to were some classes would favor resilience. PvP spilling into PvE is perfectly fine since the entire game is PvE based and PvP is a side thing. Making a side thing required for the main focus of the game, however isn't. In this case it'd be like requiring pet battles to perform max damage in PvE.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Azerite armour didn’t lock slots until you got your BIS which if all the complaints were any thing to go by wasn’t the easiest thing to do and the clock was added in the last patch not when they were making the choice to step away from sets so that leaves what? One slot filled compared to the 6 from tier sets from wanting a 4 and 2 set? If they really wanted to move to slot fluidity then it’s a no brainer choice even though they might have messed up the execution a bit.

Pvp stars not coming back is a fine change with out Titan forging as long as you can get mythic+/raid quaility gear from pvping and they give you a choice in stars and a reasonable climb up to the gear though lower ranked items on the vender. That way if you want to do mythic+ and go into pvp you can but if you want to just pvp and put more time into it it’s a viable gearing choice.

There is no “we” when your trying to talk about a massive split player base with huge vocal minority’s, if there was one unified voice on what the players wanted then they could listen to it but there isn’t.

[Donald Hellscream]

Fuck Arthas, leave his story arc as it is, I don't want another fucking redemption story.

[Azerate]

What? Set items locking slots away? Hello BFA neck, cloack, helm, shoulder, chest?! I mean, sure you exchange a few azerites till you cash in on that specific one which nets you most power, but it was the same with set items as well, as there was mutliple ilvl iterations of each item.

There is a difference between just ONE item in the entire game you can put in that slot that you can get from 1 boss in a raid, and multiple items from different sources with sometimes very small power differences, which all have those special powers. It's downright false that you can only play while having one specific Azerite item. Even the mythic raiders for most classes can use about 2-3 different azerite items with minimal differences at the moment. Of course everyone will choose the best one if they have the possibility, but their class isn't broken just because they have shoulders from Skitra instead of the one from Carapace. Those are sometimes differences of sub 1%.

Why? Why force PvP players, who exclusively enjoy PvP, into farming PvE? Why allow PvE players to gain PvP power through NOT playing PvP? To me, this honestly is neither fair, nor logical. PvP players should have stronger PvP gear, and vice versa.

You're playing a MMORPG. You should be able to use pve items for pvp and the other way around. Adding annoying fake stats just to allow pvpers live in a bubble helps absolutely no one and gatekeeps pvp from regular players who get their gear through pve. I think it's been very clearly communicated time and again, that the devs, as well as most of the players, don't want this game to become a lobby where everyone queues for their piece of content of choice. Everything should rely on everything else. If you don't like that, there are other games: FPS, Moba, Hero shooters etc.

[ReVnX]

They removed tier set bonuses because of Mythic+, period. And I agree with leaving Arthas alone, I don't want that character to be butchered.

You sound extremely entitled

[owbu]

- one boring slot (neck, cloak, ring) is not the same as one entire set. This is a gradual problem, you cant solve it with binary thinking.

- pvp stats vs accessibility. If you have to maintain two entire sets, the entry costs to pvp is too high. That limits participitation which is a problem in pvp. But you are right, this is a trade off. Both solutions are imperfect.

- You are not the community. And fan service is not something that makes stories better. BfA is a really good example for that.

[Kumorii]

Tier sets is not on the same level as HoA and Azerite... goddamn. I personally like tier sets, but don't be blind to what it does to slots and item diversity nor misrepresent what is being said from devs.

[deenman]

Just finished reading the bullets from Ion's latest interview, and man I gotta say, besides the usual "we have no clue what we're doing, but we want to do this and that" stuff, I'm specifically dissapointed to read the 3 following things:

• Set bonuses are one of the reasons they pulled back on tier sets originally. They limited item diversity because certain slots were locked to tier sets.

What? Set items locking slots away? Hello BFA neck, cloack, helm, shoulder, chest?! I mean, sure you exchange a few azerites till you cash in on that specific one which nets you most power, but it was the same with set items as well, as there was mutliple ilvl iterations of each item.

• PvP stats are not returning. Itemization will remain like it is in Battle for Azeroth, with the inclusion of a PvP vendor to give players more choice of gear acquisition.

Why? Why force PvP players, who exclusively enjoy PvP, into farming PvE? Why allow PvE players to gain PvP power through NOT playing PvP? To me, this honestly is neither fair, nor logical. PvP players should have stronger PvP gear, and vice versa.

• Arthas is obviously SOMEWHERE in the Shadowlands, but they want to be respectful with the character. We will learn more about him and his true nature, but we most likely won't be adventuring or interacting much with him.

Say that again please, YOU don't want to whatnow?! Ion, I respect you for all your contributions to WoW, and the fact you have devoted such a bit part of your entire life to this game. You are obviously not doing it primarily for the money, but let's get one thing straight: WE pay your greedy AF company to create content that WE must enjoy. If the community wants more Arthas, then give them the hell more Arthas. What's the problem with that? His character's integrity? Illidan was pissed upon when nobody asked for him. Why not give us Arthas, now that we want him? And yeah, I know some of you out there will be like "NOOOOO" but I guarantee you if it's put through a vote, the majority of the community will want Arthas back.

sets and azerite were not even close my gosh how can you spew such nonsense?no1 plays lfr normal hc AND mythic,most players do 2 at most,azerite you need different ones for pvp and pve,you need different ones for every spec,dungeons and raids will have different needs,singletarget and aoe,tier pieces you got one or two for that one slot and you were done

why force pvp players to farm pve?who is forcing you?you know when you were FORCED to do pve for the best pvp gear?in vanila and wotlk,today you can just pvp and get the gear you need,sure it helps to pve but its not even close to how mandatory it was in the past

[Zantera]

I can't believe people still don't see the problems with tier sets. Yeah I grew up with them like many others and I wouldn't mind them back but the issue with tier sets locking your item slots isn't even close to being comparable to HoA-neck or azerite gear. If you get a pair of shoulders that are much better than your current shoulders, you swap those out and you got yourself an upgrade. If you got a better pair of shoulders when we had tier-gear, and you happened to have tier shoulders then you might as well take that item to the vendor because breaking up the 4-set bonus was not worth it.

[deenman]

They removed tier set bonuses because of Mythic+, period. And I agree with leaving Arthas alone, I don't want that character to be butchered.

You sound extremely entitled

so they just lied?no i rly doubt it has anything to do with m+,legion did just fine,they gave the reason why,they wanted players to have more diversity in gearing,before you got 1 hc tier and then the mythic and you were done,now you need different azerite pieces for the same slot for multiple stuff,pve,pvp,all specs,dungeons vs raiding,aoe vs single

[Kumorii]

WE pay your greedy AF company to create content that WE must enjoy. If the community wants more Arthas, then give them the hell more Arthas.

Lmao, the entitlement... No, that's now how game development works. Developers put out a game and content, YOU decide if it's worth the money to you. They are not your contractors. You don't get to decide what content they should do. If you want Blizzard to do exactly what you order them to, better buckle up and buy the company, then you get to decide.

It's not,
You pay -> They create content.
It's,
They create content -> You pay.

[deenman]

I can't believe people still don't see the problems with tier sets. Yeah I grew up with them like many others and I wouldn't mind them back but the issue with tier sets locking your item slots isn't even close to being comparable to HoA-neck or azerite gear. If you get a pair of shoulders that are much better than your current shoulders, you swap those out and you got yourself an upgrade. If you got a better pair of shoulders when we had tier-gear, and you happened to have tier shoulders then you might as well take that item to the vendor because breaking up the 4-set bonus was not worth it.

agree,azerite was an atempt,but ultimately i feel like its a mistake to link those powers to items,wile azerite offers more options than sets,you create a new problem,the need to have a shit ton of them in your bags if you partake in multiple activities,the way shadowlands is doing it could be a better alternative with covenants

[valky94]

• Set bonuses are one of the reasons they pulled back on tier sets originally. They limited item diversity because certain slots were locked to tier sets.

What? Set items locking slots away? Hello BFA neck, cloack, helm, shoulder, chest?! I mean, sure you exchange a few azerites till you cash in on that specific one which nets you most power, but it was the same with set items as well, as there was mutliple ilvl iterations of each item.

tier sets were boring as hell, and for the majority of the time once you obtained your 4 set you wouldnt touch it for the rest of the tier, while azerite wasnt much of an improvement when it comes to locking slots, atleast you had some choice and diverstiny with different traits, and you could keep the same playstyle for the whole expac,

i remember the outroar of demon hunter players when blizzard forced them out of chaos blades/demon blades

[Gaidax]

Daily "Ion said stuff I did not like" rage thread.

I don't even need to add anything, everything else is already said above.

I will touch the Arthas part though: we don't know in what capacity we may see mentions about him, but my take is that sometimes it IS better to let things go and keep them as a fond memory instead of dragging their battered corpses out and ending up butchering them. Which is basically what Ion said.

Arthas is done, he had a good run and he will forever be a part of Warcraft legacy with a wrapped story and satisfying conclusion.

Sure, Blizz might not resist in the end screeching like op "GIEF MROE ARTUZZ WE PAYS MONEYZ GODSDAMIT" and then Blizz might bait like LucasFilm or whatever other big studio with good legacy stuff lying around, trying to pull a fast one on everyone for $$ in a hamfisted way, but maybe it would be better they don't do it this time.

[Aresk]

Out of curiosity, what are you hoping for them to do with Arthas? Turn him into a dungeon boss? Make him a raid encounter? Give him a redemption arc? Make him a soulbind? Turn him into a legendary follower for the new mission table? Honestly I feel like Arthas' story had a satisfying conclusion at the end of TFT, and he became a far less interesting character in WotLK where he just randomly showed up as a figurehead for the Scourge, maybe empowered some minion, and then walked away. I recognize your experience may be different from mine and am curious what you're hoping to see.

[Eapoe]

Just finished reading the bullets from Ion's latest interview, and man I gotta say, besides the usual "we have no clue what we're doing, but we want to do this and that" stuff, I'm specifically dissapointed to read the 3 following things:

• Set bonuses are one of the reasons they pulled back on tier sets originally. They limited item diversity because certain slots were locked to tier sets.

What? Set items locking slots away? Hello BFA neck, cloack, helm, shoulder, chest?! I mean, sure you exchange a few azerites till you cash in on that specific one which nets you most power, but it was the same with set items as well, as there was mutliple ilvl iterations of each item.

• PvP stats are not returning. Itemization will remain like it is in Battle for Azeroth, with the inclusion of a PvP vendor to give players more choice of gear acquisition.

Why? Why force PvP players, who exclusively enjoy PvP, into farming PvE? Why allow PvE players to gain PvP power through NOT playing PvP? To me, this honestly is neither fair, nor logical. PvP players should have stronger PvP gear, and vice versa.

• Arthas is obviously SOMEWHERE in the Shadowlands, but they want to be respectful with the character. We will learn more about him and his true nature, but we most likely won't be adventuring or interacting much with him.

Say that again please, YOU don't want to whatnow?! Ion, I respect you for all your contributions to WoW, and the fact you have devoted such a bit part of your entire life to this game. You are obviously not doing it primarily for the money, but let's get one thing straight: WE pay your greedy AF company to create content that WE must enjoy. If the community wants more Arthas, then give them the hell more Arthas. What's the problem with that? His character's integrity? Illidan was pissed upon when nobody asked for him. Why not give us Arthas, now that we want him? And yeah, I know some of you out there will be like "NOOOOO" but I guarantee you if it's put through a vote, the majority of the community will want Arthas back.

1). Azerite pieces (helm, shoulders, chest) were an attempt to move away from tier while keeping power and options to the player. Instead of having 2/4/6 slots that locked people into playing a certain way, regardless of content being done, vs having 3 pieces that had different traits tied into them was an attempt to give players decisions for each and allowing different play styles.
2). PvP stats were dumb anyways. How many did we actually have? An early iteration of Versatility? Yeah, so flavorful and full of stupendous variety. Barring that, I wouldn’t mind more of a separation. Maybe better work balancing power creep, or bring out specific PvP gear that stays it’s ilvl while PvE gear is lowered roughly 5-20 ilvls in instanced PvP areas.
3). Arthas story is done. I’m a little upset about Arthas being brought up at all. His story concluded, and while it was bittersweet it ended well and should stop there. What people want is not always the best thing. WoW is full of things of Blizzard giving things and catering to the casuals and some of those features are the most complained about.