High Profile Youtubers DO NOT Speak for me.

[Heavens Night]

And yet you feel the need to further attack me.

Is it for the audience? We are on a public forum you know? You want to have this conversation via PM where no one else actually sees us?

I'm not attacking you in the slightest. I'm just responding to how you signed off your own message. Which really doesn't do you any favours dude.

[Asrialol]

If Bellular and Kalani had the same opinion as you, you wouldn't have made this thread because you'd be happy to have them speak for you. Preach is fine with the Torghast change, but I guess that isn't important to you since it doesn't fit your agenda. Torghast changes, aswell as the existing Covenant problems, are a very divided subject in the community as a whole and based on the feedback that is all over the place so far it would seem like the majority do share the same feelings as Bellular and Kalani, so when they say "players want this" it is actually a fact. For every opinion that you have, there is someone out there with the exact opposite, there is no making everyone happy and it's something that you need to accept. Also, for the record, I agree with you regarding the timer feature itself, I don't like the idea of allowing people to spend as much time as they want/need per floor without consequences.

- - - Updated - - -



Ah yes another Agenda Andy. HvB hasn't made a WoW centric video in fucking forever. Rest of them fucking love WoW and want to see it thrive, their "negativity" is necessary because they want the game to be good, BFA deserves every single "hate video" that it has gotten, and it is exactly because of that kind of "negativity" that we're now getting an expansion that is worthy of being called an expansion. The hate boner that some people have for streamers and youtubers is really absurd, it sometimes really does start to look like severe jealousy of their success.

Remember that the feedback you see on forums and reddit are in most cases from a vocal minority. Those tend to always be negative. People often share their negative opinions about something while the positive might not be as frequent. That's standard with all types of online feedback sources.

[Heavens Night]

Rule 101 of game design "dont listen to a vocal minority"

Bellular has zero data if he is speaking for "a majority" or "many people".

He has no clue and neither do i.

Ok, but like I said above, don't you think he could be referring to the people he plays the game with? His employees? his friends? Why does it make you so upset?

- - - Updated - - -

Remember that the feedback you see on forums and reddit are in most cases from a vocal minority. Those tend to always be negative. People often share their negative opinions about something while the positive might not be as frequent. That's standard with all types of online feedback sources.

Also, Blizzard need constructive criticism feedback, that is the whole point of the alpha/beta and trying to make the best product they can.

[Big Thanks]

I'm not attacking you in the slightest. I'm just responding to how you signed off you're own message. Which really doesn't do you any favours dude.

But i did "got him"

The OP is saying this youtubers say on their videos they speak for the majority or "the many people"
The fact is...they dont.

And i caught him red handed like it or not

[Thestrawman]

Rule 101 of game design "dont listen to a vocal minority"

Bellular has zero data if he is speaking for "a majority" or "many people".

He has no clue and neither do i.

Ahh yes the "vocal minority" defense. How do you know that Bel isn't speaking for the majority? Where's your data? Or will you just cry that I'm attacking you too?

[Big Thanks]

Ahh yes the "vocal minority" defense. How do you know that Bel isn't speaking for the majority? Where's your data? Or will you just cry that I'm attacking you too?

I did NOT say he is the vocal minority.

I said no one, youtubers and forums alike, knows who is the majority.
And no one should say they speak for the majority. Because thats just wrong.

[flowski]

But i did "got him"

The OP is saying this youtubers say on their videos they speak for the majority or "the many people"
The fact is...they dont.

And i caught him red handed like it or not

HAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHA

my god i can imagine you getting a boner or something over this . Who writes like this anymore . Who the fuck do you think you caught . Jesus

[exochaft]

I'm a bit bemused to be honest. The guy posts like it's some sort of competition and has some sort of audience of "boys?" I mean it sounds like he's 14 or something so probably not surprising.

But yah I agree with you, and in context I don't think he is wrong. It's all very well taking words out of a video and saying "GOT HIM" but the actual context is I would assume he is referring to people he plays the game with, other alpha testers he has spoken to.

People that try to pick apart stuff like this, as this guy is trying to do, just end up looking silly, and why they seem to think Bel's opinion or anybody else's affects theirs, I have no idea. Let alone to get mad about it.

Sadly, this is where societies are heading right now, where dissenting opinions cannot be tolerated. The whole situation gets bogged down in people's minds that they likely don't even view the full content (similar to just reacting to headlines instead of reading articles and doing your own research), and their sense of entitlement/ego/what have you must suppress or get rid of anything that is contrary to their own opinions. I think the mentality is summed up with the tongue-in-cheek saying of "Don't let facts get in the way of your opinions!" While everything is opinion-based when it comes to the topic at hand, the complaint offered is that YTer's live in their own echo chamber, yet their solution is to listen to another person's echo chamber? Obvious solution (at least it used to be obvious) is to let all opinions come out in the open and decide for yourself. If anyone surrounds themselves with like-minded people all the time and ignores/censors/hides dissenting opinions, they're never going to grow and get stuck in their own heads eventually.

About the specific video that Bellular put out about Torghast, I went and watched it all the way through... and it completely refutes the OP's complaints if you watch all the way through. Towards the end, he pulls out his phone and reads off the pro's and con's of the new affix system. One of the pro's was (paraphrasing) that the affixes give you a sense of being somewhere you shouldn't by having that constant pressure. Throughout the video he even says that this high-paced, psuedo-timed version of Torghast may be what some people want and enjoy. It's reiterated that this is just his opinion, nothing more. If it was truly an echo chamber, their solutions would probably be uniform about what should be done across all the YTer's... and they aren't.

If there is a complaint to be had, it should be the wishy-washy messaging that comes out about their goals and statements. The blue posts not only conflict with their messaging around the affix changes to Torghast and their intent/fucntion, but the alpha is different, too. The last couple years of testing, blue posts, and implementation of features leads me to believe that there's a really high likelihood of an echo chamber mentality within Blizzard independent of what you might thing of YTer's. Even the very recent changes about the corruption system and the new implementation seems extremely short-sighted, and Blizz is already backtracking implementation because of problems that seem very apparent to the average person that plays the game... yet somehow no one at Blizz saw this coming?

[arandomuser]

Thank you, and i agree with you in fact ive been bringing this up as much as ican
i really hate how alpha so far feels "influencer" driven, and ONLY those influencers are in the alpha its like they have a direct line to decide how the game is made and the rest of us get zero input.

[Big Thanks]

HAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHA

my god i can imagine you getting a boner or something over this . Who writes like this anymore . Who the fuck do you think you caught . Jesus

Blizzard should just remove LFR.
Many people are saying it on the forums, thats just facts.

LFG removes the social aspects of the game and should go also. Many people would be happy with this and Blizzard is dumb for not doing this.

Can i be a youtuber now?

[Heavens Night]

HAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHA

my god i can imagine you getting a boner or something over this . Who writes like this anymore . Who the fuck do you think you caught . Jesus

Yea I mean, it's really bizarre. I think it's just his age maybe? I have no idea.

[Thestrawman]

I did NOT say he is the vocal minority.

I said no one, youtubers and forums alike, knows who is the majority.
And no one should say they speak for the majority. Because thats just wrong.

So if someone spent time going around the different forums and read the replies people were giving, noticed the majority of the responses were negative that would still be your "vocal minority"? It's not like Alpha is all about giving feedback or anything.

[flowski]

Blizzard should just remove LFR.
Many people are saying it on the forums, thats just facts.

LFG removes the social aspects of the game and should go also. Many people would be happy with this and Blizzard is dumb for not doing this.

Can i be a youtuber now?

Actually yes , you can be a youtuber now . Try it out and see how it goes . May be you will be as successfull as the guy you caught with something like 500k subs .
There there's gonna be threads about you too .

[Big Thanks]

Yea I mean, it's really bizarre. I think it's just his age maybe? I have no idea.

So, is it true or not this youtubers think they speak for the majority when having absolutely zero information?

Because thats whats being discussed.
But you insist in making it all about me and using personal attacks on me.
Do you really want to keep talking about me?

Go ahead dude. Lets make this entire thread about me. Lets do it. Cant wait for your next reply about my person!

[Heavens Night]

Sadly, this is where societies are heading right now, where dissenting opinions cannot be tolerated. The whole situation gets bogged down in people's minds that they likely don't even view the full content (similar to just reacting to headlines instead of reading articles and doing your own research), and their sense of entitlement/ego/what have you must suppress or get rid of anything that is contrary to their own opinions. I think the mentality is summed up with the tongue-in-cheek saying of "Don't let facts get in the way of your opinions!" While everything is opinion-based when it comes to the topic at hand, the complaint offered is that YTer's live in their own echo chamber, yet their solution is to listen to another person's echo chamber? Obvious solution (at least it used to be obvious) is to let all opinions come out in the open and decide for yourself. If anyone surrounds themselves with like-minded people all the time and ignores/censors/hides dissenting opinions, they're never going to grow and get stuck in their own heads eventually.

About the specific video that Bellular put out about Torghast, I went and watched it all the way through... and it completely refutes the OP's complaints if you watch all the way through. Towards the end, he pulls out his phone and reads off the pro's and con's of the new affix system. One of the pro's was (paraphrasing) that the affixes give you a sense of being somewhere you shouldn't by having that constant pressure. Throughout the video he even says that this high-paced, psuedo-timed version of Torghast may be what some people want and enjoy. It's reiterated that this is just his opinion, nothing more. If it was truly an echo chamber, their solutions would probably be uniform about what should be done across all the YTer's... and they aren't.

If there is a complaint to be had, it should be the wishy-washy messaging that comes out about their goals and statements. The blue posts not only conflict with their messaging around the affix changes to Torghast and their intent/fucntion, but the alpha is different, too. The last couple years of testing, blue posts, and implementation of features leads me to believe that there's a really high likelihood of an echo chamber mentality within Blizzard independent of what you might thing of YTer's. Even the very recent changes about the corruption system and the new implementation seems extremely short-sighted, and Blizz is already backtracking implementation because of problems that seem very apparent to the average person that plays the game... yet somehow no one at Blizz saw this coming?

Pretty much this ^

You have illustrated my thoughts exactly.

[Zarvel]

Yeah I can't go 5 seconds into a Bellular video without his gigantic ego punching me in the balls.

Don't worry, he got called out on it big time with his disaster of a warlock overview video. It's so clear he's no longer taking full responsibility for researching the content in his videos.

Also, I agree with the OP wholeheartedly. Unfortunately, with the limited alpha testers pool from the community, biased feedback like that is all blizz is gonna receive until the beta phase begins. God forbid anybody outside the YT/Twitch scene or outside the hardcore gamer scene who happens to enjoy the game and would also like to take part in and provide alpha feedback to offer differing opinions.
I see the lack of changes to DK design on alpha and I weep on the inside every time I hear preach heaving praise on it on the alpha in his videos, when it clearly plays just the same as it does now, minus the essences and azerite.

[Super Kami Dende]

I agree mostly due to the point that I despise Idiots speaking for me when it comes to game "fixes".

[Heavens Night]

Don't worry, he got called out on it big time with his disaster of a warlock overview video. It's so clear he's no longer taking full responsibility for researching the content in his videos.

Also, I agree with the OP wholeheartedly. Unfortunately, with the limited alpha testers pool from the community, biased feedback like that is all blizz is gonna receive until the beta phase begins. God forbid anybody outside the YT/Twitch scene or outside the hardcore gamer scene who happens to enjoy the game and would also like to take part in and provide alpha feedback to offer differing opinions.
I see the lack of changes to DK design on alpha and I weep on the inside every time I hear preach heaving praise on it on the alpha in his videos, when it clearly plays just the same as it does now, minus the essences and azerite.

Something he apologised prefusely for, said he got it wrong, and made a new video correcting the mistakes.

I mean I just want to add this for balance here, I was disappointed with that too, but lets give credit where credit is due. He admitted he got it wrong, was very apologetic about it, and made a new one correcting it. I think you missed that off your post?

[Big Thanks]

Sadly, this is where societies are heading right now, where dissenting opinions cannot be tolerated.

What is being discussed is that this youtubers speak as FACTS
And
Speak for the majority or the "many people"

This is plain and simply wrong as they have zero information to make such claims

There is nothing wrong in having an opinion BUT you CANT parse it as a fact and speak for others, which is what is being discussed this youtubers are doing.

If you watched the video i quoted, he:
1) Speaks for the many
2) immediately says Blizzard has a "lack of emotional inteligence" and immediately after says "many people" again

How the hell does he know he speaks for this "many people"? Thats the question.

[Thestrawman]

I agree mostly due to the point that I despise Idiots speaking for me when it comes to game "fixes".

Show the streamer that said 'I speak for Super Kami Dende specifically'.