View Poll Results: Who lost its soul?

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  • Veteran Players

    63 20.39%
  • Game

    94 30.42%
  • Both

    127 41.10%
  • Other

    25 8.09%
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  1. #261
    For me: the game doesn’t try to engage me anymore, it tries to keep me busy.

  2. #262
    It's both.

    I'm not the same person I was 10 years ago. Back in the day I would also relish taking mowing down other people in Wintergrasp or DOTA. These days I just don't have the appetite for organised raiding and PvP anymore.

    To a certain extend it's the same with Final Fantasy VII Remake. I don't really want a strict recreation of the old game in today's graphics. I like what they did and changed the game to suit this era of gaming behaviors. Blizzard for better and for worse has evolved the game through the years based on how we players play the game. They kinda lost it every now and then though. So Blizzard is at fault for this part.

  3. #263
    Legendary! Mush's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isiolia View Post
    I perfectly know the definitions of "veteran". And again, people calling themselves veterans in a game are the lost one.
    Someone saying they've played a game for a long time is bad? k bud

  4. #264
    I am Murloc! Velshin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drusin View Post
    I don't know about losing their soul but I'd say players. It's no different than real life if you live a routine monotonous life. I remember my first time seeing Knucklerot in Ghostlands and Stitches in Duskwood and Fel Reaver in HFP and being like "oh shit!" and getting wrecked by them lol. Now, even if they somehow catch me unaware AND manage to kill me idc and the same goes for any new mob Blizz would add. The game will never ever feel like it felt when I was new and that's down to experience and no fault of Blizzards.
    That maybe true and I agree with you. But can I ask you a question? why then when I played Witcher 3 or the latest Trial of Mana I got that feeling and old sensation of wonder back (like when we were children and played the JRPG for the first time). Doesn't that speak for the quality of the game itself?

  5. #265
    Quote Originally Posted by Isiolia View Post
    I perfectly know the definitions of "veteran". And again, people calling themselves veterans in a game are the lost one.
    Feel free to share with us how i should call people who play wow for 10+ years without demeaning them.

    Im waiting.

  6. #266
    Im pretty happy with classic, and am sure I'll be happy with TBC. Has retail lost its soul? Idk, for me it just isnt fun anymore.

  7. #267
    Quote Originally Posted by relaxok View Post
    Well if you believe the developers, the players have pushed all those things.

    Players pushed for QoL changes, players complained about too many buttons, players wanted to be able to do content with their friends regardless of class (‘bring the player not the class‘), players thought all the stats on gear were confusing and didn’t know when an upgrade was an upgrade
    People literally ask for everything. More crafting, less crafting, same amount of crafting, more raids, less raids, same amount of raids....
    The question is who do the devs listen to.
    And that is apparently the raiders, basically every point of his list was a complaint of raiders.
    Crafting was to grindy and too time-intensive for them so it got neutered.
    Rotations were to complex with all the Raid encounter stuff so classes got pruned.
    Class Synergies made some classes better in some raids encounters (shaman stacking) so those were removed.
    Complex stats on gear made gearing the raid more difficult and required longer farming of already beaten bosses so those were removed.

    I doubt that many casual players had problems with any of the items on the list. Blizz balances its game around raids, if you don't like it, don't play it.

  8. #268
    I expect most people to say both, but the reality is that the players never asked for many of the things Blizzard added to the game, nor did they ask for many of the "improvements" made to certain aspects of it.

    How many changes were made to the PvP gearing system over the course of 5 expansions? 5? How many unnecessary difficulties were added to PvE content? 4?

    The game changed to appeal to a general audience, rather than trying to remain the MMORPG game it always had been. That was where it lost its soul.

  9. #269
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    When i say "i dont feel rewarded for reading the quest" i dont mean receiving rewards (-__-)
    "Rewarded" in the sense of the quest becoming easier or finding new things or unlocking a secret information dump.

    I dont understand the concept of designing 500 lifeless quests.

    Because they are lifeless with the odd interesting one where you are rewarded with a "laugh" or a "woooh thats interesting"
    They had all of this. In Vanilla you had to read the quest text to find the objectives (que mankriks wife memes) and people hated it. Sites like thotbot or add-ons that marked the quest objectives on the maps were super popular. So Blizz added them, now the quest text is just fluff. I still read it the first time i do the quests because i like all the small stories.

    Also you can't compare a single player RPG with a MMO. Yes it may have been cool when you entered the name in the computer and found the person but if you had constant "Where is person X" spam followed by "Third level room 317" in chat and had 10 people in a queue in front of the computer, each of them telling everyone else to hurry up it would probably not have the same level of immersion.

  10. #270
    Both.

    The game changed. Its structure is no more carrot and stick, but a sort of mobile gaming inspired clusterfuck of systems made just to bloat the amount of activities in game, giving people the illusion of "choice" and "content". It sure is done with a purpose - namely keep people playing and paying. It's not wrong per se, but while some stuff improved an awful lot during the years (like the art style), other things became more and more like being an hamster on the wheel. We went from "log in to do X" to "log in to do X so you can do Y so you can do Z and if you miss a day you're fucked".

    Anyway, players did their part. Less social, more focused on "progressing" (= burn through everything as fast as possible) and virtual competitions no one actually has put in game, like the latest iteration with r.io (which is an objectively good system, only used very badly). To the majority of players what you do doesn't matter anymore until you have a "tangible" proof that you're better/ahead of someone else. So devs just follow this route, giving people more and more artificial ladders to climb for the sake of it, adding nothing of value to the game.

    Imho this is why WoW changed. I still like it, and every time i say i won't play anymore i end logging back in, mostly because farming tokens is easy - if i had to pay, i wouldn't log in. The core playstyle is good, i like raiding and being part of a group. But apparently i'm nothing more than an exception, because the more i try the more i find myself struggling behind people who manage to do literally everything in game (and my idea is that they have more than me only a good amount of free time).
    No one wants to choose. Everyone wants everything.

  11. #271
    Quote Originally Posted by GR8GODZILLAGOD View Post
    Not really "lost their soul". People's tastes change when they get older and the game has changed over the years as well. My tastes in games have changed as I grew up and how I played them as well.
    Honestly if I could play something close to my Ranged survival hunter that was near it's LK-MOP design I would resub in a heartbeat, other changes like the scaling takes some of the fun the game used to have too, going into dangerous higher zones or the fun of rollo-stomping old mobs that used to give you a hard time. I really think the current dev's in their pursuit of streamlining and their version of "balance" *especially class design, have sucked a lot of fun out of the game.

  12. #272
    I think it could be both, but I don't think having an easy mode for everything helped with this at all. It's a completely different experience when the path of least resistance is also the most difficult. When the first time you experience a dungeon or raid is the hardest.

    Yes, vanilla doesn't feel the same going back.... because we already did it. If they made fresh content with the same design philosophy it would absolutely recapture that feeling.

  13. #273
    Quote Originally Posted by Isiolia View Post
    I perfectly know the definitions of "veteran". And again, people calling themselves veterans in a game are the lost one.
    >RF:Yogg
    >RF:Alg
    >RF:A'noob
    >RF:LK
    >RF:Goldies
    How very sad that I still don't qualify as a game veteran. Alas, poor Yorick.

    But yeah, you're partially correct there. Assuming that being one of the twenty men who spearheaded the community's advance against freshly released content no longer grants any personal recognition, there is no such thing as 'veteran WoW player'. Blizzard removed them in Cataclysm.
    Last edited by Ontis; 2020-05-19 at 12:09 PM.

  14. #274
    Fluffy Kitten MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dark One View Post
    I wonder how many times you have to repeat this until people understand.

    I bet you have this response in a notepad somewhere to copy/paste by now, I've definitely seen it before. :P
    No, don't have it in notepad. Might be an idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    If we got one dollar each Moana for everytime someone misused the term MAU we would be drunk together on an island we bought for that money.
    I could use the bucks. A fully-stocked island isn't a bad idea either
    “We live in a moment where everything immediately seems to default to outrage. There’s a kind of M.O. of either it’s exactly how I see it, or you’re my enemy.”

  15. #275
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    Feel free to share with us how i should call people who play wow for 10+ years without demeaning them.

    Im waiting.
    Simply a player, and if you want that much to give importance to your own background, then you can go for a long-time player. But it actually doesn't matter in WoW because of how the game evolved, and with that its rules. I've never considered myself as a veteran (and since we're talking background, I've been around since Vanilla), especially because of how the philosophy of the designers changed. I think you'll agree with me, but the current game is nothing like how Vanilla used to be. Also it's way too serious for WoW.

  16. #276
    LK and MOP spoiled me (I knew how good the game was and could be till the current goofs destroyed it), the game over-all was great in LK and the classes were a blast in MOP, right up until the WOD (the start of pruning) class changes hit I was still maxing out alts and having fun, after that it all went shit and I blame that on the Dev's (it was just about an overnight thing for me when wow lost it's "fun") if it was a slow drawn out thing, It would have been me.

  17. #277
    Mechagnome Wolfrick's Avatar
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    Its a very easy question to answer...


    Just look at Classic and how many people came back to world of warcraft... its is 100% clear that with time... the develpers lost touch from reality.


    But thanks God, blizzard made classic and it opend their eyes again, making them understand that so many core things of classic makes the game much much better.

    Dont go all crazy now, I love the current WoW and shadowlands looks like it will be a mix of Classic and current wow... to me it will be one of the best expansions they will ever make.


    but this is Normal, sometimes when you work with stuff over a long time... you lose kinda touch on what really made World of Warcraft a great game and brought people together.
    -

    One Learns most when Teaching others!

  18. #278
    Can anyone convince me why Shadowlands might be worth playing (Horde PoV). Is there anything good in the expansion?

  19. #279
    Quote Originally Posted by Celestraza View Post
    Can anyone convince me why Shadowlands might be worth playing (Horde PoV). Is there anything good in the expansion?
    If you want to hate it, you will hate it.

  20. #280
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostile View Post
    If you want to hate it, you will hate it.
    Just curious what Blizzard will do about the failure that was BFA.

    I see a large portion of the Cutting Edge guilds on my old retail realm died and I hear many are struggling to get raids going. Even from current retail players I hear BFA is just terrible and needs to end soon.

    But even if BFA ends/is over. What then? Is shadowlands going to fix anything that is broken in BfA. Like being pidgeonholed in playing a (broken) spec instead of a whole class? Or the forced and/or gated grinds? The RNGjezus TF loot?

    I am wondering if Blizz will bring anything interesting

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