Who lost its soul? Veteran Players or the Game?

[Ghostile]

Classic is massively screwed up with layers and ginormous servers. With so many players on each server, you never run into the same people twice so it has the same feel as retail where everyone is anonymous. And any time a group of people start congregating somewhere and doing something social, a big red alarm goes off at Blizzard and they activate layers to break it up and force people to solo again.

Hard to get immersed in THAT crap. They need to erase WoW classic, throw layers and huge servers in the trash, and start over.

Last I checked the only time they throw in layers is when the servers are starting to have massive queues, not when they just pile up in the world.

[Throwme]

Do you think this is 100% my fault and im already brainwashed in some way?

Considering all your posts, the answer would be obvious. Yes, it is you. It's not the veteran playerbase. It's not the game. It's you.

[Yunru]

Main problem are the expansions.

Get the best loot --) your gear is now trash in new expansion --) get the best loot again ---) Oh wait its trash again ---) repeat this process ---) get tired of the same thing over and over and over and over and over ...............................and over and over again.

Then there are your main class nerfs and so on.
However invention of a LFG killed the game for me. Since it killed the community.
They tried to fix that in cata (kinda), but whiny new players didnt like it because dungeons were to hard (singe lfg was a 98% chance of failure).

[Ghostile]

Main problem are the expansions.

Get the best loot --) your gear is now trash in new expansion --) get the best loot again ---) Oh wait its trash again ---) repeat this process ---) get tired of the same thing over and over and over and over and over ...............................and over and over again.

Then there are your main class nerfs and so on.
However invention of a LFG killed the game for me. Since it killed the community.
They tried to fix that in cata (kinda), but whiny new players didnt like it because dungeons were to hard (singe lfg was a 98% chance of failure).

LFD didn't kill the community, the playerbase did.
When wow wasn't the only or the best place to socialize with strangers, it slowly turned into what it is now.

And I think it's safe to say, without upgrades the majority wouldn't raid.

[Kralljin]

Main problem are the expansions.

Get the best loot --) your gear is now trash in new expansion --) get the best loot again ---) Oh wait its trash again ---) repeat this process ---) get tired of the same thing over and over and over and over and over ...............................and over and over again.

Expansions?
Mate, you're late to the party, you basically trash most of your gear within the first week of a new patch.

[Yunru]

Expansions?
Mate, you're late to the party, you basically trash most of your gear within the first week of a new patch.

I ragequit in pandaria.

[Throwme]

Here's a guide on how to achieve Bitter Vet status in Eve Online.

As an EVE Vet myself (not bitter, but still), I understood that guide and could actually laugh a little at how silly it is

[deenman]

I get the same feeling when play classic now as when I was 20

thats literaly imposible,i loved the game in classic,but now i cant stand it,sure i got some nostalgia...but its not the same,not even close

its both really,the game has changed from the time we fell in love with it,and we cant recreate those feelings all these years later

[Ghostile]

Here's a guide on how to achieve Bitter Vet status in Eve Online. A lot of the applies to WoW as well, especially the "not logging in" and "accumulating vet points by posting how WoW used to be a better game 15 years ago"

https://eve-files.com/media/1006/bitter_vet.pdf

I never considered myself a bittervet in eve... but.. damn..

[Sanguinerd]

I'd say a bit of both, though I will say data-mining and shit certainly doesn't help.

But in general I think people just take this game way too seriously and Blizzard is almost forced to keep catering to that mind set.

[deenman]

Here's a guide on how to achieve Bitter Vet status in Eve Online. A lot of the applies to WoW as well, especially the "not logging in" and "accumulating vet points by posting how WoW used to be a better game 15 years ago"

https://eve-files.com/media/1006/bitter_vet.pdf

I wish this community had the same self-distance and awareness.

- - - Updated - - -



a.k.a "I'm willing to queue in for weeks just for mUh iMmerSiOn"
Wished by absolutely no one except you apparently.

- - - Updated - - -

And to answer to your questions




Yes.

those anti changes players like him are literaly trolling,no point to bother,if the servers had vanila capacity he would be the first here to complain

[Saltysquidoon]

Here's a guide on how to achieve Bitter Vet status in Eve Online. A lot of the applies to WoW as well, especially the "not logging in" and "accumulating vet points by posting how WoW used to be a better game 15 years ago"

https://eve-files.com/media/1006/bitter_vet.pdf

I wish this community had the same self-distance and awareness.

I laughed, all of this is very applicable to WoW.

I kinda miss the pre-classic faux-nostalgia posts. Where people (who clearly never played vanilla) would make hilariously inaccurate posts extolling its virtues for imaginary internet points from other users pretending to have played vanilla.

[Scottyjscizzle]

It's a little of both. While the has had its changes for better or worse (personally, i like things like lfr/lfd) they hurt the need for a super tight community, however did not remove the community players could easily had talked and still formed one we chose not to because its easier to just use the tools and blame them.

On the player side people base far FAR to much on what others are doing in game to judge its value to them, I've seen posts complaining about how easy the newest mythic raid is "because (insert top-tier guild) cleared it already!!!" while the poster is still working on the normal raid from two patches ago. add on things like data-mining, and videos scraping every...last...piece of content from test realms to analyze and suddenly there is nothing new in game for people because they can't wait for it to be out to experience.

[Sting]

thats literaly imposible,i loved the game in classic,but now i cant stand it,sure i got some nostalgia...but its not the same,not even close

its both really,the game has changed from the time we fell in love with it,and we cant recreate those feelings all these years later

I'm having a blast on Classic. Got my Thunderfury 2 weeks ago. My friends and I brought together a huge amount of people we've met over the years to form a guild. I can definitely say that not everybody enjoyed the experience as much, I think we dropped like 60% of our 150 people to the early leveling grind.

Now we have a pretty solid roster though. We clear MC in 50 minutes and BWL in 1 hour. Not world top times by any stretch but good for a mixed casual / hardcore guild. The forced community aspect really brings out the best in me, it's a sense of all being on the same boat and having to stick it out together.

[TheRevenantHero]

It's the players 100%. The veterans are completely against any kind of change. Even worse, they hate that more players have access to things in game. They can no longer hold it over people's heads that they beat the raids and they didn't. They can no longer make sure a person never gets into a dungeon or raid group again just because they didn't like them. Veteran sense of entitlement is what's wrong, not the game.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

You cannot argue the game hasn't lost its soul when Game Director Ion is out there in an interview comparing WoW to a fantasy-skinned social network. The game's been getting smaller and smaller, and the complexity shallower and shallower basically since WoD, with early warning signs already popping up in MoP. Shedding all the things that made it unique in an effort to keep MAUs high.

But also the top end players sold their soul in the name of a .01% DPS increase. They were the ones that started a lot of trends that ended up birthing the toxic community the game has now. Cookie cutter builds, FotM classes, class stacking in general, faction/race changing for optimal racial, using the PTR as basically extra clear attempts. We're already starting to see them rally to kill the last bit of RPG flavor in Shadowlands in the name of their meters.

[oldgeezer]

I'm still plenty immersed in the game, and it's pretty much the only thing I play. That's my anecdata for your anecdata.

[Kithelle]

Little bit of both...

[Sting]

But also the top end players sold their soul in the name of a .01% DPS increase. They were the ones that started a lot of trends that ended up birthing the toxic community the game has now. Cookie cutter builds, FotM classes, class stacking in general, faction/race changing for optimal racial, using the PTR as basically extra clear attempts. We're already starting to see them rally to kill the last bit of RPG flavor in Shadowlands in the name of their meters.

Interesting point, I kinda feel like this behaviour pushes Blizzard to tune the top end content harder, which just encourages more of what you described. Would making mythic raids less hard be a good solution?

[Erlking]

I think it is both. We have been playing this game for far too long, there is no more mystery left. Also I feel before developers were passionate about the game, they wanted create a game which they wanted to play. We hear stories of developers creating content on their own time. After all these years I think now to a lot of them its just a job. People who were the driving force behind the game Mike Morhime, Chris Metzen already quit the game.