Is food at restaurants really generally cheaper than in Europe?

[Coolthulhu]

Depending on what nation you are in you could have "free" healthcare. Belgium has an income tax of 55% i believe but our health care is "free".

But is it efficient? For instance, how much do you have to wait in order to have, say, a nevus checked for possible malignancy? Aside from that, I'm inclined to believe that 20k a year would still be horrible anywhere in Western/Southern/Middle Europe - even assuming a terribly efficient healthcare system and free education. Perhaps it'd be OK in Eastern Europe, I wouldn't know.

[Acidbaron]

I'd imagine so in the US, sounds like very little to live on over there.

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Yep, 20k/year where I live goes a long way, lets you own a house and save and consume. I'll get a lot of quality of life for that sum.

That's the mistake a lot of people make, they don't compare the whole cost of living. There are ways however to exploit difference between nations in the EU to your advantage.

Working in the Netherlands and living in Belgium is one of those situations that is very advantageous for Belgians, as i pay significantly less income tax, i do need to pay for a health insurer in the NL, but i maintain access to the Belgian one with the one exception that on holidays the nation i work in is the one that counts.
So i pay 37% income tax instead of 55%, i purchase a cheap health insurer so that i am legally covered what cost me about 90 euros monthly but i still have the Belgian one what is about worth what 300 400 a month, considering our state one includes a dental plan.

I have the same cheaper rates on road taxes since i pay those in Belgium where in rough comparison what i pay for yearly, the dutch pay that amount every 3 months. They also pay by how heavy the car is or something silly, so it is far cheaper to drive around in a big car here than there.

If you had to compare wages in bruto though you would think i would earn far less in NL and than in BE but it couldn't be further from the truth.

20k seems about right for a lot of people here also, i mean most people here are below 2K a month, my group of between 2 to 3K a month really is not that large if i check among my friends. 2K+ generally is college degree jobs with certain (industrial) technical occupations. Seems little but i am certain if we had to compare 1 on 1 with americans of the same level of education they would end up far less, also we don't have college's that put people in debt.

[Aurgjelme]

For the same item at about the same quality of restaurant I payed about 14$ in the US, and 32$ in Norway.
And dont even ask about the prices on alcohol.

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I'd imagine so in the US, sounds like very little to live on over there.

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Yep, 20k/year where I live goes a long way, lets you own a house and save and consume. No worries about healthcare costs etc.

In a couple years I'll have completed an education that lets me further increase the income by 10k/year. And that education is basically free, I'll have to pay for travel to and from the locale, and my lunch... <.<
Then I'll be considered middle-class, I think? Not sure, not that it matters much.

20k a year would be pretty low just over the border from you. Below the poverty line by good margin.
And while paying for a house is possible, it would be hard to get a loan to buy one at that salary.

The average salary in Norway was 4300$ a month last year as far as I know.

[Acidbaron]

But is it efficient? For instance, how much do you have to wait in order to have, say, a nevus checked for possible malignancy? Aside from that, I'm inclined to believe that 20k a year would still be horrible anywhere in Western/Southern/Middle Europe - even assuming a terribly efficient healthcare system and free education. Perhaps it'd be OK in Eastern Europe, I wouldn't know.

Before corona, i can go to the site of my GP and book an appointment on the day if i am early on the day and depending on what week day as mondays are most busy, or the day after, available from Monday to Saturday, including house visits if you are really to sick to leave your resident.

There is always the emergency room for actual emergencies, where the wait time can be longer as your position is determined by your severity in light of other people waiting, but you aren't going to die there and you are not going to be kicked out on the street.

nevus? I had discovered bumps a few years ago that hurt so your first idea is cancer (wasn't cancer), went in with my GP that day, got an appointment to check it the next week i think? The time off from work is also covered by work, you get an attest if you were sick or had to go some where so your pay isn't docked for that day.


It is not a lot that 20K but as i said you really have to compare it in context of everything else, all other taxes and benefits you get. Don't just look at healthcare and education but the whole package from unemployment coverage to sick leave. There is also an indexation of wages, what means if the cost of living goes up so do the wages automatically get adjusted, That's not to say we don't have poverty here we do sadly.


Also the 20K, i am speaking of a suburban / rural region. Cities obviously wages are different and they also do vary per region.

[Coolthulhu]

Before corona, i can go to the site of my GP and book an appointment on the day if i am early on the day and depending on what week day as mondays are most busy, or the day after, available from Monday to Saturday, including house visits if you are really to sick to leave your resident.

There is always the emergency room for actual emergencies, where the wait time can be longer as your position is determined by your severity in light of other people waiting, but you aren't going to die there and you are not going to be kicked out on the street.

nevus? I had discovered bumps a few years ago that hurt so your first idea is cancer (wasn't cancer), went in with my GP that day, got an appointment to check it the next week i think? The time off from work is also covered by work, you get an attest if you were sick or had to go some where so your pay isn't docked for that day.


It is not a lot that 20K but as i said you really have to compare it in context of everything else, all other taxes and benefits you get. Don't just look at healthcare and education but the whole package from unemployment coverage to sick leave. There is also an indexation of wages, what means if the cost of living goes up so do the wages automatically get adjusted, That's not to say we don't have poverty here we do sadly.


Also the 20K, i am speaking of a suburban / rural region. Cities obviously wages are different and they also do vary per region.

One week is pretty impressive, I'll give you that, although if you're speaking about a rural region... well I expect waiting times to be exponentially higher in urban contexts. Sick leave is pretty much a given in welfare states, and that 20k still seems awfully low for a Western European context, but I've never been in rural Belgium, so I might be wrong. What I do know is that in most non-Eastern European contexts it'd qualify as "borderline poverty" -living off of welfare typically denotes poverty.

[Deathknightish]

A 2-person lunch at a low-rated place in Stockholm, can set you back 150 euro, and that's seen as "fair"... In my city (Umeå), I can eat for 30 euro at a VERY nice restaurant and yes, there's no tipping required.

I've always been of the impression that even with tipping culture, the US has lower prices than comparable restaurants in the big cities here in Sweden.

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Was not aware of that difference... I'll be making 23k EURO/year in a couple of months when I go up to full-time, and I'll still be considered lower-class scum... o.O

What? Where? I visit Stockholm like 3 times a year and always eat out. Prices aren't that much higher than in my city (Göteborg), unless you go to Östermalm or Norrmalm, but those are kinda-rich people neighbourhoods. On Söder or around T-centralen prices are very humane. My father and I ate on a very good meat restaurant on Söder last year, and 2 main courses and 2 beers and 2 glasses of wine went for like 580 SEK.

[Acidbaron]

One week is pretty impressive, I'll give you that, although if you're speaking about a rural region... well I expect waiting times to be exponentially higher in urban contexts. Sick leave is pretty much a given in welfare states, and that 20k still seems awfully low for a Western European context, but I've never been in rural Belgium, so I might be wrong. What I do know is that in most non-Eastern European contexts it'd qualify as "borderline poverty" -living off of welfare typically denotes poverty.

Rural Belgium is a bit of an incorrect term perhaps considering how densely population the nation is, i wouldn't be able to tell you to hospital times in Brussels or Antwerp but i really wouldn't think it is that much longer. A lot of it depends on the department, echo and sonografie for detecting such lumps is rather fast, pneumology (lungs) would be longer. 20k for the worker not middle class seems about normal. Think minimum wage is 1500 to 1600 a month? Depends on occupation of course.

It all depends on the severity, we also have "medical centrums" spread over the nation that also take over the regular check ups, so they also have quite a bit of equipment obviously they won't have MR machines or anything that high end. But how ill you are does matter, when i needed a check up as i was diagnosed with a possible serious lung issue, things do notably speed up. Once they needed more confirmation it wasn't weeks between appointments to do tests, it all went rather fast.

Our waiting times will probably be longer but that is not absurd and so long it is in a reasonable time frame it shouldn't really matter. We do have a very high accessible level of healthcare and as our care givers are not managed exclusively by a "for profit" management or system it also means that people from the netherlands come here for a second opinion or care for cancer cases, where in the netherlands they tend to write a person off sooner.

I find that difference in motivation, that luxury doctors can have here also mention worthy.

[Grapemask]

On average, restaurant food is about the same price in the US as Europe. Sure, you'll find some cheap places, but that's true in Europe too.

Our tipping culture in the US isn't really connected to food being cheaper. Maybe that's one of the lies our capitalist overlords tell to explain it, I wouldn't be surprised. Our food is only priced such that it makes the managers and the owners the most money. Libertarians will insist that restaurants will be forced to lower prices if the cost+tip is more than the average consumer is willing to pay, ie the invisible hand of the market, but like most things Libertarians believe, this is not actually how the world works.

[Tziva]

I think it's incorrect to assume that the "savings" from server wages as passed on to the consumer in the form of price reductions on food rather than profit margins to the restaurant in America. In some places that might correlation to cheaper food but I don't know that that is common enough for it to universally translate that way. Obviously paying your staff total shit money means you can operate with tighter margins, but I don't think there is any thought process where people are factoring in that diners are paying their staff's wages so they can get a price reduction on their sandwich.

As far as restaurants in the US vs Europe, there isn't really a correct answer to this. The US is massive and has huge price variability between regions and cities. Additionally, in America chain restaurants are very common and these are typically more expensive (even the cheaper chains) than what you can find in local "hole in the wall" type restaurants; they also might have normalised prices across the entire country. That said, I would say that it is possible to eat very cheaply in the US almost anywhere if you are not picky about quality or healthfulness. I wouldn't say that is because of tipping culture, however. The US mass produces a lot of processed foods so they are very cheap. The country also has a lot of agriculture and doesn't need to import many foods, which also translates to low cost. There are also just an astronomical selection of venues in the US which can also drive prices. I think all of these contribute to the availability of cheap restaurant meals.

On the same token, it is hard to blanket compare to Europe because Europe has such a huge range in prices. A meal that costs 100 CHF in Zurich might be like 20 EUR in Hanover or 70 GBP in London. I've found some countries very reasonable to eat in, and some very expensive. There are places (especially on the lower quality food end of the spectrum) where the US and Europe are probably pretty similar, but there are some places where food is almost going to be more costly across the board.

[breadisfunny]

Someone who makes $20k a year is classified as "middle class".

The makeup is mainly from drink, french fried and cake.
The burger and main dish may not have makeup.
It depends on the business model.

NO ITS NOT. it's considered lower class to borderline poverty.

[xenogear3]

Anything special about these crazy high price restaurants?
Or is it just a ripoff?

I heard all restaurants buy the cheapest raw material.
If you want good food, cook yourself.

[zealo]

A 2-person lunch at a low-rated place in Stockholm, can set you back 150 euro, and that's seen as "fair"... In my city (Umeå), I can eat for 30 euro at a VERY nice restaurant and yes, there's no tipping required.

I've always been of the impression that even with tipping culture, the US has lower prices than comparable restaurants in the big cities here in Sweden.

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Was not aware of that difference... I'll be making 23k EURO/year in a couple of months when I go up to full-time, and I'll still be considered lower-class scum... o.O

If a 2 person lunch costs you 150 euro at a "low-rated" place in Stockholm, you're being ripped off.

[Boricha]

If you go to an average sit-down restaurant in my area, entrees typically range from $9-15 depending on the meal. Then there's the tip, which is like $2-4. The lower end is usually a meal that has less or no meat, like noodle dishes, while the higher end is grilled seafood. My experience in England was that prices were about the same, but I wasn't really thinking about USD to GBP conversions.

[Queen of Hamsters]

If a 2 person lunch costs you 150 euro at a "low-rated" place in Stockholm, you're being ripped off.

Well, the reviewer was getting ripped off.

To me it was an insane price, especially for what they got.

[TEHPALLYTANK]

Remember that having a 10k monthly income (or more) is common in the US

Where did you get this number from? I'm curious about the data you used that lead you to conclude it is common in the USA to have an annual income exceeding $120k.

[Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang]

That's the mistake a lot of people make, they don't compare the whole cost of living. There are ways however to exploit difference between nations in the EU to your advantage.

Working in the Netherlands and living in Belgium is one of those situations that is very advantageous for Belgians, as i pay significantly less income tax, i do need to pay for a health insurer in the NL, but i maintain access to the Belgian one with the one exception that on holidays the nation i work in is the one that counts.
So i pay 37% income tax instead of 55%, i purchase a cheap health insurer so that i am legally covered what cost me about 90 euros monthly but i still have the Belgian one what is about worth what 300 400 a month, considering our state one includes a dental plan.

I have the same cheaper rates on road taxes since i pay those in Belgium where in rough comparison what i pay for yearly, the dutch pay that amount every 3 months. They also pay by how heavy the car is or something silly, so it is far cheaper to drive around in a big car here than there.

If you had to compare wages in bruto though you would think i would earn far less in NL and than in BE but it couldn't be further from the truth.

20k seems about right for a lot of people here also, i mean most people here are below 2K a month, my group of between 2 to 3K a month really is not that large if i check among my friends. 2K+ generally is college degree jobs with certain (industrial) technical occupations. Seems little but i am certain if we had to compare 1 on 1 with americans of the same level of education they would end up far less, also we don't have college's that put people in debt.

Or even outside the EU. There's no legal minimal wages on the federal level here (the people said no), but some Kanton do have one, and some branches will have a negociated one, or big retail companies will tout having one.

For reference the legal minimal wage that had been discussed, and sort of became the reference, was around 4'000CHF/month (around 4'100USD or 3'800EUR), for about 40h of work per week, 20 days paid leave plus ~10 days of public holidays (depends on Kanton or even area, plus some employers might give more). Bear in mind that this is a brutto amount, around 15% will be deducted to pay your share of social insurances (employer will pay about double that), health insurance not included (several Kantons have subsidy mechanisms to make premiums not exceed 10% of income). We also have to pay our income taxes on our own afterwards.

Living with such a wage in a single earner household is hard, given the levels of rent in the cities, the price of transportation, daycare, and general living.

On the other hand, Frontalieri or fresh immigrants can accept wages as low as 3000 in an unskilled position and still make a decent living if they continue living in France, given the much lower costs of living (they will get French service tough). In skilled to highly skilled positions, they can relatively easily accept wages in the 4-5k range, which for locals are hard to survive on and still be middle-class (median income is ~6500/month, while average is ~6000)

Residence in France is apparently very attractive even relative to Germany, as housing in cheaper, taxes are lower and riding on the French social security is advantageous for families compared to the mandatory health insurance systems in Germany or Switzerland. One of the best spots reportedly being the tri-border zone around Basel, where one can work in Switzerland, live in France, and shop in Germany.

[Gamevizier]

Food in general is cheaper in the US than in Europe. Americans might be stereotyped to be fat and obese, and America is also stereotyped to have so many junkfood places, but there is one truth behind this stereotype that needs to be considered: That the US is geographically in the perfect spot and technologically capable to mass produce food to feed it's population and provide cheap food. Compared to their income, The cost of groceries in the US is substantially lower than compared to other countries thanks to the abundance of food in America.

[unbound]

One of the explanations for the tipping culture in the U.S is that in return, prices at restaurants in the U.S are cheaper than what you find in Europe, but is that a fact or just a myth?

It's just propaganda. Large chain or small expensive restaurant owners like to push the narrative that their prices would be much, much higher to pay workers any better, so people should tip instead. Prices at restaurants around the world involve a multitude of factors, and worker wages are usually not that significant percentage of costs. The owners like to talk about wages because it is one of the few costs that they can play games with, so they need to make the wages sound like a bigger issue than they really are.

The reality is that prices would not go up as much as most people think to give workers better wages. I remember reading an analysis a few years ago that pointed out that for Walmart to give all their workers a $12.50 / hr minimum wage would only cost consumers $0.50 per trip...not per item, per trip to Walmart if they fully passed that cost to the consumer (this was back when $7.25 / hr was the common wage at Walmart).

The same is true at most restaurants. You don't have 4 or 5 people dedicated to you for the 90 minutes or so at the restaurant (cook, server, manager, busboy, etc). You have 4 to 8 cooks in the kitchen making a hundred plates of food (probably more) in that 90 minutes. The server is typically working 5 to 8 tables at a time. The manager is dealing with the entire restaurant. And so on.

[kamuimac]

Remember that having a 10k monthly income (or more) is common in the US, and they are not paying 50% income tax on it.

Buying a 10 dollar meal is cheap then.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Person..._United_States

common ? data certainly doesnt support your claims

[FluFF]

One of the explanations for the tipping culture in the U.S is that in return, prices at restaurants in the U.S are cheaper than what you find in Europe, but is that a fact or just a myth?

I've been to New York, Miami/Orlando, San Francisco, Santa Barbara and Los Angeles, and I must say that everywhere I've eaten, prices have been comparable to those that I find in Sweden, and western Europe in general.

Well first of all you only name big cities in the US so it's gonna be more expensive than lets say a hickplace restaurant in the middle of Alabama, also 3 of the places you named are in California which is OMEGALUL for prices.

When people say food is cheaper in the US they usually reference to chains of restaurants or fast food places, money to food ratio you get way more in a US KFC or McDonalds than you would get in a UK or Dutch KFC or McDonald's, they got way more ''deals'' that are focused on getting as much as possible in your hands for lets say 8-10 bucks, that price only buys you 1 medium Menu in the UK or most EU McDonald's chains.

I never heard of the connection between cheaper food cause you have to tip, I always thought tipping was just a cultural thing cause you know it makes up a huge deal of the person's hourly wage so you tip for the service you get ( was it friendly ? was it quick ? was it good ? )

I never heard of '' food is cheaper cause you have to tip '', what is true though is that portions in the US are way bigger then in the EU ( talking about restaurants here, though its also true for fast food places ) but that's just cause they are used to it.

Unless you visit a 3 star Michelin restaurant of course, then you still get 1 salad leaf with 55 grams of meat and 3/4th of a potato cut in a fancy way for 120 bucks.