Another "I can't breath" death: Police Reform & Protests in the USA

[Coniferous]

He killed unarmed people. That's murder. The rest is just noise, including this trial.

https://www.britannica.com/topic/murder-crime

Did you read that post? Because I'm sure it includes something about intent, and about self defense, several other things. Not just "killing unarmed people is always murder".

I didn't read it yet, by the way, because I know what murder is... go ahead, read it and prove me wrong lol. Include a quote in your response!

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Then why reply to me directly?

Maybe because instead of focusing on what you were trying to say, I was trying to make a point that you might think about? This isn't really that hard by the way, it's how conversation works. People get on the internet and they get all lawyery with simple back and forth.

[Orange Joe]

Maybe because instead of focusing on what you were trying to say, I was trying to make a point that you might think about? This isn't really that hard by the way, it's how conversation works. People get on the internet and they get all lawyery with simple back and forth.

Why would I need to think he wasn't a hardened villain. I never made the implication I thought he was.

See no matter how you try to spin it this is gonna come back to you trying to imply I thought he was a hardened villain.

[Coniferous]

Why would I need to think he wasn't a hardened villain. I never made the implication I thought he was.

See no matter how you try to spin it this is gonna come back to you trying to imply I thought he was a hardened villain.

So then what you do is respond, "I don't think he is a hardened villain either, but" and then you make your case. Have you ever had a conversation before?

[cubby]

You do realize it's not called murder when a jury decides it was self-defense. It's called justifiable homicide. Literally, not murder. And a news publication that calls it "murder, the rest is just noise" could be sued for defamation.

Yep, just like OJ.

The kid is on record prior to the event saying he wanted to go kill some people. Then he did. That's murder - or killing with malice aforethought. It's 50/50 that he'll get away with it, but like a few notable trials, we all know what really happened.

[Orange Joe]

So then what you do is respond, "I don't think he is a hardened villain either, but" and then you make your case. Have you ever had a conversation before?

You mean something like this?????......

Where did I say he was a harden villain? You seem to be reading something I didn't type.

Have you ever had a conversation before?

[cubby]

Did you read that post? Because I'm sure it includes something about intent, and about self defense, several other things. Not just "killing unarmed people is always murder".

I didn't read it yet, by the way, because I know what murder is... go ahead, read it and prove me wrong lol. Include a quote in your response!

See above, malice aforethought.

And, for a killing to be a murder, there typically has to be either an intent to kill, or, at minimum, conduct so reckless that it is punishable as murder.

Rittenhouse purposefully drove to a protest, with a rifle, and roamed around looking for targets.

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Do us a favor. If you're gonna call out people for lying, make sure the things you post are accurate. Grosskreutz was definitely armed when he was shot by Rittenhouse. He was pointing a gun at Rittenhouse's head, in fact.

So we're clear he murdered two armed people. Thanks for confirming that.

[Coniferous]

You mean something like this?????......





Have you ever had a conversation before?

Ok, I give up, this is hopeless. I would have been interested in what you actually had to say, but we're lost in some hinterland of "when you said this you said/implied that I thought that and therefore this means...", I mean, jesus christ. Just respond to what the person wrote, instead of going off on a tangent of what you think they think about you and what that means about them. Holy balls this is a waste of time.

[cubby]

Honestly, I wouldn't include a lesser included offense that was quite literally swatted down by the judge today in your post. I know what you're getting at, but it seems you aren't acquainted with which lesser included offenses that the judge is allowing. The prosecution does not get to argue Rittenhouse is guilty to a lesser degree on that specific charge. So pick a newer story that includes today, or go watch the video yourself.

The judge in the trial of Kyle Rittenhouse said on Friday he would instruct the jury they can consider the prosecution's argument that the teenager provoked an encounter with one of two men he fatally shot during protests in Wisconsin last year.

That's today, Nov 12.

[Orange Joe]

Ok, I give up, this is hopeless. I would have been interested in what you actually had to say, but we're lost in some hinterland of "when you said this you said/implied that I thought that and therefore this means...", I mean, jesus christ. Just respond to what the person wrote, instead of going off on a tangent of what you think they think about you and what that means about them. Holy balls this is a waste of time.

lmfao. what tangent did I go off on? Do you even understand what you are reading or writing or are you just doing this so you can act outraged?

You implied I thought something.
I told you I didn't
You cried that you didn't actually imply anything.
I proved you wrong and now we are here.

[tehdang]

Yep, just like OJ.

The kid is on record prior to the event saying he wanted to go kill some people. Then he did. That's murder - or killing with malice aforethought. It's 50/50 that he'll get away with it, but like a few notable trials, we all know what really happened.

Strange that he didn't approach people and shot them, but spent the night trying to render medical aid and put out fires. It wasn't until people chased him down and lunged at him, kicked his head, hit him with a skateboard, or leveled their pistol at him that he actually shot.

Which gets to the problem with your thinking. What he talks about with his friends beforehand while unarmed isn't the same context to when he has the weapon and can put action to his words.

And you have the problem with your twin's argument: Rosenbaum confronted Rittenhouse saying "Shoot me, n*****" "Shoot me, n*****" "If I catch any of you f***ers alone, I'm going to f***** kill you." Then he tried to make good on the threat.

[Aurrora]

You are the only one consistently lying in this thread. You have made several statements that have been clearly proven to be lies, and you continue to derail the thread with your mistruths.
(if you're curious about your specific lies, just look to every time Endus responds - he's been all over your lies from the beginning)

Kyle Rittenhouse murdered two unarmed people and injured a third unarmed person. The "self defense" theory is his lies storied upon the dead not being able to testify. Everything else is just noise for racists glad to see that another murdered got free.

The lies in this thread have been from people trying to come up with scenarios to say how the 36 year old man who is seen consistently being the most aggressive person in the crowd, who had to be held back by other demonstrators, who made death threats to Kyle, was somehow not a threat to the 17 year old he was chasing after. Get out of her with your dishonest bullshit.
If actually bother to follow the threads of my replies to Endus you'll see I'm consistently correct, as he slunk off from this thread for a few days after he proved I was right about police officers having the same use of force requirements as civilians in Wisconsin.

[Coniferous]

lmfao. what tangent did I go off on? Do you even understand what you are reading or writing or are you just doing this so you can act outraged?

You implied I thought something.
I told you I didn't
You cried that you didn't actually imply anything.
I proved you wrong and now we are here.

Nope, we're done. Not reading this.

[Orange Joe]

Nope, we're done. Not reading this.

We were done a long time ago. You are only just realizing it. lol

[Coniferous]

See above, malice aforethought.

Rittenhouse purposefully drove to a protest, with a rifle, and roamed around looking for targets.

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So we're clear he murdered two armed people. Thanks for confirming that.

Ah, you modified your earlier definition to include malice aforethought! Thank you. Now we can have a conversation, I'm glad you learned what murder is.

See this is important because that part that you didn't understand (malice aforethought) is what I disagree with. Your evidence is he said something off the cuff, but people say a lot of things. Personally I would need more.

[tehdang]

That's today, Nov 12.

Lovely link, are you going to update your last post or acknowledge that you cited a lesser charge that was rejected by the judge today?

I need to know you can look back on and understand that you wrote "He's facing more than just the first degree murder charges though, including second degree all the way "down" to second degree reckless homicide." and that's wrong. Not that their seeking to invalidate self-defense by means of provocation, but on lesser charges.

I'll ask you what you want to discuss on your current link when you can address your last link. "Said they would seek approval for the jury to consider lesser charges" and you posted it as him facing, for example, second degree reckless homicide. It is untrue. You misspoke, or didn't understand your last link. I have very little faith there's anything good to discuss with your future links if you don't stand by your former posts on the last ones.

[Aurrora]

So, they met up as a group then? And this former employee seemed like he was in charge. And, according to you, all of them were hired to protect properties? And then they started recruiting others to join them?

That sounds an awful lot like an organized group with a stated objective and a leader.

No, that's a disorganized group. Endus is trying to characterize them as a militia with some sort of preexisting relationship with each other when this isn't the case, it seems more like they were pairs of friends that eventually congregated to this Car Source lot with the owner's permission. Dominick Black and Kyle had just met Nick Smith that day, through him they connect with the owners of the Car Source. Ryan Balch had no previous affiliation with either of them and had just travelled into town to help where he could, and also doesn't seem to have known JoAnn Fiedler prior to evening.

[Micfeind]

eventually congregated to this Car Source lot with the owner's permission.

Stop Lying
Seems the most adequate response to this dross.

[Aurrora]

A meaningless designation.

Fact is, he lied and said he was an EMT when he wasn't.



That isn't on video, at all. He walked over, they pepper sprayed him, he left. No attempt to turn himself in, and no, walking in their direction for a moment doesn't qualify.

THAT IS THE ATTEMPT. What the fuck do you think he was supposed to do stand there getting pepper sprayed until the cop starts to wonder why he's not leaving? He turned himself into the nearest safe police station he knew of.

It's another lie, which damages his credibility. Also raises questions about how justified he actually felt about the shooting.

Particularly as he lied immediately after and told the crowd that Rosenbaum was armed and that's why he shot him.

So many lies that fell apart.

No it fucking doesn't.

Rosenbaum had as much right as Rittenhouse to be there.

And? Kyle's not the one that attacked Rosenbaum.

Also, again, no "attack" at any point.

Yes he did, stop lying.

Right before he shot Rosenbaum. As he admitted on the stand, stating very clearly that he brandished his weapon at Rosenbaum as a threat that he would kill Rosenbaum. That was his admitted intent, by doing so. He literally said this on the stand, and I don't know why you're disputing it.

Rosenbaum never attacked Rittenhouse. Not ever. You still can't point to any single action that Rosenbaum engaged in that qualifies as an "attack".

Rosenbaum was ALREADY a threat to him at this point, the prosecution isn't even trying to argue the bullshit you're spewing here. Kyle was privileged under the law to threaten Rosenbaum to try to dissuade him from attacking.
STOP
LYING

[PhaelixWW]

THAT IS THE ATTEMPT. What the fuck do you think he was supposed to do stand there getting pepper sprayed until the cop starts to wonder why he's not leaving? He turned himself into the nearest safe police station he knew of.

Lol, nah. He ran home and then his mom told him to turn himself in.

[Aurrora]

Lol, nah. He ran home and then his mom told him to turn himself in.

Why the fuck did he walk right up to the police cruiser then? Get out of her with your lies.