Another "I can't breath" death: Police Reform & Protests in the USA

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

Yet the thread is about police reform. Events surrounding that are important too.

Events like cops murdering people. And, in your case, events like "reckless driving"

[Nastard]

Stop arguing with this muppet. He literally stated in this thread that he takes a contrarian view because he's afraid of being thought as ordinary. In the face of such overwhelming negative response to his posts, most people might ponder "hmm, maybe I might be wrong about this." This guy takes it as a positive because he thinks it means he has a unique mind.

Also, you're debating the definition of reckless driving with someone who just yesterday thought it was "wreck less" driving. Clearly he's not going to have much to add.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

Instead of in a thread about police reforms. How about you start one about how you hate cops and the recent 5 Cops that murdered a motorist.

Cops murdering civilians is relevant to a thread about police reform. Reckless driving is not.

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Stop arguing with this muppet. He literally stated in this thread that he takes a contrarian view because he's afraid of being thought as ordinary. In the face of such overwhelming negative response to his posts, most people might ponder "hmm, maybe I might be wrong about this." This guy takes it as a positive because he thinks it means he has a unique mind.

The sheer smoothneess of his brain makes it very unique.

Also, you're debating the definition of reckless driving with someone who just yesterday thought it was "wreck less" driving. Clearly he's not going to have much to add.

That's not accurate. He still thinks it's "wreckless" driving today.

[diller]

They aren't a real thing here, it's a boogie man made up by alt-right and truly delusional people.

ANTIFA is real, what you are right about is that they aren't an organization with a leadership and such.

And yes the right like to attribute everything to them which is obviously wrong.

[Fugus]

@Doctor Amadeus
You keep going on about Reckless driving. Based on what evidence?

You mention Law and Order, he followed the law, he followed their orders we have video evidence of it with him complying to their orders except for laying on his chest which the police themselves prevented him from doing. What evidence do you have of him not following the law or their orders before they started beating and tazering him?

[Doctor Amadeus]

@Fugus
I’m not talking about him. I was simply referring to reckless driving by itself as it relates to law enforcement. I moved past the recent events after I’ve clarified my position twice which is once more than I should have.

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ANTIFA is real, what you are right about is that they aren't an organization with a leadership and such.

And yes the right like to attribute everything to them which is obviously wrong.

For all intense purposes here in the U.S it’s a boogie man and doesn’t exist. It’s the alt right excuse to blame any protest they dislike as Antifa

[Fugus]

@Fugus
I’m not talking about him. I was simply referring to reckless driving by itself as it relates to law enforcement. I moved past the recent events after I’ve clarified my position twice which is once more than I should have.

Alright, then could I recommend you guys take that topic to a new thread outside. Just move it to General Off-Topic since it wouldn't any longer be considered politics and just have it there.

At this point, we need a whole other thread to keep this on topic at this point.

[Doctor Amadeus]

Alright, then could I recommend you guys take that topic to a new thread outside. Just move it to General Off-Topic since it wouldn't any longer be considered politics and just have it there.

At this point, we need a whole other thread to keep this on topic at this point.

The thread is about police reform and protest. Not just recent events. Likely because none of it is allowed anywhere else.

[Fugus]

The thread is about police reform and protest. Not just recent events. Likely because none of it is allowed anywhere else.

Ohhhh poop. I stand corrected. As you were.

Didn't pay attention to the title as much and mentally just associated it with this recent event and the Floyd events.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

The thread is about police reform and protest. Not just recent events. Likely because none of it is allowed anywhere else.

Reckless driving has nothing to do with police reform. The only context reckless driving is even being discussed is in regards to this case... and only because it was, allegedly, the incident that kicked off the actual event being discussed

But it actually doesn't matter what the victim was being accused of. He could, as I said earlier, have raped and murdered a busload of school children...and it still wouldn't change what the video clearly shows to be the brutal murder of a man by police officers.

[Endus]

@Fugus
I’m not talking about him. I was simply referring to reckless driving by itself as it relates to law enforcement. I moved past the recent events after I’ve clarified my position twice which is once more than I should have.

Here's the problem.

"Reckless driving" is only a potential risk.

You're arguing that police should be able to use force to stop the driver who's driving recklessly.

Any such force in the overwhelming majority of cases presents more of a safety threat to bystanders than the reckless driving does. We're talking either shooting at the vehicle hoping to hit the driver, or trying to hit the car and knock it out of control, so it comes to a stop, with a Pitt Maneuver or the like.

When the driver isn't posing an imminent threat to any particular individuals, there's no justifiable cause to use such violence. This is especially true if the driver has been pulled over. No violence can be justified at this point.

There simply is no threat that use of force is required to bring to an end. Short of that, you're literally arguing for police brutality against minor offenses just because the person in question might be breaking the law (this is by no means confirmed, at this point). This is absolutely insane.

In Tennessee, it's a Class B Misdemeanor. If killing someone to stop this crime is justifiable for reckless driving, it should be for any others. Like prostitution. Just shoot the prostitute, or beat her into the hospital, according to you. Or even if we consider a Class A, a step up, for things like having a joint on you when the cops hassle you; they can beat the shit out of you or kill you for that, according to you. Or for stealing a candy bar.

It's absolutely fucking insane, and exactly the kind of purely fascist boot-licking bullshit you're claiming you're not supporting. You're lying to us when you say that, because your arguments are supporting police brutality and abuse. Directly and overtly. Encouraging violence to stop/punish non-violent crimes.

[Doctor Amadeus]

Ohhhh poop. I stand corrected. As you were.

Didn't pay attention to the title as much and mentally just associated it with this recent event and the Floyd events.

Np I would have taken the suggestion otherwise. This like the gun control mega thread I always viewed as an on going conversation.

as for recent events I learned more here than I had seen online. I was just curious as I check the thread from time to time. Most of the time I agree with the consensus. So I say nothing as not to echo chamber.

However as things were unfolding and still I simply spoke to the over all conversation.

In any event like the rest time to watch and see before there is anything else to say about the situation specifically.


However I’ll admit I’m exhausted by the over all lack of progress on the overall issue.

I think the trend where cities and state are moving more towards isolation and police are abandoning others.

[Levelfive]

No none of that is true.

When the west was being settled some territories didn't even have police or sheriffs the consequences being similar to what we have now, courts of public opinion and consensus not the law or facts.

It's also in addition to MOBS full out gangs ran towns. However as the U.S expanded into the west part of membership into the union for investment and development cleaning that sort of thing up became paramount.

Police in General have ALWAYS existed in some form or another since the first Human Civilization.


However the POLICE as WE know them in the U.S were developed as a way to keep the peach, to enforce law and order. Simple as that



When communities feel crime runs rampant, nobody is held accountable that is when communities begin to take justice into their own hands. Which is why today we do it more civil. Vote, and elect and campaign for changes and laws we like to see.

But just as sure as that COPS are there to make sure those laws are kept.


Bottom line that is why we have police, and personally along with a lot of other people, I do NOT want police or cops to abuse their charge, however we also don't want police ineffective to do their jobs.

It is NOT always perfect, but not being perfect, doesn't always mean corrupt, or wrong.

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One issue doesn't have to do with another, this is a recent event, not every event. And Reckless driving is still pretty serious. regardless to what these 5 said.

Jesus Christ.

"It would be easy to think that the police officer is a figure who has existed since the beginning of civilization. That’s the idea on display in the proclamation from President John F. Kennedy on the dedication of the week of May 15 as “National Police Week,” in which he noted that law-enforcement officers had been protecting Americans since the nation’s birth.

In fact, the U.S. police force is a relatively modern invention, sparked by changing notions of public order, driven in turn by economics and politics, according to Gary Potter, a crime historian at Eastern Kentucky University.

Policing in Colonial America had been very informal, based on a for-profit, privately funded system that employed people part-time. Towns also commonly relied on a “night watch” in which volunteers signed up for a certain day and time, mostly to look out for fellow colonists engaging in prostitution or gambling. (Boston started one in 1636, New York followed in 1658 and Philadelphia created one in 1700.) But that system wasn’t very efficient because the watchmen often slept and drank while on duty, and there were people who were put on watch duty as a form of punishment.

Night-watch officers were supervised by constables, but that wasn’t exactly a highly sought-after job, either. Early policemen “didn’t want to wear badges because these guys had bad reputations to begin with, and they didn’t want to be identified as people that other people didn’t like,” says Potter. When localities tried compulsory service, “if you were rich enough, you paid someone to do it for you — ironically, a criminal or a community thug.

As the nation grew, however, different regions made use of different policing systems.

In cities, increasing urbanization rendered the night-watch system completely useless as communities got too big. The first publicly funded, organized police force with officers on duty full-time was created in Boston in 1838. Boston was a large shipping commercial center, and businesses had been hiring people to protect their property and safeguard the transport of goods from the port of Boston to other places, says Potter. These merchants came up with a way to save money by transferring to the cost of maintaining a police force to citizens by arguing that it was for the “collective good.”

In the South, however, the economics that drove the creation of police forces were centered not on the protection of shipping interests but on the preservation of the slavery system. Some of the primary policing institutions there were the slave patrols tasked with chasing down runaways and preventing slave revolts, Potter says; the first formal slave patrol had been created in the Carolina colonies in 1704. During the Civil War, the military became the primary form of law enforcement in the South, but during Reconstruction, many local sheriffs functioned in a way analogous to the earlier slave patrols, enforcing segregation and the disenfranchisement of freed slaves.

In general, throughout the 19th century and beyond, the definition of public order — that which the police officer was charged with maintaining — depended whom was asked.

For example, businessmen in the late 19th century had both connections to politicians and an image of the kinds of people most likely to go on strike and disrupt their workforce. So it’s no coincidence that by the late 1880s, all major U.S. cities had police forces. Fears of labor-union organizers and of large waves of Catholic, Irish, Italian, German, and Eastern European immigrants, who looked and acted differently from the people who had dominated cities before, drove the call for the preservation of law and order, or at least the version of it promoted by dominant interests. For example, people who drank at taverns rather than at home were seen as “dangerous” people by others, but they might have pointed out other factors such as how living in a smaller home makes drinking in a tavern more appealing. (The irony of this logic, Potter points out, is that the businessmen who maintained this belief were often the ones who profited off of the commercial sale of alcohol in public places.)

At the same time, the late 19th century was the era of political machines, so police captains and sergeants for each precinct were often picked by the local political party ward leader, who often owned taverns or ran street gangs that intimidated voters. They then were able to use police to harass opponents of that particular political party, or provide payoffs for officers to turn a blind eye to allow illegal drinking, gambling and prostitution."

https://time.com/4779112/police-history-origins/

https://www.insider.com/history-of-p...e-of-slavery-2

https://www.npr.org/2020/06/13/87662...ly-intertwined

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2...-of-the-police "“The police,” as a civil force charged with deterring crime, came to the United States from England and is generally associated with monarchy—“keeping the king’s peace”—which makes it surprising that, in the antimonarchical United States, it got so big, so fast. The reason is, mainly, slavery."

[Flarelaine]

Ohhhh poop. I stand corrected. As you were.

Didn't pay attention to the title as much and mentally just associated it with this recent event and the Floyd events.

The thread has become a de facto megathread for all police overreach. After all, every incident is a reminder of the necessity of said reforms.

[Anastacy]

People still respond to Mall Cop?

[PACOX]

Don't worry guys. Always trust the police and its your fault if you don't Its only a few bad apples and not the way the institution was designed from the ground up. It will eventually correct itself right? If not in the first 200 years, maybe in the next!

https://www.ajc.com/news/crime/tyre-...D2NILO5Q2EYWI/

Tyre Nichols case: Memphis police chief was once fired from Atlanta Police Department

At least, they dissolved so-called SCORPION unit. One of many units that exist in throughout the country by different names (officially and unofficially) which pride themselves on being 'tough' and 'getting results'. Wonder how many people have raised complaints against it throughout the years?

When you make excuses for the police, you enable this behavior.

[Edge-]

At least, they dissolved so-called SCORPION unit. One of many units that exist in throughout the country by different names (officially and unofficially) which pride themselves on being 'tough' and 'getting results'. Wonder how many people have raised complaints against it throughout the years?

When you make excuses for the police, you enable this behavior.

Chief apparently changed her mind on that in like 24 hours going from "No we can't let the actions of a few impugn the good work of the entire unit" to "We just can't let this unit continue in light of these events."

And all I'm wondering now is who in that unit are they protecting.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

Chief apparently changed her mind on that in like 24 hours going from "No we can't let the actions of a few impugn the good work of the entire unit" to "We just can't let this unit continue in light of these events."

And all I'm wondering now is who in that unit are they protecting.

It may not be any specific individuals... they just may not want to open this Scorpion unit up to any additional scrutiny. They might have some other arrests that nobody wants looked at too closely. Give it 6 months and they'll have a new tough sounding task force doing the exact same things Scorpion was involved in.

[Cthulhu 2020]

So a sixth WHITE officer who participated in the beating of Tyre Nichols has been placed on leave. Not fired and charged with murder. Put on leave.

As if we needed to spell out just how racist this institution is.

[Edge-]

So a sixth WHITE officer who participated in the beating of Tyre Nichols has been placed on leave. Not fired and charged with murder. Put on leave.

As if we needed to spell out just how racist this institution is.

IIRC there were other officers on the scene who didn't actively participate in the murder, but also didn't do anything to help Tyre and shit. Sounds like one of those cats, and this would likely be part of department policy to put on leave while under investigation and not charged. I won't pretend race may not be a factor, but it's not the only factor.