Another "I can't breath" death: Police Reform & Protests in the USA

[Easo]

https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreak...est_a_man_for/

Cops are fine. Try to arrest a dude for talking, he flees, they shoot him in the back. Thankfully it was with a less-lethal round so he'll probably just have a nasty ass bruise.

Police. Are. The. Fucking. Problem.

So is it the police or the institutionalized racism? Which one is it? Because I am fairly sure the idea was that current state of USA police is just a consequence, not a cause. Because if you think they are the cause... Well... xD

I've seen the video of the guy chasing him.

Being chased by someone yelling does not constitute a lethal threat of force, and that means lethal force is not justified in defending yourself.

"I was being chased and was scared so I shot him" is a murderer describing motive, not a victim describing a justifiable legal defense.

Especially not when you crossed state lines with an illegal weapon to deliberately put yourself into that situation, to have that opportunity.

At which point does it become OK to shoot them? After getting hit by fists or those sticks, maybe? How much further should he run? Until he get's into tight corner where he lashes out? Oh wait... Why even run after him in the first place, throw stuff at him, at someone armed?
Brah, you seem to be disconnected from realities of how humans work and that this is not a game and the nice theories and laws of how stuff should be evaporate in actual life. Seems they were disconnected too.

So I will say as I said before - I saw no one smart or reasonable there, just a moron with a gun and bunch of other morons who forgot that guns do kill people, quite messily at that.
This is not black vs white, us vs them, racists vs BLM, this was just a grey mass of morons.

[Edge-]

So is it the police or the institutionalized racism? Which one is it? Because I am fairly sure the idea was that current state of USA police is just a consequence, not a cause. Because if you think they are the cause... Well... xD.

Oh you got me there!

Or like, policing is built on institutionalized racism and maintaining those power structures, so that even when white folks protest the racism and corruption within law enforcement they are viewed as a similar threat and handled accordingly.

This is pretty basic shit.

[Felya]

When riots became intrinsic to police killings, duh.

What? Police misconduct obviously leads to riots... it’s been the case for as long as history. What the fuck are you talking about militias being intrinsic? Were they there during Rodney King? During Trayvon? When has this happened before?

Edit: Looks like the opposite is true... looks like militias has a long history of fighting cops, not defending them:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruby_Ridge

https://www.npr.org/2020/05/29/86390...-back-to-court

Edit: There is even a wiki page:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_boogaloo_killings

U.S. Air Force sergeant Steven Carrillo was arrested soon after the second attack. A second suspect, Robert Justus, surrendered to authorities five days later. The FBI indicated that Carrillo was associated with the boogaloo movement, a loosely organized American far-right extremist movement whose participants say they are preparing for a second civil war.[1][2][3] Carrillo used the George Floyd protests as a cover to attack police officers, according to the FBI.[4] A white van owned by Carrillo contained a ballistic vest with a patch bearing boogaloo symbolism. Carrillo is alleged to have written "boog" and the phrase "I became unreasonable" (a popular meme among boogaloo groups) in his own blood on the hood of a vehicle he hijacked.[5] According to federal authorities, the suspects were motivated by the boogaloo movement's ideology, and allegedly intended to spread extremist views

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just a moron with a gun and bunch of other morons who forgot that guns do kill people, quite messily at that.

Are you sure they went after him because they forgot, not because they just witnessed it and were trying to prevent more?

[Mayhem]

If Trump makes his "promise" come true and shoots someone on 5th avenue, i suppose these poster will roll in with:

"Well he said that he'd do it. So anyone being on 5th avenue was willingly being ok with being shot. No way to blame Trump. Also, the dead guy jaywalked 20 years ago - he had it coming!"

The mental gymnastics...

Well, of course, if you brake the law once, you're a criminal forever and ever. Unless you're a Trump supporter or so then you're just smart because you broke the right laws... I just can't keep up anymore it's just hypocrisy after hypocrisy mixed with inconsistency.

[VamosH]

Why do you consider being a Trump supporter to be an insult?

Because his personality stinks. So I find it insulting that you associate me with being his supporter from out of nowhere. So where's your apology. Still waiting on it.
[Infraction]

[kamuimac]

A teenager grabbed an AR 15, went across state lines, then showed why teenagers shouldn’t carry guns.

technically it should have been police and national guard shooting all of those looters.

what this shows is that teens in US have more balls then politicians and police/army .
[Infraction]

[DarkTZeratul]

It was about laws saying if there was a deadlock that each state gets a single vote in the house, despite the house being meat to represent. Which makes it akin to the senate, which THE BICAMERAL SYSTEM WAS SPECIFICALLY MADE TO APPEASE SLAVERS

Your ignorance of history is your own problem, but do not subject me to it.

Some context:

https://scholarship.law.marquette.ed...0&context=mulr

This is all about the 12th amendment, which SPECIFICALLY HAS COMPROMISES FOR SLAVE STATES And the bit about contingent elections is in section 1, which that law review, specifically states was all around compromises with southern slave states.

I'm sorry I'm more knowledgeable about the fucking history of this country and can cite sources and explain how these issues are race related, but maybe instead os saying it isn't, ask why is it.

Also just so you are aware this amendment came in 1804 and replaced article two procedure for these cases. And the twelfth is filled with concessions for slave states.

Next time instead of defaulting to "but it can't be race because I'm white and I don't think so" Ask why is it about race... because maybe you'll learn something?

"Slavery existed and was referenced in the laws" does not mean "every single part of the system exists solely because of slavery." But your staggering inability to separate "decisions that were made because of slavery" and "other decisions related to the same systems because they were trying to build a functional fucking government" is both nothing new for you and wildly off-topic in this thread, so I won't continue any further.

[Edge-]

technically it should have been police and national guard shooting all of those looters.

Looting is not a crime perishable by death, even if a suspect is convicted.

what this shows is that teens in US have more balls then politicians and police/army .

No, it just shows that you have a murder-boner and place no value on human life.

This is your brain on Tucker Carlson.

[Felya]

technically it should have been police and national guard shooting all of those looters.

what this shows is that teens in US have more balls then politicians and police/army .

Dude... I swear to god... neither a big gun nor a fast car, actually makes your balls adequate...

[Lorgar Aurelian]

So I will say as I said before - I saw no one smart or reasonable there, just a moron with a gun and bunch of other morons who forgot that guns do kill people, quite messily at that.

This is not black vs white, us vs them, racists vs BLM, this was just a grey mass of morons.

Jesus imagination being so far up your own ass that you see people dying trying to disarm an active shooter and think it’s not a black and white issue.

[Jastall]

Why was a seventeen year old, a minor, wandering the streets of a city he apparently didn't even live in carrying a loaded AR-15? Who in their right mind gives their underage son a loaded gun and lets them go play around in another city, in another state, in during a major riot? How did this minor even end up in this situation?

What sort of batshit irresponsible parent lets their teenage son go off to live action roleplay a CoD game with a loaded gun? If I had a son of that age who asked to go to a riot with a loaded gun I'd beat the hell out that kid.

Okay, self-defense? Dude what was that teenager doing there? Can a 17 year old even be legally walking around at night unsupervised (I think) with some not insignificant firepower in his hands. How did he get that gun? Who gave it to him? Can a 17 year old buy an AR15, I was under the impression you had to be 18 at least to buy any gun. So was it his parents? Did his militia friends give it to him? Why is a minor hanging out with militia people?

Maybe he is technically not guilty of murder, still there is an entire chain of events that led to this happening and I find in implausible to absurd that someone shouldn't be in jail for this, either Kyle for actually you know killing two and seriously mutilating another, or his parents for letting their son have a loaded rifle to go play solider, or these militia people for bringing a minor on board and giving him a loaded rifle.

We may disagree on many things, but I 100% agree with this post and have the same questions. This entire chain of events is baffling to me, and any train of thought attempting to normalize what is at best vigilante justice from reckless and irresponsible teenagers is doomed from the start as far as I'm concerned.

Even if the kid's actions are ruled as legitimate self-defense (which I strongly doubt), everyone involved- the police, parents, the guy himself- failed at something here.

[Zeth Hawkins]

Illinois doesn't recognize stand your ground laws either. Which is probably an additional factor in why this kid was charged with first degree murder.

If we are discussing "duty to retreat", video shows Rittenhouse attempting to retreat before each shooting.

The first shooting occurred after Rittenhouse was cornered in the dealership lot.

The second shooting occurred after Rittenhouse retreated down the street. He then fell, and had nowhere to retreat to.

[Easo]

Oh you got me there!

Or like, policing is built on institutionalized racism and maintaining those power structures, so that even when white folks protest the racism and corruption within law enforcement they are viewed as a similar threat and handled accordingly.

This is pretty basic shit.

Who controls and orders police departments? This is pretty basic shit indeed

On a sidenote - do you think BLM and the whole protester movement as such has popular support?

Are you sure they went after him because they forgot, not because they just witnessed it and were trying to prevent more?

They witnessed what? He did not start shooting until after they did not stop chasing him aka the moment in the video where some woman throws a bag at him and others wave sticks. He had not made a single shot yet at that point, unless I am very mistaken.

Jesus imagination being so far up your own ass that you see people dying trying to disarm an active shooter and think it’s not a black and white issue.

I get a feeling that you are missing the fact that there were two episodes in this event.

[Felya]

has the overton window on this forum moved so much that we have to tolerate people openly calling for people to be killed?

No, you just have to do it within forum rules... it’s not hard... (that’s what she said )

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They witnessed what? He did not start shooting until after they did not stop chasing him aka the moment in the video where some woman throws a bag at him and others wave sticks. He had not made a single shot yet at that point, unless I am very mistaken.

Him killing someone at the dealership?

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On a sidenote - do you think BLM and the whole protester movement as such has popular support?

That’s a catch 22... if it had popular support, it wouldn’t exist.

[Machismo]

technically it should have been police and national guard shooting all of those looters.

what this shows is that teens in US have more balls then politicians and police/army .

Calling for murder... no surprise there.

[Edge-]

Who controls and orders police departments? This is pretty basic shit indeed

Police chiefs, usually. Mayors have control to a point, but there's a long, long, long history of police departments using organized crime tactics to maintain budgets and get their way when it comes to city issues. "Oh, this city councilor wants to reduce budgets? It'd be a shame if we stopped responding to calls in his area. Or started harassing him and his constituents. A real shame."

Just because a mayor may have "control" over a police department doesn't mean that they control the institution of policing.

On a sidenote - do you think BLM and the whole protester movement as such has popular support?

https://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2020...tter-movement/

As of June, BLM sure did. Not sure what the more recent numbers are.

[downnola]

If we are discussing "duty to retreat", video shows Rittenhouse attempting to retreat before each shooting.

The first shooting occurred after Rittenhouse was cornered in the dealership lot.

The second shooting occurred after Rittenhouse retreated down the street. He then fell, and had nowhere to retreat to.

Again, for the umpteenth time in this thread: Running in between cars and then turning around firing a rifle into an unarmed persons face is not attempting to retreat or remove yourself from the situation. A real retreat would have been in the opposite direction towards the police. Even despite all of that, turning around and shooting an unarmed person who is chasing you is not a valid form of self-defense, especially in a state that doesn't recognize "stand your ground" laws.

[Themius]

"Slavery existed and was referenced in the laws" does not mean "every single part of the system exists solely because of slavery." But your staggering inability to separate "decisions that were made because of slavery" and "other decisions related to the same systems because they were trying to build a functional fucking government" is both nothing new for you and wildly off-topic in this thread, so I won't continue any further.

The decision made specifically about representation and how elections are carried out were made largely due to concessions with slave states wanting to perpetuate slavery.

How is it off topic for me to say the first section of the twelfth Is heavily influenced by slavery and what it outlines likely is due to slavery as they give more representation to the minority slave states... you know what the whole section was about!

But let me guess you are going to disagree with academics. Historians and constitutional lawyers.

If you want to get on my level and have a sensible conversation, go study more about the history of this country.

Does it hurt your feelings many laws in this country were created Under the fog of slavery?

[Felya]

Calling for murder... no surprise there.

Why does everything revolve around cuck and balls for these people... it’s infuriating... it makes it seem all of this is just propagandist tapping into male insecurity.

[AeneasBK]

So where's your apology. Still waiting on it.

Always a classic line