Another "I can't breath" death: Police Reform & Protests in the USA

[s_bushido]

Also, we get to see Tucker Carlson meltdown. That's fun right?

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1...b047b9f8b40e4d

It's the only way his brand of...whatever the hell he's supposed to be...survives: yell loudly and ignore what you don't want to hear.

"Police inaction" is why things are boarded up? lol... I wonder what action he wanted to see the police take. Just straight-up spraying protesters rioters with ammunition?

[JohnBrown1917]

Not sure how I feel about this shooting... sure the optics are very bad considering the trial... but are we suggesting they should have let the girl stab others?

On the other hand those cops who responded "blue lives matter" need to face disaplenary action... stroking tensions even if you personally feel that the shooting is 100% justified is not how you do your job.

Just goes to show, even if they have a solid reason to shoot, they are still total sociopaths.
They just could not contain how happy they where they had a reason to shoot a non-white kid.

[Felya]

I still think a taser should have been used first... but when a suspect is wielding a knife at people I’m not sure if a taser is police protocol in that situation, or if it would even 100% stop them?

I think there maybe people who wouldn’t be stopped by a taser in this situation, which also goes for shooting the leg or those marksman arguments... but, I don’t think that’s what was on the cops mind in that moment. You see someone getting stabbed, you do what it takes to stop them...

[josykay]

Shooting per se is less of an issue. Telling the neighbours "Blue lives matter", is just ridiculous, and the cops should be fired regardless.

[Katchii]

I still think a taser should have been used first... but when a suspect is wielding a knife at people I’m not sure if a taser is police protocol in that situation, or if it would even 100% stop them?

Idk, this one has me conflicted. Other countries, where police don’t carry guns, have situations where suspects are carrying weapons and it doesn’t usually end in the suspect being shot and killed.

I'm conflicted as well.

Other countries have situations like this where people don't end up dead, so what are they doing that we aren't?

In that situation when the police had their guns drawn already and the girl was seconds away from stabbing someone, it's not like they have a lot of time to react and change tact to stop her and protect the other person than to use the tools they already had out, but did they HAVE to have their guns out? Were there absolutely no other options?

[Endus]

I think most would argue that shooting her legs should have been an option, but I don’t know how viable of an option that really is in that moment for the officer. My first thought is him missing and her still stabbing the girl. Body shots are done because, well, your torso is a larger target.

The problem with that idea is that shooting someone in the leg could easily hit the femoral artery, and they'll bleed out in less than a minute. And a lot of body shots aren't fatal. It isn't really a smart choice if you're trying to not kill the target.

This is why pretty much any weapons training teaches you to never even point your weapon at a target you don't intend to kill with it. You might not kill the target, but you might. Even if you aim for the leg. It's still lethal force and you need to understand that.

Trying to hit the super extremities like hands or feet is incredibly difficult because they tend to be the smallest targets, and the fastest-moving ones to boot. A marksman can make that kind of shot, but I wouldn't expect most police officers to be capable of it.

[Orange Joe]

This also seems to assume that people only become more empathetic as time goes on it moves in both directions just look at isis the other group using violence and fear to spread a message.

I will always look at those trying to tear down history as foolish. Erasing the past isn't effect. It's one thing for a monument to fall to disrepair but for them to be torn down usually shows nothing but hubris and foolishness from those involved.

Who are the ones erasing the past. The ones who don't want to hear of them doing bad things. Or the ones saying "Hey these were bad people not good"?

[JohnBrown1917]

I'm conflicted as well.

Other countries have situations like this where people don't end up dead, so what are they doing that we aren't?

In that situation when the police had their guns drawn already and the girl was seconds away from stabbing someone, it's not like they have a lot of time to react and change tact to stop her and protect the other person than to use the tools they already had out, but did they HAVE to have their guns out? Were there absolutely no other options?

Not much to be conflicted about after the cops started to taunt the girl's[they had just shot] family after all this.

[SirBeef]

I'm conflicted as well.

Other countries have situations like this where people don't end up dead, so what are they doing that we aren't?

In that situation when the police had their guns drawn already and the girl was seconds away from stabbing someone, it's not like they have a lot of time to react and change tact to stop her and protect the other person than to use the tools they already had out, but did they HAVE to have their guns out? Were there absolutely no other options?

Many police here pay for basically kill training that is not done through the academies or their police departments. There are ex military guys that teach them how to inflict the mist pain without looking like they are torturing suspects.

[Muzjhath]

I'm conflicted as well.

Other countries have situations like this where people don't end up dead, so what are they doing that we aren't?

In that situation when the police had their guns drawn already and the girl was seconds away from stabbing someone, it's not like they have a lot of time to react and change tact to stop her and protect the other person than to use the tools they already had out, but did they HAVE to have their guns out? Were there absolutely no other options?

Well, in Sweden becoming a Police Officer involves a 2 and a half year education. First two years of education, then half a year of more in the field with officers training.
Among the theoretical bits there are law and crime, sociology and psycology, social work and civics, along with some other stuff. All crafted around the core mission of the police.
The last half year is made to let people experience a broader set of experiences and get on the jobb training, and is a paid position. (The first two years (four semesters) qualifies for student support).

[Felya]

QAnon has a take on this... apparently Chauvin is a crisis actor... as part of Satanist taking over America.

[Karreck]

Also, we get to see Tucker Carlson meltdown. That's fun right?

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1...b047b9f8b40e4d

Wow. I know it's become old hat to say it at this point, but Tucker Carlson is a turd waffle. And what was up with that laugh?

[Felya]

Wow. I know it's become old hat to say it at this point, but Tucker Carlson is a turd waffle. And what was up with that laugh?

He is literally acting like the joker... he became the meme...

[Karreck]

He is literally acting like the joker... he became the meme...

I got strong "Patrick Bateman is about to cleave my skull with an axe" vibes off that laugh.

[Rennadrel]

I'm conflicted as well.

Other countries have situations like this where people don't end up dead, so what are they doing that we aren't?

In that situation when the police had their guns drawn already and the girl was seconds away from stabbing someone, it's not like they have a lot of time to react and change tact to stop her and protect the other person than to use the tools they already had out, but did they HAVE to have their guns out? Were there absolutely no other options?

American police have issues with de-escalating situations and aren't trained to do so properly. That's the biggest need to reform the system. We have significantly less issues of police shooting people in Canada because our cops do have to learn how to take control of situations without the use of force. But also it's a ton of work for our police if they have to discharge a gun. The SIU gets involved to investigate, the officers have to spend basically a whole work day just filling in paperwork and of course, there's a lot more legal scrutiny involved when it is found that an officer did discharge their gun without following all other required protocols before doing so.

Does that mean that we don't have cops indiscriminately shooting people? No, it still happens on occasion but it happens a lot less on average because the system has been structured to deter the use of force as much as possible.

Edit: As an aside, I am glad that Chauvin got convicted. The system needs to stop upholding cops who kill people indiscriminately and use excess of force without repercussions. The US legal system needs to start putting these people in line and there needs to be a huge improvement in the training and handling of situations so that these kinds of events stop happening.

[Elegiac]

Merrick Garland announced that there will be a federal investigation into the Minneapolis Police Department to ascertain if it has a pattern or practice of unconstitutional or unlawful policing, including use of excessive force. "‘Yesterday’s verdict in the state criminal trial does not address potentially systemic policing issues in Minneapolis … public safety requires public trust."

- - - Updated - - -

Not sure how I feel about this shooting... sure the optics are very bad considering the trial... but are we suggesting they should have let the girl stab others?

I am pointing out the disparity between this situation and the cops' treatment of white mass shooters who miraculously seem to emerge from their sprees unharmed. American police suddenly remember that deescalation and nonlethal weapons are things in the latter case.

[cubby]

Terrific look at the beginning of the rest of Chauvin's life:

Administrative Control Unit in the state of Minnesota.

Still so happy this verdict came down the way it did. Guilty on all counts is a huge win, and hopefully the start of real reform.

[Easo]

Terrific look at the beginning of the rest of Chauvin's life:

Administrative Control Unit in the state of Minnesota.

Still so happy this verdict came down the way it did. Guilty on all counts is a huge win, and hopefully the start of real reform.

I will not comment anything about the case itself, but this place is a shithole (though I can easily imagine even worse ones). Says more about the prison system itself and all that comes from/due to it.

[Katchii]

Not much to be conflicted about after the cops started to taunt the girl's[they had just shot] family after all this.

I wasn't stating they were good or bad. My only point is at that exact moment, because of the choices they made before, they were very VERY limited in their options on how to address the issue of the girl about to stab somebody.

Things could and should have gone differently before they pulled their guns, however at that exact moment, their guns were already drawn and they needed to stop the girl from stabbing someone else.

I'm not conflicted about the idea that things need to change and that the situation should have gone differently, it absolutely should have and the training of police officers needs to change dramatically so that pulling their guns isn't a decision made so quickly or (seemingly) lightly, but at that moment, the girl was trying to stab someone while the police had their guns drawn and pointed at her....wtf did she think was going to happen?

Many police here pay for basically kill training that is not done through the academies or their police departments. There are ex military guys that teach them how to inflict the mist pain without looking like they are torturing suspects.

Not denying that, even a little bit. See above. Their training is woefully lacking. But that's not any individual police officer's fault, that's the systems fault. Without trying to downplay the individual's responsibility and accountability, they're just doing what they're trained to do within the system they were put through. They don't dictate or control the kinds of training their superiors and the police in general put them through. The system needs to be change, training needs to be changed. Until that's done, I don't see how we can reasonably expect things to get meaningfully better.

My conflict comes from that specific moment. At that specific moment, they did what they needed to stop that girl from stabbing someone. But, they shouldn't have put themselves into a situation where their limited choices were A) kill someone or B) let the suspect stab someone.

Obviously things need to change so that the first reaction isn't to pull guns so they don't end up in that situation in the first place.

Well, in Sweden becoming a Police Officer involves a 2 and a half year education. First two years of education, then half a year of more in the field with officers training.
Among the theoretical bits there are law and crime, sociology and psycology, social work and civics, along with some other stuff. All crafted around the core mission of the police.
The last half year is made to let people experience a broader set of experiences and get on the jobb training, and is a paid position. (The first two years (four semesters) qualifies for student support).

This is what I was getting at with my questions at the end. This is what the US needs. FAR more comprehensive training. The power, responsibility and expectations of being a police officer require far more extensive training than what the vast majority (generalizing because i don't know and can't speak to what every single district does as far as training) of US police districts currently get.

American police have issues with de-escalating situations and aren't trained to do so properly. That's the biggest need to reform the system. We have significantly less issues of police shooting people in Canada because our cops do have to learn how to take control of situations without the use of force. But also it's a ton of work for our police if they have to discharge a gun. The SIU gets involved to investigate, the officers have to spend basically a whole work day just filling in paperwork and of course, there's a lot more legal scrutiny involved when it is found that an officer did discharge their gun without following all other required protocols before doing so.

Does that mean that we don't have cops indiscriminately shooting people? No, it still happens on occasion but it happens a lot less on average because the system has been structured to deter the use of force as much as possible.

Edit: As an aside, I am glad that Chauvin got convicted. The system needs to stop upholding cops who kill people indiscriminately and use excess of force without repercussions. The US legal system needs to start putting these people in line and there needs to be a huge improvement in the training and handling of situations so that these kinds of events stop happening.

All of this. I agree.

[Gelannerai]

He is literally acting like the joker... he became the meme...

I think he’s scared shitless. I think they all are. They live in a world where their livelihood is inextricably tied to conservative rhetoric. That rhetoric has gotten decidedly more racist and authoritarian over the past several years (shocking, I know), and anyone that is perceived to not be in lock-step with the shock jocks currently running the GOP are immediately ostracized, labeled as RINO’s, and threatened with “destruction” by a certain anthropomorphic orangutan. They did it to themselves. They purposefully created a media-driven narrative that painted BLM and any resistance to police brutality as “liberal” and “socialist,” which in turn makes racism and authoritarianism the default conservative platform.

Making your bed and lying in it and all that.