Another "I can't breath" death: Police Reform & Protests in the USA

[Yuujin]

I already explained as others in this thread have as well. If the taser landed he could have taken the cops real gun, and things could have ended much worse.

Again, he was clearly just trying to get away from them.

[Endus]

Oh, jeez. Posted without further comment.

Texas prosecutors probe irregularities in 2004 Floyd arrest

Jesus.

Everyone knew Floyd had a checkered past. This wasn't a secret; it just didn't matter.

If it turns out that past was only checkered because of police abuse and the planting of false evidence, and forcing Floyd to take a plea deal despite being likely innocent because he had no chance of winning in court against that planted evidence, the man's not just going to be the emblem for victims of police abuse, but the abuses of the entire legal system.

[Felya]

There's also no fucking reason to kill someone while they are running away. That's an act of complete cowardice.

That’s a very good point... are there any rules in ending the pursuit, if the “criminal’s” life is at risk? I know that highway chases are supposed to be stopped in public areas... but, is there anything to protect the perpetrator, from excessive force or self/accidental harm? Considering that they are not actually criminals, until convinced... technically, these would be rules to protect the innocent.

- - - Updated - - -

I already explained as others in this thread have as well. If the taser landed he could have taken the cops real gun, and things could have ended much worse.

Why the fuck is a dude asleep at the wheel, become that much of a threat? Where did he get the taser? I don’t understand why this guy had to die, because the cop is a royal fuck up...

If he was afraid of the taser, let the guy go... he was asleep in his car...

- - - Updated - - -

If it turns out that past was only checkered because of police abuse and the planting of false evidence, and forcing Floyd to take a plea deal despite being likely innocent because he had no chance of winning in court against that planted evidence, the man's not just going to be the emblem for victims of police abuse, but the abuses of the entire legal system.

Consider the career path of someone who was convicted and how his life could have played out, if he wasn’t. This isn’t a single arrest, it’s live altering for the duration of it. A wrongful conviction isn’t forgotten when you leave prison...

[Egomaniac]

Jesus.

Everyone knew Floyd had a checkered past. This wasn't a secret; it just didn't matter.

If it turns out that past was only checkered because of police abuse and the planting of false evidence, and forcing Floyd to take a plea deal despite being likely innocent because he had no chance of winning in court against that planted evidence, the man's not just going to be the emblem for victims of police abuse, but the abuses of the entire legal system.

Oh yeah. It's like a whole onion. So many layers.

First: This involves a cop that is already on trial for murder after lying to obtain a warrant. The same thing that happened to Breonna Taylor.

Second: This cop has apparently been falsifying evidence for at least a decade (if evidence is found that indicates he did the same to Floyd that extends it to 15+ years.) without anyone catching on until last year. Dozens of convictions have been overturned because of this. That's likely some combination of actually guilty people that are now free and actually completely innocent people that were railroaded and lost years of their lives.

Third: George Floyd may have been a victim of Police abuse at least once before.

Fourth: Basically what you said about Floyd potentially being forced into taking a plea deal due to falsified evidence

Five: If true, anyone still arguing about Floyd being a "thug" doesn't even have that thin excuse to stand on anymore

Six: Probably other shit I'm not thinking of or am just not currently aware of.

As you said...this could shine a really ugly light on the entire legal system...further fueling the demands for police and prosecutorial reform.

- - - Updated - - -

That’s a very good point... are there any rules in ending the pursuit, if the “criminal’s” life is at risk? I know that highway chases are supposed to be stopped in public areas... but, is there anything to protect the perpetrator, from excessive force or self/accidental harm? Considering that they are not actually criminals, until convinced... technically, these would be rules to protect the innocent.

Based on what ive been hearing from some of the experts being interviewed on the news...there's really no reason to chase the guy. They've got his car. They can find out who he is and have a squad car wait for him at his home.

[Aurrora]

Jesus.

Everyone knew Floyd had a checkered past. This wasn't a secret; it just didn't matter.

If it turns out that past was only checkered because of police abuse and the planting of false evidence, and forcing Floyd to take a plea deal despite being likely innocent because he had no chance of winning in court against that planted evidence, the man's not just going to be the emblem for victims of police abuse, but the abuses of the entire legal system.

He had a criminal history before the 2004 arrest though, just because the cop's dirty doesn't mean all of his arrests were fake.

[Endus]

He had a criminal history before the 2004 arrest though, just because the cop's dirty doesn't mean all of his arrests were fake.

Yeah, that's the ticket. Double down on the "he MUST be a bad guy, because he's black" angle.

Like we can't tell exactly what you're really driving at by maligning a victim of police abuse.

[Aurrora]

Yeah, that's the ticket. Double down on the "he MUST be a bad guy, because he's black" angle.

Like we can't tell exactly what you're really driving at by maligning a victim of police abuse.

What? I'm just pointing out that his 2004 arrest is unlikely to be a case of planted evidence. He already had a criminal history so this isn't a case of 'he wasn't a criminal until the system made him one' and he'd already had a previous conviction for the same crime so it's unlikely this is case of the charges being false.

[Egomaniac]

What? I'm just pointing out that his 2004 arrest is unlikely to be a case of planted evidence. He already had a criminal history so this isn't a case of 'he wasn't a criminal until the system made him one' and he'd already had a previous conviction for the same crime so it's unlikely this is case of the charges being false.

Read the damn article:

Goines arrested Floyd after giving money to a third person, which the person then allegedly used to buy less than half a gram of crack from Floyd, Schiller said.He said the money used in the buy was never recovered, the third person is not identified in case records and the presented evidence likely would not meet prosecutors current standards.

So, who's the third person, and where's the money?

If that doesn't sound at least a little bit suspect...you need to get your ears checked.

[Endus]

What? I'm just pointing out that his 2004 arrest is unlikely to be a case of planted evidence. He already had a criminal history so this isn't a case of 'he wasn't a criminal until the system made him one' and he'd already had a previous conviction for the same crime so it's unlikely this is case of the charges being false.

I'll be very clear, then.

You are victim-blaming.

Your sole purpose is to malign the character of a murder victim.

The only reason to do so is to suggest that his killer was justified. To whatever fraction of an extent.

You're impugning the character of a black man solely to defend the character of his white murderer.

I won't speak to your motives, but it sure damn looks like there's only one real motive for such a thing.

[Aurrora]

I'll be very clear, then.

You are victim-blaming.

Your sole purpose is to malign the character of a murder victim.

The only reason to do so is to suggest that his killer was justified. To whatever fraction of an extent.

You're impugning the character of a black man solely to defend the character of his white murderer.

I won't speak to your motives, but it sure damn looks like there's only one real motive for such a thing.

And once again you've gone off the rails with your racism.

There's no suggestion that his killing was justified, I'm just pulling the breaks on the train you're trying to get going of 'this dude was a serial victim of the system that turned him into a criminal'

- - - Updated - - -

Read the damn article:


So, who's the third person, and where's the money?

If that doesn't sound at least a little bit suspect...you need to get your ears checked.

Wouldn't a CI be left out of the official documentation? Do you really think he would have plead guilty to a crime he knew he didn't commit if there was no evidence against him?

[Kaleredar]

Read the damn article:


So, who's the third person, and where's the money?

If that doesn't sound at least a little bit suspect...you need to get your ears checked.

I think you're getting baited into burying the lede here, and I think it's important to stick to what's actually important. Trying to argue with someone saying that his death was a grey area and debating the merits of that only lends credence to the notion that there was any sort of grey area.

To wit, him having a criminal past is wholly irrelevant; the amount of force (lethal) being used on him was totally unjust. Full stop. That should be the beginning and end of any discussion about George Floyd's fatal interaction with the police.

Moreover, and similar to the Rodney King riots, this is about more than just one man. This is a reaction to years of police brutality and, frankly, a way for people to voice their opinions, condemnation and disdain about the current system of politics, one that goes up to and very much includes opinions, condemnation and disdain at the current leadership of the United States under the current president of the United States. George Floyd's death was the match that set off a powder keg.

To change gears a bit, protests are good. Art house hippy movements in the street are... attention-grabbing, at least. But all of this effort needs to not just fizzle out in a "we showed up on the streets, made some righteous noise, and then just kind of lost interest" like Occupy Wall Street did. And, thankfully, this movement does seem to be baring legislative fruit (the only kind of fruit that will matter worth a damn in five years time.) I genuinely hope that people will take this righteous indignation into November. Or all that fruit's going to be going away mighty fast, and probably wont be back for a while.

[Egomaniac]

Wouldn't a CI be left out of the official documentation? Do you really think he would have plead guilty to a crime he knew he didn't commit if there was no evidence against him?

The Case Records would have the CI. They wouldn't release that information public....but they keep records on Criminal Informants.

I wonder how many of those dozens of convictions that have already been dismissed because of this corrupt cops actions also had defendants that felt like they were forced to plead guilty.

- - - Updated - - -

I think you're getting baited into burying the lede here, and I think it's important to stick to what's actually important. Trying to argue with someone saying that his death was a grey area and debating the merits of that only lends credence to the notion that there was any sort of grey area.

Oh that's not what this is about at all. Even Aurrora admits that George Floyd's death was unjustifiable.

This is about whether or not Floyd's arrest and conviction back in 2004 were even valid. There's evidence to suggest that the cop who arrested him may have falsified some evidence. The cop is currently facing charges of murder for lying to get a warrant. There's already been dozens of convictions dismissed because this cop falsified evidence on those arrests.

[Kaleredar]

Oh that's not what this is about at all. Even Aurrora admits that George Floyd's death was unjustifiable.

This is about whether or not Floyd's arrest and conviction back in 2004 were even valid. There's evidence to suggest that the cop who arrested him may have falsified some evidence. The cop is currently facing charges of murder for lying to get a warrant. There's already been dozens of convictions dismissed because this cop falsified evidence on those arrests.

Again though, I think that's starting to dissolve the bedrock here.

It invites questions that aren't important. I've seen the facebook memes of "George Floyd was a *insert some number*-time convicted criminal" being used to try and disparage this whole thing.

Lots of people don't like acknowledging things like systemic racism and police brutality and corruption, and they'll look for any excuse they can give themselves to turn away and dismiss it as "well he was a criminal, these people are defending a criminal, all of these protests are just a sham." And then they roll in not only Floyd's death but also the criticisms of US leadership and of Trump into that as just being "noise made about the death of some criminal." I'm not for giving them any reason to just safely look away from this.

[Kasierith]

The meaningful take away for me is that once the justice system labels you as a malcontent, the burden of evidence and guilty beyond all reasonable doubt no longer apply. However it came to be, it demonstrated that officers saw George Floyd as a problem to be removed rather than a member of the community.

We see a similar problem with juvie. White suburb kids get community service because the assumption is they'll clean up and contribute to society. Black inner city kids are assumed to be screwed from the start, so might as well keep them off the streets for a few extra months to years right off.

[Zaktar]

I really struggle with what could have been done differently. Where do you think things could have happened differently - is it just that the cop should have just ate the tazer? Or does it go back further? Do they just let him sit there passed out in the Wendy's? Remember when he comes to he's probably driving drunk.

To me the issue goes so much deeper than the cops. The problem is, why do we have so many fucked up people in this country?

Don't train people to use lethal force when it isn't justified. Don't use aggressive tactics when dealing with an annoying, not dangerous situation. Don't shoot people in the back when they're running away.

- - - Updated - - -

why did the guy resist?

There are any number of reasons and none of them are relevant to the outcome. Resistance to authority is not justification for lethal force.

[Yuujin]

Seeing how the police have been acting for a very long time - take the whole "he resisted" excuse with a massive grain of salt. It wouldn't be the first time cops made up shit to protect themselves.

There's also no fucking reason to kill someone while they are running away. That's an act of complete cowardice.

You can only watch so many cellphone videos of cops using excessive force on victims while their partners yell "stop resisting!" as the person helplessly sits, stands, or lays there taking abuse, clearly not resisting, before you just begin to question the kinds of people that just take cops at their word.

[Egomaniac]

It invites questions that aren't important. I've seen the facebook memes of "George Floyd was a *insert some number*-time convicted criminal" being used to try and disparage this whole thing.

Again, not what it's about. These issues are very important. Maybe not specifically to what happened to George Floyd...but on the grander scale of how broken the system is. I mean, he is being charged with murder because he lied to obtain a warrant and 2 people were killed because of it. It's eerily similar to what happened to Breona Taylor. And during the investigation into that...it was discovered that he's falsified evidence in dozens of cases before that. And now it looks like he may have done the same thing to George Floyd back in 2004.

[I Push Buttons]

Looks like 'peaceful protesters' decided to burn down the Wendy's where that guy was shot after their security footage was released proving the guy aimed the taser at police.

https://twitter.com/SarahKallis/stat...80196418248708

[Gaidax]

Looks like 'peaceful protesters' decided to burn down the Wendy's where that guy was shot after their security footage was released proving the guy aimed the taser at police.

https://twitter.com/SarahKallis/stat...80196418248708

These are peaceful fires, nothing to worry about.

Not like there is a gas station literally next to it or something.

At some point arsonists need to be called arsonists and dealt with accordingly.

[I Push Buttons]

Atlanta Police also released the body cam footage from the altercation a few hours ago: