Another "I can't breath" death: Police Reform & Protests in the USA

[Elegiac]

1. Did I say that cops were in the right? Oh, but I did not, yet I fully expected an answer like this. So predicatable. Lemme guess, Endus and Edge gonna be the next ones?

Maybe don't post predictable copaganda, and don't get the same responses as the previous times?

2. Police are not nurses.

Indeed. Nurses are expected to be competent at their jobs and don't get excused with some thin blue line nonsense.

3. Follow the orders of police, argue afterwards when you get free. Somehow in Europe we don't get the police hate, so go lick your own boot or something.

Gee maybe it's because police as they exist in the US are explicitly set up to help perpetuate a system of white supremacy.

And don't pretend your shit don't stink hun cops in Europe have been the enemy of the working man since day one. Why do you think police aren't invited to IWW meetings?

[Lorgar Aurelian]

1. Did I say that cops were in the right? Oh, but I did not, yet I fully expected an answer like this. So predicatable. Lemme guess, Endus and Edge gonna be the next ones?
2. Police are not nurses.
3. Follow the orders of police, argue afterwards when you get free. Somehow in Europe we don't get the police hate, so go lick your own boot or something.

Police should be held to higher standers then nurses when it comes to handling people police who can’t meet those standards shouldn’t be police.

Following orders is no protection from shares and the massive accountability problem makes arguing after words a lost cause in most cases.

Europe and other places don’t have the same level if police hate as they have much higher standards for police and there is real accountability unlike America where police can and do get away with murder while also keeping there pensions.

[Endus]

It clearly shows him as someone incapable of following police orders. Drugs certainly did not help with that. Repeating "sorry" and crying does not mean you can ignore "hands on wheel".

He doesn't ignore those orders. I watched the whole thing until they dragged him back out of the police car and put him on the pavement. The only order he was hesitant about was getting into the back of the police car, and he was clearly expressing that he was claustrophobic and asking them for any other possible resolution; he volunteered to sit in the front seat of the police car, for instance. And he was getting into the car, he was just desperately trying to find any other possible outcome. That's not resisting an order.

Sorry he didn't lick the jackboots stepping on his neck well enough for you, apparently.

[Elegiac]

He's not a patient he's a criminal committing a felony.

He was a suspect who was under suspicion of being participant to a felony, since as a bouncer, he was a tipped employee and those are known to be the #1 method of getting fake currency into circulation.

And it's hilarious that you think we don't treat suspects or criminals in medicine, hun. We still don't get to lynch them for sass.

[Endus]

He's not a patient he's a criminal committing a felony.

You can fold that bullshit opinion until it's all sharp corners, and shove it where the sun don't shine.

Even if he had been using a counterfeit bill (which I have never seen backed up by any evidence), that does not make him a criminal. He could have received that bill thinking it was legitimate, himself. Simply using a counterfeit bill is not reasonable grounds for criminal charges, nor arrest.

[Elegiac]

You can fold that bullshit opinion until it's all sharp corners, and shove it where the sun don't shine.

Even if he had been using a counterfeit bill (which I have never seen backed up by any evidence), that does not make him a criminal. He could have received that bill thinking it was legitimate, himself. Simply using a counterfeit bill is not reasonable grounds for criminal charges, nor arrest.

Again:

as a bouncer, he was a tipped employee and those are known to be the #1 method of getting fake currency into circulation.

Why is this a known fact to a bitchy queer immigrant like myself but not to a "trained" officer of the law? Who knows.

[Endus]

Again:

Why is this apparently known to a bitchy queer immigrant like myself but not to a "trained" officer of the law? Who knows.

Yeah, I was just countering the idea that even if the call made to police was true, that the bill Floyd used was counterfeit, that would not justify calling the police nor would Floyd's use of that bill warrant arrest, let alone any use of physical force. Seizure of the bill, maybe, after they confirm it's fake. Possibly grounds for a search warrant for Floyd's wallet and home, maybe on the outside edge of things, to see if there's a stack of counterfeits there which would suggest he's party to the fraud rather than a victim. But arrest? Not unless they found such a stack.

This encounter went south the moment the officer pointed his weapon at Floyd. Everything from that point on was abuse.

The timestamp for that, in the video, is 22 seconds in, FWIW.

[Easo]

Maybe don't post predictable copaganda, and don't get the same responses as the previous times?

Indeed. Nurses are expected to be competent at their jobs and don't get excused with some thin blue line nonsense.

Gee maybe it's because police as they exist in the US are explicitly set up to help perpetuate a system of white supremacy.

And don't pretend your shit don't stink hun cops in Europe have been the enemy of the working man since day one. Why do you think police aren't invited to IWW meetings?

Copaganda? Thats a new one.
Ah yes, everything to do with race. As far as I remember the point was police brutality was universal, including white people too.

Enemy of working man? You are insane.

Police should be held to higher standers then nurses when it comes to handling people police who can’t meet those standards shouldn’t be police.

Following orders is no protection from shares and the massive accountability problem makes arguing after words a lost cause in most cases.

Europe and other places don’t have the same level if police hate as they have much higher standards for police and there is real accountability unlike America where police can and do get away with murder while also keeping there pensions.

Uhh, ok, yes? What is your point?

He doesn't ignore those orders. I watched the whole thing until they dragged him back out of the police car and put him on the pavement. The only order he was hesitant about was getting into the back of the police car, and he was clearly expressing that he was claustrophobic and asking them for any other possible resolution; he volunteered to sit in the front seat of the police car, for instance. And he was getting into the car, he was just desperately trying to find any other possible outcome. That's not resisting an order.

Sorry he didn't lick the jackboots stepping on his neck well enough for you, apparently.

Nah, he just constantly moves around instead of sitting still and talks unrelated nonsense. A disturbed individual for sure and thus police should have changed tactics after some time, yet again you are supposed to follow orders nonetheless and police has a right to detain you, including dragging you out of the car.
And specifically for you - no, sitting on the neck was not justified. Cuffing him? Yes, yes it fucking was.

Also, your obsession with bootlicking is ridiculous. As I said before - extremism. There is only your worldview that ACAB and nothing else matters, fingers in the ears, lalalaaa.

[Elegiac]

Yeah, I was just countering the idea that even if the call made to police was true, that the bill Floyd used was counterfeit, that would not justify calling the police nor would Floyd's use of that bill warrant arrest, let alone any use of physical force. Seizure of the bill, maybe, after they confirm it's fake. Possibly grounds for a search warrant for Floyd's wallet and home, maybe on the outside edge of things, to see if there's a stack of counterfeits there which would suggest he's party to the fraud rather than a victim. But arrest? Not unless they found such a stack.

This encounter went south the moment the officer pointed his weapon at Floyd. Everything from that point on was abuse.

The timestamp for that, in the video, is 22 seconds in, FWIW.

I mean why stop there, let's ask why a nonviolent offense merits a police response and not like...I dunno...a fine.

- - - Updated - - -

Copaganda? Thats a new one.

It's quite a well established concept.

Ah yes, everything to do with race. As far as I remember the point was police brutality was universal, including white people too.

European progressives say shit like this then act mystified why Bernie lost the primary.

Police brutality is universal but not proportional.

Enemy of working man? You are insane.

Not at all. As one redditor puts it:

Police are defenders of the ruling class and thus are the working class’ natural enemy. They infiltrate, disrupt, abuse, arrest, and imprison members of leftist or reformist movements. Thinking that you’re going to “win” members of the police over to anti-capitalist, revolutionary leftism is kinda delusional. The entire culture of the police force is virtually immune and hostile to these politics. Even if they weren’t, it is their job to enforce the anti-labor and anti-working class laws on the books whether they like it or not. It would be irresponsible and dangerous for a revolutionary union to allow membership to law enforcement.

They are explicitly set up to protect private property - I say private, not personal, because police are actually not required to protect personal property and are pretty garbage at following up offenses related to that (i.e. theft). What they are good at doing is ferreting out dissidents, breaking up demonstrations, or busting strikes.

Cops are not your friends, and when they act in your interests it is entirely incidental. Because, hun, you aren't a part of the club.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Uhh, ok, yes? What is your point?.

You can’t really be this slow right?

Following orders can still get you killed there are many examples.

Letting the police abuse you and trying to fight it after words is a lost cause when they can literally get away with murder and still get a pension.

A lack of accountability leads to an increase of distrust and hate.

It really can’t be dumbed down any further.

[Endus]

Nah, he just constantly moves around instead of sitting still and talks unrelated nonsense. A disturbed individual for sure and thus police should have changed tactics after some time, yet again you are supposed to follow orders nonetheless and police has a right to detain you, including dragging you out of the car.

He constantly moves around instead of sitting still. So what? I have ADHD. If I'm in a stressful situation, it's gonna be nearly impossible for me to sit still. And most of the "unrelated nonsense" was Floyd talking about how terrified he was, that he didn't want to get shot, that he had claustrophobia and wanted any option but the back seat of the cruiser, etc. It was pretty much all directly related.

Nothing about his conduct seemed "disturbed". Terrified the officer was going to kill him, yes. Which was, obviously, justified. Because that officer did murder him, minutes later.

"You are supposed to follow orders or cops can drag you out of the car and cuff you" is the fucking problem, mate. That's jackboot authoritarian fuckery. That's "pick up that can, citizen" levels of dystopian police brutality. Fuck that shit in the ear.

I've been briefly detained on suspicion of a chain of break-and-enter robberies. I wasn't even cuffed. There was no indication here that Floyd had even attempted to commit a crime; they had no grounds to pull weapons on him or detain him for anything.

And specifically for you - no, sitting on the neck was not justified. Cuffing him? Yes, yes it fucking was.

For not licking the boots of the officer abusing him quickly enough?

Because that's about the only thing you could argue Floyd did wrong, here.

Also, your obsession with bootlicking is ridiculous. As I said before - extremism. There is only your worldview that ACAB and nothing else matters, fingers in the ears, lalalaaa.

It's a common metaphor for blind abasement before authoritarianism.

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/bootlicking
https://www.thefreedictionary.com/bootlicking
https://www.lexico.com/definition/bootlicking

Heaven forbid I use a common English turn of phrase.

[wunksta]

He's not a patient he's a criminal committing a felony.

I'll just refer you back to your own post

Wow so I guess innocent until proven guilty is a thing of the past

[Easo]

Ehh, I am just gonna laugh at you all, when you will see that police "defunding" is not gonna fix anything.
It is almost as if you do not understand that a significant part of the population sees no issues with police in the first place or are just more or less racist, that they vote for people who enable it (read, people like Trump), that many others simply do not care enough.

Your house is burning down, but you are attempting to put the fire out by spraying the corner furthest away from it.
P.S.
And yes, Elegiac, you are insane. We really do not consider cops to be enemies in Europe, in general. Seems to be working well. Learn from others, maybe?

[wunksta]

It is almost as if you do not understand that a significant part of the population sees no issues with police in the first place

Why do you think only a certain part of the population has more problems with the police?

[unfilteredJW]

And yes, Elegiac, you are insane. We really do not consider cops to be enemies in Europe, in general. Seems to be working well. Learn from others, maybe?

We wish our cops would.

That's the fucking point.

[Endus]

Why do you think only a certain part of the population has more problems with the police?

Seems to have skipped over my own personal experience of being detained for a fairly serious crime (B&E), where I was not manhandled at all and not even cuffed. Of course, that was in Canada, and I'm basically white, so both of those probably played significant factors and I wouldn't remotely suggest otherwise. Just that my experience should be what's typical, and it's galling that it so clearly isn't for so many, essentially solely because of racism and a culture of police brutality.

If I'd been a black teenager in the USA, I could've died under those same circumstances. That's horrifying, to me. I cannot comprehend how it would not be, to anyone.

[Mayhem]

Ehh, I am just gonna laugh at you all, when you will see that police "defunding" is not gonna fix anything.
It is almost as if you do not understand that a significant part of the population sees no issues with police in the first place or are just more or less racist, that they vote for people who enable it (read, people like Trump), that many others simply do not care enough.

Your house is burning down, but you are attempting to put the fire out by spraying the corner furthest away from it.
P.S.
And yes, Elegiac, you are insane. We really do not consider cops to be enemies in Europe, in general. Seems to be working well. Learn from others, maybe?

Please don't try to speak for all of Europe.

It's not like European cops don't have racism problems themselves.

[wunksta]

Seems to have skipped over my own personal experience of being detained for a fairly serious crime (B&E), where I was not manhandled at all and not even cuffed. Of course, that was in Canada, and I'm basically white, so both of those probably played significant factors and I wouldn't remotely suggest otherwise. Just that my experience should be what's typical, and it's galling that it so clearly isn't for so many, essentially solely because of racism and a culture of police brutality.

Many books have been written, studies conducted and video evidence presented of clear differences in how police treat the black community. At this point, it's just willful ignorance.

[JohnBrown1917]

Please don't try to speak for all of Europe.

It's not like European cops don't have racism problems themselves.

Or treat the poor like shit.

[Shadowferal]

Ehh, I am just gonna laugh at you all, when you will see that police "defunding" is not gonna fix anything.

It won't happen anyway. Most radical "progressives" that were running for congress have been losing their primaries in favor of moderate dems.

It is almost as if you do not understand that a significant part of the population sees no issues with police in the first place...

Which reflects back to those voting in the primaries. Many of which weren't even close.
The laugh-out-loud part kicks in when that loudmouth radical "progressive" claims that the moderates owe them.

P.S.
And yes, Elegiac, you are insane.

Yeah..i don't pay the crazies any more attention...they are no better than many Trump supporters...