Another "I can't breath" death: Police Reform & Protests in the USA

[Kasierith]

How about you stop equivocating about what "really" killed him? It's legitimately disgusting.

Nah, I'm good. I'm happy approaching situations from "what went wrong, and how can we do better going forward." Educating police on common problems that can arise when you take someone into custody should be a priority. That you have an issue with this is honestly concerning. Do you care about this topic at all beyond the moral high ground you want to set up for yourself?

[Lorgar Aurelian]

You can throw around that generalist bullshit all you like, but can you actually provide statistic to back that up?

As I said - if actual force was used while you complied - take that both to the judge and the authorities with a proper complaint - there are plenty mechanics in place to track and correct that misbehavior from the police force side.

How about you show me the data that shows complying with police commands removes 100% of police brutality. You made the claim back it up, I can refute it Several times over without needing to find stats.

And no there are no mechanics to correct misbehaviour as officers can get over 100 complaints and still not be punished.

[Belize]

You genuinely have the process where you can fill the complaint and push it forward until justice is done, you can do this just fine after the event given you actually have a credible claim there.

Oh yes, like how the murderer had 20+ complaints against him, and only 1 resulted in a week suspension. And how across the country there many more stories of officers having dozens of complaints and the system simply turning a blind eye.

Very good system.

[Gaidax]

Oh look, more generalization and strawmen.

I'm sorry that reality doesn't fit your narrative and that you need to invent one.

I say things as they are, the few people who come here and say that one sensible thing - "comply with police officer's orders" get picked up and torn to pieces with often childish arguments like "look in this case it did not work out, so apparently complying is useless."

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How about you show me the data that shows complying with police commands removes 100% of police brutality. You made the claim back it up, I can refute it Several times over without needing to find stats.

And no there are no mechanics to correct misbehaviour as officers can get over 100 complaints and still not be punished.

That is not how it works cupcake - you made the wild claim - you bring the proof.

Let's see those "countless" cases. Let's see some data on that, shall we?

[Belize]

I say things as they are, the few people who come here and say that one sensible thing - "comply with police officer's orders" get picked up and torn to pieces with often childish arguments like "look in this case it did not work out, so apparently complying is useless."

Ok, the how do you explain George Floyd being murdered, despite complying with orders?

[Kasierith]

No there wasn't because this whole thread is a giant circle-jerk echo chamber of "fuck the police", where people jump out of their skin to spread half-truths, hearsay and outright bull.

You genuinely have the process where you can fill the complaint and push it forward until justice is done, you can do this just fine after the event given you actually have a credible claim there.

I'm sure that most in this thread would say that I'm part of a fuck the police echo chamber to be absolutely laughable, so take that in mind when I point out that accountability for police is minimal at best. This guy had an extensive history with excessive force and other nasty incidents, 17 total the last I checked with one active case, but he was put in charge of training new officers and teaching them how to interact with their communities. Where's the accountability in that?

[Gaidax]

Oh yes, like how the murderer had 20+ complaints against him, and only 1 resulted in a week suspension. And how across the country there many more stories of officers having dozens of complaints and the system simply turning a blind eye.

Very good system.

In which case, buddy - the reform that everyone agrees on should be targeted there.

It does not change the fact that you have to comply with the order, it's that simple.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

When they just add another black death, regardless of reasons or how violent the person was, to their 'cause' yeah I guess I don't...

The reason he was added was because he was a victim of police brutality his past is irrelevant to that it had no barring at all to him being murdered by the police which is the whole point of the movement.

So ya you miss the absolutely obvious point of the movement to the point that it’s rather sad.

[Belize]

In which case, buddy - the reform that everyone agrees on should be targeted there.

It does not change the fact that you have to comply with the order, it's that simple.

No. If the order is not legal you do not have to comply .

If an officer shows up at your door without a warrant, you can tell him to piss off. This isn't hard to understand.

[Gaidax]

I'm sure that most in this thread would say that I'm part of a fuck the police echo chamber to be absolutely laughable, so take that in mind when I point out that accountability for police is minimal at best. This guy had an extensive history with excessive force and other nasty incidents, 17 total the last I checked with one active case, but he was put in charge of training new officers and teaching them how to interact with their communities. Where's the accountability in that?

And that's absolutely fine to point that out. Nobody in their right mind is saying that whatever happened is "fine" or that there should not be a reform because everything is "a okay".

But from there to starting to push this whole line of complying to police officer orders being up for discussion is a looooong way, buddy.

[Inuyaki]

In which case, buddy - the reform that everyone agrees on should be targeted there.

It does not change the fact that you have to comply with the order, it's that simple.

First, you still only have to comply with lawful orders.
Second, THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT THE PROTEST IS ABOUT! WTF

[Edge-]

You genuinely have the process where you can fill the complaint and push it forward until justice is done, you can do this just fine after the event given you actually have a credible claim there.

Alright, Chauvin had what, 18 reports against him?

https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/28/us/mi...oyd/index.html

Only two of the 18 complaints against Chauvin were "closed with discipline," according to a MPD internal affairs public summary. In both cases, the "discipline issued" column indicated that a letter of reprimand had been issued in response.

So why was an officer who was so routinely complained about, and only twice reprimanded via a fucking letter, still working the streets?

If I had 1 complaint about my behavior from a coworker I'd be on thin ice, and a second would get my ass fired. And I'm not a fuckin cop.

[The Scourge of Azuremyst]

Do you honestly think that I, as a conservatively dressed white man, would be thrown to the ground

That's the point, you shouldn't be dressed like a thug if you want to be treated humanely.

[Belize]

That's the point, you shouldn't be dressed like a thug if you want to be treated humanely.

Oh jesus, that's some blatant racism if I've ever seen any.

[Edge-]

But from there to starting to push this whole line of complying to police officer orders being up for discussion is a looooong way, buddy.

Because police do not have ultimate authority and we do not have to comply with requests that do not legally compel us to.

Again, this isn't some sovereign citizen shit, but you're literally here, unironically arguing that people should blindly and unquestioningly abide by all the orders of an officer. With the implication that if they don't, that an officer is justified in his or her use of force, as that's kinda the topic of the thread.

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That's the point, you shouldn't be dressed like a thug if you want to be treated humanely.

How does a thug dress, exactly? Why does ones attire determine how they should be treated?

Shouldn't you treat humans, humanely?

[Gaidax]

Alright, Chauvin had what, 18 reports against him?

https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/28/us/mi...oyd/index.html



So why was an officer who was so routinely complained about, and only twice reprimanded via a fucking letter, still working the streets?

If I had 1 complaint about my behavior from a coworker I'd be on thin ice, and a second would get my ass fired. And I'm not a fuckin cop.

And it's completely fair to ask these questions and make corrections and reforms to that process.

Not arguing that in the slightest.

What I am against is this whole cancer culture of resistance glorification even in things where there is no place for it, namely police officer orders. And no, don't be daft, I'm not saying that if police officer asks you to traffic a pound of cocaine you rush to comply, but if you are pulled over for a traffic ticket or are asked to pull over - you do your best to comply, there are no "ifs" and "maybes" there.

[The Scourge of Azuremyst]

So why was an officer who was so routinely complained about, and only twice reprimanded via a fucking letter, still working the streets?

If I had 1 complaint about my behavior from a coworker I'd be on thin ice, and a second would get my ass fired. And I'm not a fuckin cop.

Never heard about the tendency of ppl abusing the system to "settle a score"? Ppl reported others to the authorities for violating the lockdown rules just to settle scores.

[Kathandira]

That's the point, you shouldn't be dressed like a thug if you want to be treated humanely.

Victim blaming. Cute.

[Thekri]

That's the point, you shouldn't be dressed like a thug if you want to be treated humanely.

In other words, I shouldn't be black and dressed that way? I mean you pretty much nailed it, that is the goddamn point. Middle-Class white people should be treated differently then poor black people, and if they want to not get murdered, they should start wearing Khakis and Polo Shirts and shopping at Whole foods, because that is the best way to stop the police from murdering them.

I mean at least you don't try to disguise your racism here.

[The Scourge of Azuremyst]

How does a thug dress, exactly? Why does ones attire determine how they should be treated?

Shouldn't you treat humans, humanely?

Not if they're thugs from the ghetto, they never have white sheets.