If you could choose one ability to take off the GCD what would it be?
I start: Blade Flurry
If you could choose one ability to take off the GCD what would it be?
I start: Blade Flurry
toxic blade/shiv
they aren't the worst but assassination doesn't really have too bad a time with the GCD
Blade Flurry should 100% be off the gcd, them giving it the initial damage is just a bandaid fix in SL
Vendetta I kinda got used to, but most of all crimson vial. It's annoying when you have to press it and need to wait to come off the GCD. It's a defensive, might as well treat it just like Evasion or the Cloak.
All setup buttons should be off the GCD, Vendetta, Blade flurry and the like. Buttons that do nothing but augment your other abilities should not be on GCD, simply because that GCD takes away from the precious seconds that that ability is up for.
Crimson vial I am mostly annoyed by because of PvP. Sometimes I just need to press it straight away, not one second later, and if it happens while being offensive it also takes away from doing damage. Just my two cents.
I'm impressed, tbh. What would it take for you to extend your newfound sense of empathy for PvPers towards the fact that all Legion/post-Legion Rogue design has been an utter disaster for Rogue PvP?
On topic, aside from the obvious ones like Vanish, for Subtlety it's important that Dance, Step, MfD, and Premed (which should return of course) remain off the GCD.
I use a lot of macros like,
And,#showtooltip
/cast [mod:ctrl, target=focus] shadowstep
/cast [mod:shift, target=focus] marked for death
/cast [target=focus] kidney shot
And even simpler ones like,#showtooltip
/cast [mod:ctrl, target=focus] shadowstep
/cast [mod:shift] shadow dance
/cast [target=focus] sap
So it's of course incredibly annoying when Blizzard gets it in their head that they should start adding abilities to the GCD and breaking this functionality.#showtooltip
/cast [mod:shift] premeditation
/cast slice and dice
For example in Legion development there was a period where they actually tried to put Dance on the GCD if you can believe it. It's one of dozens of things that made me say, "yep, these inept fools really don't have any kind of basic understanding of this spec". Luckily they seem to have learned from the vehement backlash (in one isolated case) and didn't try it again during the great BfA GCD debacle.
Subtlety Rogue was an amazing, incredible, unique, and fun spec prior to Legion and BfA
“All opinions are not equal. Some are a very great deal more robust, sophisticated and well supported in logic and argument than others.”
― Douglas Adams
It remains interesting to me that you think "Subtlety has been a masterpiece of a PvP spec for over a decade, so PvE improvements should have been done in a way that doesn't ruin the PvP playstyle" is somehow treating PvE players as second class citizens. That's always been my core argument, and it gets very old when you continue to misrepresent that.
As far as condescending tone goes, that's rich also. You're no angel.
At any rate, this doesn't have to be about me personally. There are a lot of folks who agree with me, particularly when you stop off this forum which tends to attract more of the PvE crowd to begin with. Go look on the official WoW Rogue forums and you'll see many posts like this one: https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wo...nges/531892/29 [that particular poster, Res, is a 10x Gladiator Rogue who argues frequently on that forum that Subtlety should be rolled back to how it was before Legion]
The position which I happen to hold also happens to be the majority position over there. So if you don't like me personally, fine, whatever, but please extend your empathy to other PvP Rogues who aren't me.
Last edited by shoegazing; 2020-05-29 at 03:52 PM.
Subtlety Rogue was an amazing, incredible, unique, and fun spec prior to Legion and BfA
“All opinions are not equal. Some are a very great deal more robust, sophisticated and well supported in logic and argument than others.”
― Douglas Adams
It's a two way street. I show respect towards players with different preferences when they extend the same courtesy. I've had very productive and respectful conversations with those who disagree and have a different preference, for example: https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wo...dback/497027/3
But, when PvE elitists start up that whole conversation about "PvP is a minigame, all 36 specs should be given a PvE-first design regardless of the PvP history of that spec" I'm not going to pull punches in pointing out how stupid that position is
I posted a lot about the topic of the thread, Kaver just chose to respond to only one part of my post.
Subtlety Rogue was an amazing, incredible, unique, and fun spec prior to Legion and BfA
“All opinions are not equal. Some are a very great deal more robust, sophisticated and well supported in logic and argument than others.”
― Douglas Adams
No you don't. If people in here express any love towards post-WOD Subtlety you are always being very condenscending and sarcastic towards them in a very nasty way. Even if it's the first time they post and never done anything to you. I see it all the time.
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But why did you even include that part. It was completely unprovoked. There was no reason to start the conversation that way.
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I actually agrees with this 100 %. But you should also consider doing the same thing when it comes to threads in here. I completely understand that you want to argue for your prefered version of Subtlety, but you can do it in a way that doesn't ruin every rogue thread in here by derailing the topics. You're being so disrespectful by always doing that.
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I do. But you could also extend the same empathy by not making every thread in here about subtlety. You don't have to derail every topic. If you were more respectful about it, I would be on your side. But since you're being condescending most of the time it's hard to be in your corner.
You can review my post history here: https://www.mmo-champion.com/search....d=64685131&pp=
In my 998 (well, now 999) posts that I've made on this forum, I couldn't find any that fit what you are describing. I'm not a perfect person and I'm sure I've made some mistakes over the years, but I went back several pages/months through my post history and couldn't find any examples of what you are describing.
I would request that you please cite some examples of what you are describing, otherwise stop slandering me.
Now, with that said, I DO believe that the feedback of a Legion reroller should be weighted less than the feedback of someone who has played the spec for a decade or more. But I have also made proposals that would allow for both groups to be happy, for example, if the new shadow magic class fantasy was implemented as optional cosmetic glyphs and talents instead of forced on all Subtlety Rogues including those of us who want nothing to do with it. BUT, if Blizzard is unwilling to do that and it needs to be either/or then I'm going to side with the people who have played the spec for much longer and have much more time and emotional energy invested into their character.
Last edited by shoegazing; 2020-05-29 at 05:47 PM.
Subtlety Rogue was an amazing, incredible, unique, and fun spec prior to Legion and BfA
“All opinions are not equal. Some are a very great deal more robust, sophisticated and well supported in logic and argument than others.”
― Douglas Adams
“Choose a job you love and you'll never have to work a day in your life” “Logic will get you from A to Z; Imagination will get you everywhere.”
AR and BF were on the GCD since the very beginning. What is different now that requires that kind of change?
With AR in particular, you shouldn't want to press this button when your energy bar is near full to begin with, so I don't see a downside to having it on remain on the GCD like it always has been. If a player overcaps on energy due to waiting on a GCD after pressing AR with a full or near-full energy bar, that sounds like poor planning and execution on the part of that player. What am I missing here?
Subtlety Rogue was an amazing, incredible, unique, and fun spec prior to Legion and BfA
“All opinions are not equal. Some are a very great deal more robust, sophisticated and well supported in logic and argument than others.”
― Douglas Adams
Blade Flurry x69 it feels so WRONG since the GCD took place. Totally ruins the flow of combat but also just messes with the rpg fantasy of switching to multiple enemies whilst swashbuckling about on the fly. What am I taking a deep breath in the middle of combat while people are attacking from all sides?
It's pronounced "Dur-av-ian."
Personally, I'm less about taking things off the GCD and more reducing the GCD.
Given the nature of energy you're not really losing on a resource you'll then spend.
However, you're losing on energy generated within the accelerated regen window, so it kind of makes sense that if you're about to go high octane being artificially slowed due to activation of AR feels bad.
I'm curious though: do you really feel the need for Premed in a game where MfD exists? Wouldn't you rather have MfD become baseline?