Off the GCD?

[Kaver]

If you could choose one ability to take off the GCD what would it be?

I start: Blade Flurry

[Jibbler]

toxic blade/shiv
they aren't the worst but assassination doesn't really have too bad a time with the GCD

Blade Flurry should 100% be off the gcd, them giving it the initial damage is just a bandaid fix in SL

[Arsen]

Vendetta I kinda got used to, but most of all crimson vial. It's annoying when you have to press it and need to wait to come off the GCD. It's a defensive, might as well treat it just like Evasion or the Cloak.

[Kaver]

Vendetta I kinda got used to, but most of all crimson vial. It's annoying when you have to press it and need to wait to come off the GCD. It's a defensive, might as well treat it just like Evasion or the Cloak.

Personally I don't have a big issue with Crimson Vial. It would be nice to have off the GCD but for me it's not a necessity like I feel Blade Flurry is.

[Arsen]

All setup buttons should be off the GCD, Vendetta, Blade flurry and the like. Buttons that do nothing but augment your other abilities should not be on GCD, simply because that GCD takes away from the precious seconds that that ability is up for.
Crimson vial I am mostly annoyed by because of PvP. Sometimes I just need to press it straight away, not one second later, and if it happens while being offensive it also takes away from doing damage. Just my two cents.

[Kaver]

All setup buttons should be off the GCD, Vendetta, Blade flurry and the like. Buttons that do nothing but augment your other abilities should not be on GCD, simply because that GCD takes away from the precious seconds that that ability is up for.

I agree. But we probably cannot be too "greedy".

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Crimson vial I am mostly annoyed by because of PvP. Sometimes I just need to press it straight away, not one second later, and if it happens while being offensive it also takes away from doing damage. Just my two cents.

I get that. I don't really PvP so I have no idea how annoying that feels. But I believe you.

[shoegazing]

I don't really PvP so I have no idea how annoying that feels. But I believe you.

I'm impressed, tbh. What would it take for you to extend your newfound sense of empathy for PvPers towards the fact that all Legion/post-Legion Rogue design has been an utter disaster for Rogue PvP?

On topic, aside from the obvious ones like Vanish, for Subtlety it's important that Dance, Step, MfD, and Premed (which should return of course) remain off the GCD.

I use a lot of macros like,

#showtooltip
/cast [mod:ctrl, target=focus] shadowstep
/cast [mod:shift, target=focus] marked for death
/cast [target=focus] kidney shot

And,

#showtooltip
/cast [mod:ctrl, target=focus] shadowstep
/cast [mod:shift] shadow dance
/cast [target=focus] sap

And even simpler ones like,

#showtooltip
/cast [mod:shift] premeditation
/cast slice and dice

So it's of course incredibly annoying when Blizzard gets it in their head that they should start adding abilities to the GCD and breaking this functionality.

For example in Legion development there was a period where they actually tried to put Dance on the GCD if you can believe it. It's one of dozens of things that made me say, "yep, these inept fools really don't have any kind of basic understanding of this spec". Luckily they seem to have learned from the vehement backlash (in one isolated case) and didn't try it again during the great BfA GCD debacle.

[Kaver]

I'm impressed, tbh. What would it take for you to extend your newfound sense of empathy for PvPers towards the fact that all Legion/post-Legion Rogue design has been an utter disaster for Rogue PvP?

On topic, aside from the obvious ones like Vanish, for Subtlety it's important that Dance, Step, MfD, and Premed (which should return of course) remain off the GCD.

I use a lot of macros like,



And,



And even simpler ones like,



So it's of course incredibly annoying when Blizzard gets it in their head that they should start adding abilities to the GCD and breaking this functionality.

For example in Legion development there was a period where they actually tried to put Dance on the GCD if you can believe it. It's one of dozens of things that made me say, "yep, these inept fools really don't have any kind of basic understanding of this spec". Luckily they seem to have learned from the vehement backlash (in one isolated case) and didn't try it again during the great BfA GCD debacle.

I’m not very motivated to have empathy towards someone who is always condescending when they address other people and treat them like they are second class citizens. I know a lot of people here feel the same way.

[shoegazing]

I’m not very motivated to have empathy towards someone who is always condescending when they address other people and treat them like they are second class citizens. I know a lot of people here feel the same way.

It remains interesting to me that you think "Subtlety has been a masterpiece of a PvP spec for over a decade, so PvE improvements should have been done in a way that doesn't ruin the PvP playstyle" is somehow treating PvE players as second class citizens. That's always been my core argument, and it gets very old when you continue to misrepresent that.

As far as condescending tone goes, that's rich also. You're no angel.

At any rate, this doesn't have to be about me personally. There are a lot of folks who agree with me, particularly when you stop off this forum which tends to attract more of the PvE crowd to begin with. Go look on the official WoW Rogue forums and you'll see many posts like this one: https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wo...nges/531892/29 [that particular poster, Res, is a 10x Gladiator Rogue who argues frequently on that forum that Subtlety should be rolled back to how it was before Legion]

The position which I happen to hold also happens to be the majority position over there. So if you don't like me personally, fine, whatever, but please extend your empathy to other PvP Rogues who aren't me.

[Kaver]

It remains interesting to me that you think "Subtlety has been a masterpiece of a PvP spec for over a decade, so PvE improvements should have been done in a way that doesn't ruin the PvP playstyle" is somehow treating PvE players as second class citizens. That's always been my core argument, and it gets very old when you continue to misrepresent that.

As far as condescending tone goes, that's rich also.

So you're saying that you never present that argument in a condescending way towards people who liked the Legion version of Subtlety?

[Calfredd]

So you're saying that you never present that argument in a condescending way towards people who liked the Legion version of Subtlety?

I would just ignore them to keep the thread on track.

[shoegazing]

So you're saying that you never present that argument in a condescending way towards people who liked the Legion version of Subtlety?

It's a two way street. I show respect towards players with different preferences when they extend the same courtesy. I've had very productive and respectful conversations with those who disagree and have a different preference, for example: https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wo...dback/497027/3

But, when PvE elitists start up that whole conversation about "PvP is a minigame, all 36 specs should be given a PvE-first design regardless of the PvP history of that spec" I'm not going to pull punches in pointing out how stupid that position is

I would just ignore them to keep the thread on track.

I posted a lot about the topic of the thread, Kaver just chose to respond to only one part of my post.

[Kaver]

I show respect towards players with different preferences when they extend the same courtesy.

No you don't. If people in here express any love towards post-WOD Subtlety you are always being very condenscending and sarcastic towards them in a very nasty way. Even if it's the first time they post and never done anything to you. I see it all the time.

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Kaver just chose to respond to only one part of my post.

But why did you even include that part. It was completely unprovoked. There was no reason to start the conversation that way.

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so PvE improvements should have been done in a way that doesn't ruin the PvP playstyle

I actually agrees with this 100 %. But you should also consider doing the same thing when it comes to threads in here. I completely understand that you want to argue for your prefered version of Subtlety, but you can do it in a way that doesn't ruin every rogue thread in here by derailing the topics. You're being so disrespectful by always doing that.

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but please extend your empathy to other PvP Rogues who aren't me.

I do. But you could also extend the same empathy by not making every thread in here about subtlety. You don't have to derail every topic. If you were more respectful about it, I would be on your side. But since you're being condescending most of the time it's hard to be in your corner.

[shoegazing]

No you don't. If people in here express any love towards post-WOD Subtlety you are always being very condenscending and sarcastic towards them in a very nasty way. Even if it's the first time they post and never done anything to you. I see it all the time.

You can review my post history here: https://www.mmo-champion.com/search....d=64685131&pp=

In my 998 (well, now 999) posts that I've made on this forum, I couldn't find any that fit what you are describing. I'm not a perfect person and I'm sure I've made some mistakes over the years, but I went back several pages/months through my post history and couldn't find any examples of what you are describing.

I would request that you please cite some examples of what you are describing, otherwise stop slandering me.

Now, with that said, I DO believe that the feedback of a Legion reroller should be weighted less than the feedback of someone who has played the spec for a decade or more. But I have also made proposals that would allow for both groups to be happy, for example, if the new shadow magic class fantasy was implemented as optional cosmetic glyphs and talents instead of forced on all Subtlety Rogues including those of us who want nothing to do with it. BUT, if Blizzard is unwilling to do that and it needs to be either/or then I'm going to side with the people who have played the spec for much longer and have much more time and emotional energy invested into their character.

[exsanguinate]

definetly AR

[Naiattavain]

this is a bait thread. wow there absolutely no rep from blizzard at all on rogues..

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You can review my post history here: https://www.mmo-champion.com/search....d=64685131&pp=

In my 998 (well, now 999) posts that I've made on this forum, I couldn't find any that fit what you are describing. I'm not a perfect person and I'm sure I've made some mistakes over the years, but I went back several pages/months through my post history and couldn't find any examples of what you are describing.

I would request that you please cite some examples of what you are describing, otherwise admit that you are full of it and stop slandering me.

Now, with that said, I DO believe that the feedback of a Legion reroller should be weighted less than the feedback of someone who has played the spec for a decade or more. But I have also made proposals that would allow for both groups to be happy, for example, if the new shadow magic class fantasy was implemented as optional cosmetic glyphs and talents instead of forced on all Subtlety Rogues including those of us who want nothing to do with it. BUT, if Blizzard is unwilling to do that and it needs to be either/or then I'm going to side with the people who have played the spec for much longer and have much more time and emotional energy invested into their character.

join the club. theirs only few of us left.

[shoegazing]

definetly AR

AR and BF were on the GCD since the very beginning. What is different now that requires that kind of change?

With AR in particular, you shouldn't want to press this button when your energy bar is near full to begin with, so I don't see a downside to having it on remain on the GCD like it always has been. If a player overcaps on energy due to waiting on a GCD after pressing AR with a full or near-full energy bar, that sounds like poor planning and execution on the part of that player. What am I missing here?

[Duravian]

If you could choose one ability to take off the GCD what would it be?

I start: Blade Flurry

Blade Flurry x69 it feels so WRONG since the GCD took place. Totally ruins the flow of combat but also just messes with the rpg fantasy of switching to multiple enemies whilst swashbuckling about on the fly. What am I taking a deep breath in the middle of combat while people are attacking from all sides?

[BeepBoo]

Personally, I'm less about taking things off the GCD and more reducing the GCD.

[Jackstraw]

AR and BF were on the GCD since the very beginning. What is different now that requires that kind of change?

With AR in particular, you shouldn't want to press this button when your energy bar is near full to begin with, so I don't see a downside to having it on remain on the GCD like it always has been. If a player overcaps on energy due to waiting on a GCD after pressing AR with a full or near-full energy bar, that sounds like poor planning and execution on the part of that player. What am I missing here?

Given the nature of energy you're not really losing on a resource you'll then spend.

However, you're losing on energy generated within the accelerated regen window, so it kind of makes sense that if you're about to go high octane being artificially slowed due to activation of AR feels bad.

I'm curious though: do you really feel the need for Premed in a game where MfD exists? Wouldn't you rather have MfD become baseline?