Got booted. Am I the bad guy?

[Snowfunk]

What a bunch of pricks.

You we're in 100% right to keep it.

[SirCowdog]

They're trying to be absolutists.

Personally, I do think the raid leader had the technical right and power to kick him or anyone for any reason. But I would also look down on the raid leader for it.

Exactly this.

Yeah, the RL has the power to boot or invite whoever. But that doesn't absolve the RL from being a turd for using that power to try and coerce people out of their drops.

[Saltysquidoon]

They're trying to be absolutists.

Personally, I do think the raid leader had the technical right and power to kick him or anyone for any reason. But I would also look down on the raid leader for it.

Absolutely I agree. The RL can technically kick anyone for any reason at any time but if they did it for no reason it would be a dick move. I'm more interested in why people are posting it clearly knowing that context but ignoring it. Baiting for replies? Trying to seem 'fair'?

In a pug, if you loot it you can do whatever you want with it. They can kick you for it as well, that's their choice. Would be different in a guild group, but clearly that's not what this is about.

Do you honestly really believe that though? I mean that seriously.
What if I kicked you from a raid after we downed the first boss and while people drinking after clearing trash before the second? Would your response just be "I accept this because the virtual simulation i am participating in technically allows the RL to do whatever they like" or would you think less of me? What if I kicked every lefthanded person in the raid? What If I kicked the best player purely due to jealousy?

This is what interests me at what point for you does technical power give way to social acceptability.

[CerealLord]

What If I kicked the best player purely due to jealousy?

I've seen this happen and yes, the guild died (was a guildie who was kicked by RL).

Ahh, good times.

[NatePsy]

Personal Loot is "Personal" in that it's your loot and yours alone to do what you like with it. I ask people for stuff in raids I do on alts but I don't completely expect them to hand it over as it's their loot that they won through RNG.

[Laqweeta]

I don't think you're wrong. I would've told him.. "I'm sorry that you're upset, blame blizzard for increase time played metrics by locking Azerite Gear behind raids only and M0s only, and then hoping for it in a weekly chest if you do M+"

[Niwes]

/cheesus
/10c

[xenogear3]

How do these MMOs deal with trolls, AFKs and toxic people?

Vote to kick people in FF14.
You can only loot one gear in the entire run. (This avoids people give all gear to beef up a tank, or multiple alt run to beef up the main.)
You get something similar to Badge of Justice by killing a boss. Then turn these badges in for gear.

WoW loot system is old and obsolete.
Blizzard knows it. It just doesn't want to admit, or just wants to waste players' time and collect $15.

[DechCJC]

Do you honestly really believe that though? I mean that seriously.
What if I kicked you from a raid after we downed the first boss and while people drinking after clearing trash before the second? Would your response just be "I accept this because the virtual simulation i am participating in technically allows the RL to do whatever they like" or would you think less of me? What if I kicked every lefthanded person in the raid? What If I kicked the best player purely due to jealousy?

This is what interests me at what point for you does technical power give way to social acceptability.

I do agree with the OP in this instance, but...

Would it have been a dick move for the OP to instead keep an item because they were "Saving up money for the Brutosaur mount" and needed the gold?

There's a plethora of players here that agree that your loot is yours, regardless of what you do with it; But how the hell is the above statement any less scummy than kicking someone because you don't like them or because you want your friend in the raid? I disagree with both scenarios, but if we're going to say one is ok then the other is too.

[Zantera]

Vote to kick people in FF14.
You can only loot one gear in the entire run. (This avoids people give all gear to beef up a tank, or multiple alt run to beef up the main.)
You get something similar to Badge of Justice by killing a boss. Then turn these badges in for gear.

WoW loot system is old and obsolete.
Blizzard knows it. It just doesn't want to admit, or just wants to waste players' time and collect $15.

WoW loot system sounds a lot better than the FF14 loot system though :/

[SirCowdog]

Do you honestly really believe that though? I mean that seriously.
What if I kicked you from a raid after we downed the first boss and while people drinking after clearing trash before the second? Would your response just be "I accept this because the virtual simulation i am participating in technically allows the RL to do whatever they like" or would you think less of me? What if I kicked every lefthanded person in the raid? What If I kicked the best player purely due to jealousy?

This is what interests me at what point for you does technical power give way to social acceptability.

Seems to me that the reasonable response would be to ask why I was kicked. And then if no answer, or some unsatisfactory answer is given, you mark down the name and just don't join raids or groups run by that person after that.

You can't control what other people do, generally; only respond to it. You can choose to kick up a stink and get mad and try to spam or flame into trade channel I guess. Or you can just drop an ignore on the guy and go back to having fun playing the game. :/

[Tradu]

Do you honestly really believe that though? I mean that seriously.
What if I kicked you from a raid after we downed the first boss and while people drinking after clearing trash before the second? Would your response just be "I accept this because the virtual simulation i am participating in technically allows the RL to do whatever they like" or would you think less of me? What if I kicked every lefthanded person in the raid? What If I kicked the best player purely due to jealousy?

This is what interests me at what point for you does technical power give way to social acceptability.

It's a pug on a difficulty with flexible lockouts. Kick whoever you want. Would I be annoyed? Absolutely, but it is what it is.

[cuafpr]

its a bit selfish but you also don't know if that hunter was an alt or main or what... Thus its your loot your choice. The flip side it was their raid and their choice. brush it off and move on

[Jotaux]

Debates like this are why personal loot exists. It's your loot, you earned it, you get to choose what to do with it. Would it have been nice to give it to the hunter? Sure. But ultimately it's your gear. You don't have any responsibility to give it to him.
I also don't entirely blame the guy for kicking you though. He was doing the raid to try to gear his friend, and you stood in the way of that when you could have helped. I can see why he'd want people who are more receptive to his preferred way of doing things.
Nobody's entirely in the wrong here.

I disagree, personal loot is the reason this debate exists not the other way around.

[xenogear3]

Do you honestly really believe that though? I mean that seriously.
What if I kicked you from a raid after we downed the first boss and while people drinking after clearing trash before the second? Would your response just be "I accept this because the virtual simulation i am participating in technically allows the RL to do whatever they like" or would you think less of me? What if I kicked every lefthanded person in the raid? What If I kicked the best player purely due to jealousy?

LoL, this is because WoW players have been "educated" or "brainwashed"

In China, when an Emperor or Chairman Mao wants to kill you, you thank him for not killing your family.
In the future, your family can still ask the Emperor for help. No hard feelings.
That is how the system works !

The PUG is dead when the LFR first comes out.
Blizzard has to nerf the LFR gear to save the PUG raid.
The point is that if there is a better system, people would avoid PUG like plague.
Because there is no such system, people "accept" it.

[Daan]

That's why I mostly don't loot any bosses. The postmaster will bring it to me. The last time I looted an item I instantly got a whisper from someone. It seems that he used an addon for automatic whispers after looting. Outrageous.

[Amarys]

Debates like this are why personal loot exists. It's your loot, you earned it, you get to choose what to do with it. Would it have been nice to give it to the hunter? Sure. But ultimately it's your gear. You don't have any responsibility to give it to him.
I also don't entirely blame the guy for kicking you though. He was doing the raid to try to gear his friend, and you stood in the way of that when you could have helped. I can see why he'd want people who are more receptive to his preferred way of doing things.
Nobody's entirely in the wrong here.

I disagree somewhat. It wouldn't have been nice to give it to the hunter. If the OP wanted to be nice, he should have rolled it out and excluded the hunter from rolling. Rewarding loud, obnoxious, rude people isn't a nice thing, teaching them a lesson is.

Also yes RL was was in the wrong. If he had stated the loot rules .. then sure but he didn't. OP is only guilty of underestimating the stupidity and entitlement of randoms. Again when puging it's best to just loot the items from mail after the raid.

[xenogear3]

PUG is bad for your health.

At least, PUG keeps the repair bot and blacksmith in business since 2005, even during recession 2008 and 2020 !

[Super Kami Dende]

People who insist you share or give gear that they want when it isn't previously an established agreement are childish assholes are you are in no way in the wrong.

- - - Updated - - -

Nobody's entirely in the wrong here.

Yes, the Group leader was. Kicking someone because they don't give your friend loot makes them a wrong asshole.

[Amarys]

In China, when an Emperor or Chairman Mao wants to kill you, you thank him for not killing your family.
In the future, your family can still ask the Emperor for help. No hard feelings.
That is how the system works !

Who is really brainwashed here? In the west, if the "emperor" tried to pull stunts like that too much, the people just brought pitchforks and torches resulting in the emperor ending up in multiple pieces.

The same applies to WoW. There is no shortage of PuGs and those leaders need competent raiders more than competent raiders need those leaders. You can just put them on ignore and friend good, fair leaders.