"Forced" or "Mandatory" covenants

[Fkiolaris]

Im not looking forward to Covenants, at all. Why? Covenants are 5 separate, choices all rolled into a single choice. Ive always played classes based on different roles available to keep it fresh. Such as, with DK I equally tank and DPS. As Shaman I love playing all 3 specs in a competitive nature and at the highest level I can attain. Covenants are going to make us choose the following: class ability (which is great for tanking but poor for DPS or visa versa). Utility: (which could also be good for one spec, not for another). Such as, a 4 second cast absorb is worthless for my Resto Shaman whom I play only in Arena. 4 seconds is a lifetime in Arena for a small absorb...no thanks.

I need to stop here because this will be a novel by the end. Hopefully, you get the gist. I think Covenants as they are look awful. It's too many, important choices rolled into a singular choice. It doesn't match how many play this game.

The bold part is sadly another thing the defenders of this abomination of a system chose to ignore. They (Blizzard) got the majority of the selling points of the expansion and tied them to a singular decision that picks one and excludes the rest in every way. It's moronic beyond description for a game like WoW in 2020

[DemonDays]

The bold part is sadly another thing the defenders of this abomination of a system chose to ignore. They (Blizzard) got the majority of the selling points of the expansion and tied them to a singular decision that picks one and excludes the rest in every way. It's moronic beyond description for a game like WoW in 2020

This is a game that has systematically removed RPG aspects and player choice and agency repeatedly over the last 6 or so years.

Now all of a sudden they're trying to "bring the RPG back" in the form of a singular bundled choice that is going to affect and shape almost EVERY aspect of how you play this expansion.

Cosmetic, DPS, utility, lore, story, quests etc all rolled into a SINGULAR choice.

This is not the direction this game has been moving for the past 6 years. They can't have it both ways.

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Or maybe he is just doing world quest and lfr, and yes in that case, you can just log once in a while.

That's what most of the fanboys are, LFR and WQ heroes.

"Just pick what you like."

Ok little Johnny the LFR hero. I don't tell you how to play in your little bubble, how about you stay in your lane?

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It's a massive disservice for my raid team to not choose a specific covenant for my class and spec. I guess because I give a shit I'm penalized.

Fuck you for caring about completing fun raid encounters with your friends.

Fuck you for wanting to play the game at an optimized level.

Fuck you for also wanting to pick a Covenant based on a questing, lore and cosmetic/transmog choice.


^This is what the Fanboys are telling you. Whilst they happily do their World Quests and LFR.


(This is sarcasm. Feel like I need a disclaimer nowadays.)

[Elias01]

It's a massive disservice for my raid team to not choose a specific covenant for my class and spec. I guess because I give a shit I'm penalized.

DO ylou realize everybody will be in that position and not jsut you. Your entire raid team will not be optimal at some point so you are not putting your raid behind like at all.

[Echocho]

DO ylou realize everybody will be in that position and not jsut you. Your entire raid team will not be optimal at some point so you are not putting your raid behind like at all.

If everyone picks exactly the same things you may not get through all the encounters because they'll most likely be designed with diversity in mind. You're gonna need to pick different ones so you got all your based covered.

That's the whole point of choices like these.

[Specialka]

The other issue is how will it be manage for specs? I mean one choice can be optimal for a dps spec but the worst one for the healer spec of the same class ? So how do you do it ? Farm a ton of reput like you farmed a ton of gold in Vanilla to switch specs ?

[Ravenyx]

The other issue is how will it be manage for specs? I mean one choice can be optimal for a dps spec but the worst one for the healer spec of the same class ? So how do you do it ? Farm a ton of reput like you farmed a ton of gold in Vanilla to switch specs ?

The real issue with that is hybrid classes.

Take a class like Mage or Warlock - three ranged caster specs, all dps. The mechanics of a covenant are likely going to work fairly similar regardless of the spec. Afterall, you are always doing the same thing, dealing damage from range.

Even classes like warrior, all three specs essentially need to deal damage at melee range so the same as above applies.

So what happens with a shaman or druid? Potentially vastly different mechanics on enhance for example - or in the druids case all of the specs. A covenant that works well for balance or resto might not work well for something like guardian or feral, they are doing something totally different.

You're going to end up being less than optimal for stuff like enhance, if you were going to ignore that spec anyway then fine but aren't we suposed to be going back in the direction of overall class identity? This is the absolute opposite of that!

Players 'should' be swapping to other specs if they want or need to and this makes that harder.

[Krakan]

Sounds like a healthy approach. Everyone should probably come at it from that angle, WoW isn't supposed to be your whole identity.

It really isn't.. more power to you if you enjoy sight seeing in a game but if your actually interested in the challenging content of it you should kinda care about if they are gonna fuck it up or not.

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If everyone picks exactly the same things you may not get through all the encounters because they'll most likely be designed with diversity in mind. You're gonna need to pick different ones so you got all your based covered.

That's the whole point of choices like these.

Wow doesn't work like this...

[BeepBoo]

So should Blizzard also get rid of gear? Its also rental power and resets every patch.

Having power rental systems you can easily cap out and having a stepped pyramid design strategy is fine with me. having tons of rental power systems that equate to a majority of your character's flavor and power far in excess of gear is fucking stupid.

[Hadriker]

The bold part is sadly another thing the defenders of this abomination of a system chose to ignore. They (Blizzard) got the majority of the selling points of the expansion and tied them to a singular decision that picks one and excludes the rest in every way. It's moronic beyond description for a game like WoW in 2020

I don't think anyone is ignoring it. They just don't care. A lot of people think the change is a net positive despite the effects it will have on those types of players.

I am one of those people. I like the direction to a more RPG like experience.

[SirBeef]

I don't think anyone is ignoring it. They just don't care. A lot of people think the change is a net positive despite the effects it will have on those types of players.

I am one of those people. I like the direction to a more RPG like experience.

Exactly. I just don't care. Whiners are gonna whine no matter what. The issue isn't even that people OK with this system want to screw over those upset about it. There are some obvious trolls, but most of us just don't care if you feel screwed over. That is on thise guys. I welcome back RPG meaningful decisions to this game.

[Sunslayer]

So should Blizzard also get rid of gear? Its also rental power and resets every patch.

How is that even comparable? When you get gear, you don't have to decide which talents you use. Covenants tie 3-4 choices into a single choice. Nothing in the game FORCES you to roll that many, completely different decisions into a single choice. The decisions you have to make are miles apart from one another. A DPS choice, a utility choice, a thematical choice and a talent tree choice. Seriously? This will fail horribly.

[Krakan]

Exactly. I just don't care. Whiners are gonna whine no matter what. The issue isn't even that people OK with this system want to screw over those upset about it. There are some obvious trolls, but most of us just don't care if you feel screwed over. That is on thise guys. I welcome back RPG meaningful decisions to this game.

I mean its gonna end the same way azerite did.

End of the day gameplay is going to triumph again it's just going to reap a toll of subs again.

[JustaRandomReindeer]

How is that even comparable? When you get gear, you don't have to decide which talents you use. Covenants tie 3-4 choices into a single choice. Nothing in the game FORCES you to roll that many, completely different decisions into a single choice. The decisions you have to make are miles apart from one another. A DPS choice, a utility choice, a thematical choice and a talent tree choice. Seriously? This will fail horribly.

Except classes and races, right? I mean, I would love for my Pala to have some of that Druid utility but I was forced to pick one or the other. And if I were a mythic raider I would have been forced to pick the best race for my class, but I don't care about mythic raiding so I play whichever race I like the most. So, yeah, complaining about RPG elements in an MMORPG game is kinda dumb.

[Specialka]

Except classes and races, right? I mean, I would love for my Pala to have some of that Druid utility but I was forced to pick one or the other. And if I were a mythic raider I would have been forced to pick the best race for my class, but I don't care about mythic raiding so I play whichever race I like the most. So, yeah, complaining about RPG elements in an MMORPG game is kinda dumb.

Nope you are wrong. Nowadays, race matters little in mythic raid environment on a dps standpoint. As far as utility goes, some races have more assets than others but it is far from being a deal breaker.

Tell me, if you pick a covenant because it is the best one for one of your dps specs (theme, more utility, more dps, whatever reason) but it is the worst for any of the others specs of your class, what will you do ? Will you be fine with it ?

[VinceVega]

Nope you are wrong. Nowadays, race matters little in mythic raid environment on a dps standpoint. As far as utility goes, some races have more assets than others but it is far from being a deal breaker.

Tell me, if you pick a covenant because it is the best one for one of your dps specs (theme, more utility, more dps, whatever reason) but it is the worst for any of the others specs of your class, what will you do ? Will you be fine with it ?

Nonono! You got it wrong. It is an RPG an nothing else. Only choice matters and if you do anything above LFR you are a no life tryhard whos opinion does not matter. ALso everyone else does not care one bit about what skill they pick or how much damage they do in any way. After all it is a MMO so you can completly ignore everyone else. Also classes with different roles can suck a bbc. Cause they are also tryhards and basement dwellers....

i think i got everything i was told since this whole discussion was started a few month back.

On a serious note: Race does no matter one bit. Choosing class is the RPG part everyone agreed to when starting a new character. I hate that argument. Of course it is an RPG choice whcih restricts you but no one has ever had a problem with it because it always was like this, you make that decision BEFORE investing a second into the char and this is the way games like this are played. FF14 is a bit different but this does not make it better.

In the end this will create so much unwill in the community blizz has to do something. At least the siganture abilities. The rest is shit anyway and will get adjusted 100x in the first year until no one knows what to choose.

The port ont he otherhand is mandatory right now.

[SirBeef]

I mean its gonna end the same way azerite did.

End of the day gameplay is going to triumph again it's just going to reap a toll of subs again.

1, I agree that gameplay should triumph, doesn't mean I don't mind RPG elements and meaningful choices. But if you are correct you'll get your wish of swappable covenant choices
2, subs don't matter as a metric to Blizzard, only to some players.

[Athulua]

MMO's all suffer from this unfortunately.
They can't give players total freedom like Path of Exile does with its giant passive skill tree.
Because your average WoW Joe will make a build that sucks and will whine that he gets rekt by simple heroic dungeons. Then he'll unsubscribe.

[JustaRandomReindeer]

Nonono! You got it wrong. It is an RPG an nothing else. Only choice matters and if you do anything above LFR you are a no life tryhard whos opinion does not matter. ALso everyone else does not care one bit about what skill they pick or how much damage they do in any way. After all it is a MMO so you can completly ignore everyone else. Also classes with different roles can suck a bbc. Cause they are also tryhards and basement dwellers....

i think i got everything i was told since this whole discussion was started a few month back.

On a serious note: Race does no matter one bit. Choosing class is the RPG part everyone agreed to when starting a new character. I hate that argument. Of course it is an RPG choice whcih restricts you but no one has ever had a problem with it because it always was like this, you make that decision BEFORE investing a second into the char and this is the way games like this are played. FF14 is a bit different but this does not make it better.

In the end this will create so much unwill in the community blizz has to do something. At least the siganture abilities. The rest is shit anyway and will get adjusted 100x in the first year until no one knows what to choose.

The port ont he otherhand is mandatory right now.

What are you complaining about? If you want to play hardcore you are free to choose the covenant that's best for your dps. If you are saying that you want to have Berserking for raids and Shadowmeld for M+ and be a Goblin at the same time then.. level alts? I don't know what to tell you.

[VinceVega]

What are you complaining about? If you want to play hardcore you are free to choose the covenant that's best for your dps. If you are saying that you want to have Berserking for raids and Shadowmeld for M+ and be a Goblin at the same time then.. level alts? I don't know what to tell you.

Basically i am complaining that they make me choose between either playing well in any competetive enviroment (no matter the level) or playing a visually pleasing game. As it stands now i have to take Venthyr to be viable in Mythic+ where my class is bad allready but i despise the look of that covenant.

Or i choose another one i like and play a good looking game with a story i care about but have to play a class that is allready subpar who is even further crippled by bad choices.

[Krakan]

1, I agree that gameplay should triumph, doesn't mean I don't mind RPG elements and meaningful choices. But if you are correct you'll get your wish of swappable covenant choices
2, subs don't matter as a metric to Blizzard, only to some players.

I honestly don't know to be honest blizz is a oddity among companies when it comes to design and testing.

I do think they are dead set on covenants just as I am sure they are going to panic and try to get rid of them like azerite and make a dozen simply awful systems to try and balance it.

I think blizz is a bit worried about sl. I have no data of course but the increased interaction among the community and what seems to be less preorders makes me think they are getting spooked.

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What are you complaining about? If you want to play hardcore you are free to choose the covenant that's best for your dps. If you are saying that you want to have Berserking for raids and Shadowmeld for M+ and be a Goblin at the same time then.. level alts? I don't know what to tell you.

I never understood how basic specialization became hardore/min maxing.

Gonna let you in on a pro gamer tip. Changing a single talent row based on how many mobs you expect to fight doesn't require that much investment.