"Forced" or "Mandatory" covenants

[Lolites]

You know Invis potion has 10 min CD? You can't wait for that during a timed dungeon.

5 minute for one, and thats BFA potion... or do we already know shadowlands invisibility potion?
with 5m cd you can easily skip 5+ groups of trash, how much trash you actualy CAN skip with the % requirement? i doubt its much more than that... in legion and bfa i doubt i ever used more than 2 in single run...

[Makabreska]

If Blizz treats balancing Covs seriously, Venthyr TP has to go. Waaaaaay to strong, while Kyrians get a goddamn potion.

[thilicen]

For casual players it indeed doesn't matter, but if the imbalance between the covenants is noticeable (And so far in alpha, it seems to be quite noticeable, usual disclaimers apply of course), i have no doubt that people will be tossed out of raids and mythic+ over it.

There's a sort of trickle-down elitism in WoW, if the big-name guilds do something a certain way, that attitude will show up all over, no matter how pointless it is for what people are actually doing, so if Method says "You have to be with this covenant for your class/spec", suddenly everybody will demand it.

Depends who you run with. My guild has no requirement of anything other than being gemmed / enchanted, we're still raiding mythic with reasonable progress. If you run with competitive guilds I can imagine it is indeed the case, though many casual / semi-casual guilds will probably let you play as you like.

[Tomana]

https://www.mmo-champion.com/content...ha-Build-34615

Hmmm, that looks promising, thanks for the link.
However, I fear that if you still aggro mobs during the spell, everyone will still go Venthyr for the teleport

[crusadernero]

Relax. Once you realise pushing high m+ keys is pointless it will all be better. Go for the covenant you will have most fun with.

[schwarzkopf]

Just like everything - these sort of decisions will make a lower impact on the vast majority of players than them being tired one night for raid.

If we don't want to make permanent decisions - then we'd all play the same class, the same spec, choose the same spells and talents and the same armour.

There would be several million multiboxers out there ... all identical.

[Makabreska]

Ye, I dunno about all those "only small minority will use it" replies. Member how popular rogues were in LFG pre-8.3, just for the Shroud? People will quickly learn to use TP for big skips, and they will spread this knowledge.

[klaps_05]

The issue is covenants provide special UTILITY - there will be a best covenant ability in different dungeons which means even if you pick one for m+, you will still be at disadvantage in some dungeons.

[Makabreska]

The issue is covenants provide special UTILITY - there will be a best covenant ability in different dungeons which means even if you pick one for m+, you will still be at disadvantage in some dungeons.

Except there is literally no scenario, where no path restricted TP wont be best in M+. What does it have to compete with? Shield? Mov speed? Swol owl? Ye, gl with that.

[Fkiolaris]

People keep talking nonsense about casuals, like we are some sort of imbeciles that we because we don't do Mythic +20 or whatever we are happy to roll as a prot warrior in full intellect cloth gear because it looks sexy on my belf or some shit like that. Try to get it into your skull for a change: that someone is casual does NOT mean that they don't care about their performance. A system that has ability X being the best for content Y if you play spec Z, while being difficult to change it, is complete trash because whenever I am not on combo X-Y-Z I will be feeling like I am handicapped and it matters. Even as a casual!

Seriously, enough with the bollocks that "95% of the wow population won't care"

[goldentforce]

The game is not an rpg. When Gameplay is tied to winning with other people involved not playing to win feels bad and makes people not want to play with you. Not only social pressures but a lot of people regardless of level of play want to do the best they can to win. The system goes against that with so many limitations because some abilities are niche, some abilities synergize too strongly with a spec, some are garbage for one spec, some utility especially for signature are too universal and unbalancable. A lot of people value the rpg elements of the covenants with zero gameplay, and many issues and limitations on experience are created by the gameplay portion. If you want rpg elements choosing a covenant faction should be enough.

[Marrilaife]

ironicaly, some people from method actualy said they like covnenat and its "permanent" choice...

They're also the ones that will roll 4x of the same class just to join every covenant and get whatever edge it gives them (I think Fleks mage already posted something like that).

They're also the ones that don't care if they miss a good transmog or mount as long as they get to pick the "best" ability.

They're also people with a long bench and I know a person who was offered a trial in Method at the end of Uldir and then cut from their roster in Nyalotha without being used on progression at all, mostly for split runs. If they needed an extra X class, he could be in. They didn't, so he bench warmed and still made a tweet how his time spent in Method was the best wow experience he ever had blah blah.

I've seen far too many people imitate the top no matter what, and 99% of the time it's someone who is like maybe upper echelon but still nowhere near the actual top. They're just parroting bullshit and making it stick because they usually think that they're a top 1% player and if everyone else didn't suck they would be recognized as such.

The typical bronze player mentality "I would be in diamond if I wasn't always placed in these noob teams that always throw"?

Guilds break up when key players take a break from the game. That means you're looking for a new guild and putting yourself in a position to prove yourself again. Unless you're a tank or a healer, you better be as close as possible to being optimized or you'll find yourself on the beach.

You think tanks or healers have it any better? Nope, they have it worse.

Healers? Every guild wanted hpals and discs and if you're rdruid either you end up in some shitty guild below your skill level or are delegated to only play m+ and maybe play boomkin in raids.

Tanks? Hoo boy, I'm yet to find a decent mythic guild that wouldn't write the dreaded line "lf tank multiclasser" i.e. you play whatever is current fotm and are expected to swap around. Tanks have it the worst to get a spot in a guild because there are only 2 tank spots and most guilds have extremely elevated expectations to what a tank should be.

You need to have high dps parses (gl if you don't optimize), compensate for healers literally not healing you and just aoe hps padding, grasp mechanics in 3 pulls even when dps take 20 tries to learn how to kick the ball on Xanesh, and often have "leadership capability" and "be vocal", but you know, without stepping on the toes of the GM who usually has "the best ideas" how things should be done and don't you dare to contest it.

But yeah, as a dps player if you say you only play marksman / arcane / affliction or whichever is the "non meta" spec atm expect to not be taken into any cutting edge guild over someone who can respec on a whim.

[Omedon]

People keep talking nonsense about casuals, like we are some sort of imbeciles that we because we don't do Mythic +20 or whatever we are happy to roll as a prot warrior in full intellect cloth gear because it looks sexy on my belf or some shit like that. Try to get it into your skull for a change: that someone is casual does NOT mean that they don't care about their performance. A system that has ability X being the best for content Y if you play spec Z, while being difficult to change it, is complete trash because whenever I am not on combo X-Y-Z I will be feeling like I am handicapped and it matters. Even as a casual!

Seriously, enough with the bollocks that "95% of the wow population won't care"

This is an important distinction that used to be a big war where instead of casuals you would use the word "roleplayer." I think the best way to smooth this perceived dichotomy is to acknowledge, as we all must knowing modern WoW and how it works, that there is a "good enough is good enough" lane to the game. I think it's fair to say that all three covenants will be designed to fit into this lane. That lane is, I would bet a lot of money, the one most players of the game travel in. In a reality that, again, I'm sure we all see, where WoW is a time management game before you get into twitch skill levels and min/maxing, there is a hardline dropoff where "how much the devs expect you'll play per day/week" in a "path of least resistance" vein, gives way to the "real grind" for power levels put on higher shelves that scream "enter at your own risk."

Me speaking for me, I've put my time in "being hardcore" in any and all gaming. WoW has my loyalty because it puts mythic+ and "raiding above LFR" in the same space that those Final Fantasy Superbosses used to be in the older games: Mega optional, there for a challenge, but gated behind time sinks, team connectivity, and skill levels that just... aren't worth it when there's going to be a gear reset every 6 months, as there must always be to attract new players healthily.

If you have friends, and your friends want to make a goal out of this or that higher difficulty, all the power to you! There is, however, a very broad and enjoyable game below all those higher difficulties. All three covenants will be just fine in that space.

[Tronski]

Lol? In what world do you live?

Assuming covenants are balanced as well as corruptions... do you not see how picking the "wrong" covenant just because you like the abilities more or think it's cooler thematically could cost you A LOT?

Stop day dreaming. For anyone who has a mind to be good, statistically, and be part of a top tier *anything* in the game, there will be no choice, because blizzard with fuck it up and they will be nowhere close in terms of performance.

I'm literally gonna demand specific covenants when making m+ groups just to prove the naysayers wrong. This is gonna be a thing and everyone is gonna hate it, .2 is gonna change it so you can reroll at a high cost, .3 for free.

[Nagawithlegs]

I'm literally gonna demand specific covenants when making m+ groups just to prove the naysayers wrong. This is gonna be a thing and everyone is gonna hate it, .2 is gonna change it so you can reroll at a high cost, .3 for free.

You can already reroll for a high cost at launch and have implied they will make it free if people complain enough.

[This One Time At Bandcamp]

This is pure bullshit. You can do whatever the hell you want. It won't cost you a raid spot, you can still do m+ and pugs won't spit on you.

I know multiple raidteams that intent to switch covenants for the last boss..

Sure you can keep the same covenant all the way through, but you won't get a spot in a top 50 guild, if you are not willing to do what it takes.

[Omedon]

You can already reroll for a high cost at launch and have implied they will make it free if people complain enough.

But they haven't backed down yet on the idea that "going back to someone you left" will be less accessible. That says to me that we all get one do-over for later in the game where "the mount I really want for this character specifically" is put into the datamining files for a covenant that you don't belong to.

Honestly that's the bigger deal for me: adding covenant exclusive cosmetics after I've picked one! The covenant exclusive stuff that comes in at 9.2 or beyond is where it gets really nasty, IMO. I'm surprised more noise isn't being made over that!

[crakerjack]

Wanna do Mythic+? Pick this Covenant or be severely disadvantaged in fun and performance.

Wanna do PvP? Pick this Covenant or be severely disadvantaged in fun and performance.

Wanna do well in the cleave heavy Raid? Pick this Covenant or be severely disadvantaged in fun and performance.

Wanna do well in the single target heavy Raid? Pick this Covenant or be severely disadvantaged in fun and performance.

I think that's a bit of a stretch. Obviously some will be better than others based on the situation, but lets not pretend like we're talking about a significant difference in performance. Overall, I bet most people won't notice that much of a difference. Someone has a strong ST covenant ability and someone else has a strong AoE covenant ability. There's never been a raid/dungeon that hasn't had just ST or AoE fights. There's always a balance of both. Acting like you're losing a significant amount of dps/healing just because you picked one covenant over the other is pure speculation. We won't know until they come out, but believing blizz would be dumb enough to make covenant abilities factor into your performance that much is absurd.

[Nagawithlegs]

But they haven't backed down yet on the idea that "going back to someone you left" will be less accessible. That says to me that we all get one do-over for later in the game where "the mount I really want for this character specifically" is put into the datamining files for a covenant that you don't belong to.

Honestly that's the bigger deal for me: adding covenant exclusive cosmetics after I've picked one! The covenant exclusive stuff that comes in at 9.2 or beyond is where it gets really nasty, IMO. I'm surprised more noise isn't being made over that!

No, when they say "you can swap" really doesn't sound like you get ONE chance. That's a little reaching and I don't think they need to say "you can swap more than once!" to get that point across.

To address your other point, their comments on swapping focus to tier sets and heritage sets later makes it sound like there will be very few cosmetic rewards for the covenants post-launch. We already have one mount per covenant with an upgraded bridle (the covenant-exclusive mount: you can find these already) and their one armor set per armor type. There is also one flying mount per area that likely won't be accessible until a later patch so that's your flying mount per covenant: you can also find these online. Maybe they'll get upgraded bridles and armor as well? Maybe.

We don't have all the pets for the covenants yet. It's been datamined that there are exclusive hearthstones so that's nice, and I'm sure there will be toys, but it's VERY likely that every single reward for the covenants will be available to look up at launch. And I personally doubt there will be a lot of rewards post-launch besides the flying mounts for each covenant because they've said they'll be working on different kinds of cosmetics at that point.

[Ghostile]

In one hand people want meaningful choices, in the other people want everything to be equal.