Feral/Guardian Suggestions from a 15 year Druid Main

[Potatocrawler]

Good morning! While I don’t have access to Alpha, as a 15 year druid man, primarily in Feral and Guardian, I figured I would give my two cents on some possible changes and tweaks for the specs based on videos I’ve watched, notes in the various Alpha builds, and discussion I’ve seen by those both in the Alpha and commenting on it by my fellow furry friends. First, my suggestions will focus primarily on the feel and design of the classes, as numbers can always be adjusted, and the changes they made mid-expansion to both cat and bear were good steps in the right direction. Second, I am a PVE player so that is where my ideas are centered. And third, I’m tossing TONS of ideas, and this doesn’t mean I expect or wants ALL of the changes I’m going to talk about. I figure it’s better to toss in everything AND the kitchen sink, with the hope we can get some discussion and ideas flowing. I’ll cover feral, then guardian, and finally minor QoL for both in my feedback and suggestions.

Feral
1. Bloodtalons: One of the few things the vast majority of Feral mains agree on is that Bloodtalons was fine. Why change it at all? Very much a case of “it wasn’t broken, but we fixed it anyways”. The new design seems very clunky and counter-intuitive, and not being able to choose which ability gets buffed removes player agency and decision-making from the rotation.
2. The Un-pruning: Abilities missed Ashmane’s Frenzy (I know, we kind of have it as a talent now, but it’s much different and never taken in PVE), Jagged Wounds, Faerie Fire, Claws of Shirvallah, Artifact traits (Ashmane’s Bite, Shadow Thrash, Open Wounds), Leader of the Pack (more on that later). So many cool and interesting abilities removed throughout the years.
3. Sabertooth: Many Ferals hate the “big bite” game play and a reduction of our focus on bleeds. I think this is a fine talent, but it is leaps and bounds better than the other options on the row (unless you are going heavy AOE then you take Predator). Either buff its competition in the talent tree, and/or bring back the execute mechanic for Ferocious Bite (Same effect as talent, except it’s only on enemies at 20% or less health).
4. Cool-downs: They are not impactful and do not feel fun to press. Compare Berserk to things like Army of the Dead, Metamorphosis, Combustion windows, etc. And Incarnation, which is powerful, is outclasses by the other two options. Either buff Berserk or make Incarnation baseline. Boomkins get Celestial Alignment baseline and can spec into Incarnation, whereas if we spec Incarn, it replaces Zerk.
5. Utility: Where is it? Feral, contrary to popular belief, actual pumps both ST and AOE. The problem is our distinct lack of utility. Our one unique piece that we only share with Bears is Stampeding Roar. However, come Shadowlands, Boomkins can have Solarbeam, Treants, Typhoon, Ursols’s Vortex, Innervate, B-rez, AND our Stampeding Roar combined! And Cyclone and Entangling Roots without shifting forms. Where is our unique and useful utility? Leader of the Pack, Mark of the Wild, Faerie Fire, Claws of Shiv versatility aura.

Guardian
1. Utility Tax of a tank: Everyone knows how strong Resto is since they can throw HoTs on people, then catweave. Balance can off-heal with minor disruption to their rotation. Even as feral, I went Resto affinity on our guild’s healing intensive prog fights for the extra boost we needed to get kills. However, Guardian doesn’t have these utility opportunities. If we shift out of Bear Form to use our resto affinity, entangling roots to help kite, etc., we die. Imagine if to heal his group, a Protection Paladin unequipped his shield for 4-6 seconds while doing that healing, or if a Deathknight gripped something, he couldn’t Deathstrike for x amount of seconds. Make it so some more of our utility can be used in bear form. Slap a giant mana cost or CD’s on it if you have to.

Group utility is pretty good, but suffers from the same problems as Feral in that Boomkin/Resto far outclasses us in the amount they provide. And why revert the ability to take typhoon and vortex as a bear? This was a GREAT change mid-BFA for us bears.
2. Subpar abilities/talents: Primarily Lunarbeam and Maul. Lunarbeam is actual garbage, and even when running the Guardian back legendary with Boomkin shoulders build (max nature/arcane damage for self healing and damage), I never used this awful talent. Maul costs a ton of rage, and hits like a wet noodle. Buff it, or give it a new/additional effect. If I’m MAULING something it shouldn’t feel like I’m tickling a mob.
3. Dealing with (Magic) Damage: Of course every tank has its strengths and weaknesses. Guardian’s has been magic the last few expansions, minus the start of legion and Mark of Ursol. I’m fine with it being gone, however, the way we dealt with Magic damage was A, having a giant healthpool, and B, using Frenzied Regeneration to heal up. However, when co-tanking with my similarily geared DK co-tank, we have the same health pool. And he can heal like crazy. I really miss things like Adaptive Fur, the extra frenzied regen stack AND it being based off the incoming damage as a way to add some thought to the use of your abilities.

At the very least take Frenzied off the GCD, it feels awful.
4. Un-pruning: Bear Hug (ST stun and %damage based on your health), Sharpened claws (built in thrash slow to help kiting), the infinite thrash proc (not actually, but it was a bit busted just tone it down), Scintillating Moonlight (moonfire giving damage reduction), RAGE OF THE SLEEPER (strong CD that could be defensive or offensive depending on what you needed), lacerate. I miss the Boomkin Shoulders/Bear cloak build from Legion, giving me more control over my health and not being so reliant on a healer. Legion added so much awesome stuff to Guardian, and then 99% of it was removed (a common occurrence for many specs, but several specs got their really cool stuff baked-in or kept as talent options at least).
5. Stats and class fantasy: With all gear removed, why does Guardian Druid have crit, their most useless defensive secondary, as their secondary with the largest amount built in? (10% critical strike versus 4% mastery). When you imagine bears, do you picture some nimble, lithe animal dodging and weaving. Or do you picture an unstoppable juggernaut of fur and muscle taking the hit and plowing forward. Either change the stat weight, or maybe create a way for crit to benefit you more defensively (critical hits have a change to give you a shield or decaying max health, perhaps?)

Quality of Life for Both
1. Visual and Audio Updates to Abilities: When I maul something, why does my sweet Legion-era bear skin revert to the old busted vanilla model, and breaks my back at a 90 degree angle? Why did you make the Feral abilities sound like low-budget sci-fi lasers? There are so many stunning animations and sounds in this game, so some love in this area would be nice. Our ability names (shred, rip, rake, mangle, thrash, swipe) are boring enough, they don’t need to sound and looking boring too.
2. New forms: One of the best thing about Legion was without a doubt the various cool skins for our animal forms. Since everyone is getting sweet Covenant armor, why not create skins unique to the Covenant you choose for your Bear/Cat/Tree/Boomkin forms? This would really help sell the cosmetic side to me as a druid, since shifting forms kills any interest I have in mounts and what gear looks like.

Again, I’m throwing as many darts at the board with the hope that some of it sticks, or at least creates some discussion!

[PizzaJesus]

As someone who absolutely loves playing druid, I agree with this 100%.
This was very well articulated, and presented.

[Whitepaw]

Blood Talons can go diaf tbh. I've always have that opinion and I can't wait for them to change it.

[TickTickTick]

Bring back Leader of the Pack and Moonkin aura.

I have no idea why they thought they should be removed, while buffs like stamina, int, attack power, magic dmg / physical dmg taken brought by only one class is fine. It's just unfair how certain classes / specs are neccessary in a raid group, while others can be replaced with no care.

[Djuntas]

I just want better survival for feral druids, at least in PvM. We feel so squishy...Like we just need more than survival instincts. Also feral druid needs better CD than Berserk...its so limited...Like yay, more energy regen ? I would like 25% increased crit on top of that or something.

Anyway I will never switch away from druid...Once you go druid, even if we sucked in classic (I was healing 95% of the time...) it didnt sour me, and once TBC happend I never looked back.

[Potatocrawler]

I just want better survival for feral druids, at least in PvM. We feel so squishy...Like we just need more than survival instincts. Also feral druid needs better CD than Berserk...its so limited...Like yay, more energy regen ? I would like 25% increased crit on top of that or something.

Anyway I will never switch away from druid...Once you go druid, even if we sucked in classic (I was healing 95% of the time...) it didnt sour me, and once TBC happend I never looked back.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but the actually nerfed SI on the alpha...

Also, since it hasn't really caught on here or the official WoW forums, check out reddit for the cross-post I made there. I can't post links (too new to MMO account I guess), but the reddit thread has generated over 134 comments, and as of now, has been on the front page of /r/wow for the last 24 hours! Lots of good discussion, which is all I wanted.

[Djuntas]

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but the actually nerfed SI on the alpha...

Also, since it hasn't really caught on here or the official WoW forums, check out reddit for the cross-post I made there. I can't post links (too new to MMO account I guess), but the reddit thread has generated over 134 comments, and as of now, has been on the front page of /r/wow for the last 24 hours! Lots of good discussion, which is all I wanted.

Cool man. I hate to hear that...Say when I farm island and we do these mega-pulls...You know what I mean if you farmed dublons, and often I just RIP due to 3-5 sec stun, while other classes survive it. I really just wish for more survival in PvM, and berserk..This is kinda embarrassing to admit, but I often never use berserk cause I cant find a window where its good to use it...Like its not something I need to pop on trash, and then it just becomes a single target CD...Also nobody picks incarnation talent etc.