Horde Reparations

[geco]

Beyond the nonsensical of BFA.

On the Horde side. The Horde has to pay but Players No.
On the Alliance side. They have to give something that really looks like the end of the conflict.

The cleanest thing I can think of is for the Horde to build a wall around the elven forests (Inculcated Azhara). Pointing at them and done.

The Horde is losing nothing. Actually, it can be used as an excuse to improve Horde territories.
The Kaldorei and the Alliance can say that they won something and that this time the Horde paid peace and not alliance and it has a new wall big enough to make it iconic.

PS: The same thing is that Blizzard's idea is to start the war again in one or two spans so they won't do anything. We are now closer to a war than to the end of Legion.

[Ersula]

The cleanest thing I can think of is for the Horde to build a wall around the elven forests (Inculcated Azhara). Pointing at them and done.

I think they're going to do some kind of time skip, or in some way Turalyon & Lorethemar are going to escalate the war while the other characters are busy in the shadowlands. There is this new Purple magic surrounding the sunwell on the ptr? Are the void elves attacking it? Or is Thalyssra putting up some kind of barrier? Someone suggested the Void elves are going to capture Silvermoon but the Nightborne & Blood elf mages are going to teleport the Sunwell away like Dalaran which sounds interesting.

[Swnem]

That's actually the biggest issue we have now. With all the atrocities the horde has committed at this point, is very hard to find something that the alliance could do that would not be justified. Even starting another all our war and killing all horde civilians, including children, would be justified and morally acceptable, even if it would get really dark.

That is the problem: The horde as a whole now is pure evil and from an alliance POV there is no difference between the legion, the scourge and the horde. I really don't know how the factions should ever become morally equal again.

Yeah, the only way i could see that working is for the good part of the horde to secede the horde and join with the alliance to form an Alliance of Azeroth. Then the remaining horde either NPC's or if we want to keep an evil horde player faction, could clearly become the antagonists.

But, people seem to not like that solution. Would it be ok if Alliance vs horde still worked but horde were an NPC faction? The problem with a player faction is that nothing conclusive can ever happen.

[geco]

The writing is silly, to turn Sylvanas into a cartoonish villain, and even then to consider the Horde as plainly evil, you have to ignore all the Horde figures who did have a problem with what was happening. The story dedicated so much time to that.

Varock only?

[Ielenia]

Still, The Iron Horde, the Fel Horde & the New Horde are totally different groups. So my analogy to the Draenei & Eredar still applies. Turalyon insisting they were the same group seemed weird to me when he returned in legion, but then he melted a guy's brain in front of his family in Shadows Rising. Turalyon's irrational hatred of Orcs makes sense if he's supposed to be the next Garrosh. It's finally time for an Alliance character to get Blizzard's patented character-assassination treatment

Are they? Because, unlike your draenei/eredar example, the actions of the draenei are the complete opposite to the rest of the eredar race: while the man'ari seeks conquering and corrupting, the draenei just want to live peacefully.

While the MU orcs of today have shown to be just as war-happy to go "lok'tar ogar" onto the Alliance. Look at Brennadam. The Horde invaded and killed civilians, gleefully. One 'rare' encounter, as Alliance, has you defending a healer and their patients from a Horde member all too happy to cut them down. And, let's not forget, a picture that was posted by @Nymrohd, here:


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MU horde did worse than iron horde, period, no matter how you want to distort that.

AU Horde is still worse, because they committed the same atrocities while in sound mind and body, while the MU fel Horde did so while under the influence of a demon curse.

[Soon-TM]

The problem with a player faction is that nothing conclusive can ever happen.

That's exactly the problem with villain batting a playable faction: it cannot truly lose (neither win, for that matter), so all we have left are this !@#$ty "armistices", which make no sense whatsoever, and are a mere pretext for more virtue signaling from writers.

[Syegfryed]

AU Horde is still worse, because they committed the same atrocities while in sound mind and body, while the MU fel Horde did so while under the influence of a demon curse.

and that is just blatantly false.

The "same" things you are putting here are just "killing people" and "using souls to open the dark portal" while ignoring everything else, using entirely your own biased opinion

By this Awesome logic, every living race is as bad as iron horde because every race "killed people"

[Ielenia]

and that is just blatantly false.

Because you say so?

The "same" things you are putting here are just "killing people" and "using souls to open the dark portal" while ignoring everything else, using entirely your own biased opinion

And yet you've failed to provide a single example of "everything else" that can be considered "bad" or "evil". The "path of glory"? Yay, all the draenei they killed were dumped in a single place. Woop-dee-doo.

By this Awesome logic, every living race is as bad as iron horde because every race "killed people"

Except that was not my logic at all. What you wrote is nothing but a blatantly false misrepresentation of my argument. This only shows your bias toward orcs, and an inability, or lack of desire to understand what is really being discussed.

[Syegfryed]

Because you say so?


And yet you've failed to provide a single example of "everything else" that can be considered "bad" or "evil".

you ignoring what is said is different than "failing to provide", im not gonna enter your game of circulr argument and keep repeating since thats what you like

Except that was not my logic at all. What you wrote is nothing but a blatantly false misrepresentation of my argument. This only shows your bias toward orcs, and an inability, or lack of desire to understand what is really being discussed.

you literally said they are bad because they have killed draenei, thats it, both killed, both are equal bad or worse, nothing else, no other variable.

it is a dumb logic and would put every organization/race/people in the same boat, well the alliance/humans/elves killed a fuckton of other races, from gnolls to trolls, guess they are as bad or worse that the iron horde then

[Ielenia]

you ignoring what is said is different than "failing to provide", im not gonna enter your game of circulr argument and keep repeating since thats what you like

Again: the "Path of Glory" is small potatoes compared to the worst things both sides have done.

you literally said they are bad because they have killed draenei, thats it, both killed, both are equal bad or worse, nothing else, no other variable.

Except I literally did not. I said they are evil because they consumed the draenei souls to power their portal, which was the most heinous atrocities both the Iron Horde and Fel Horde committed, which puts both at the same level of "evil".