Hunters in Shadowlands

[LoLcano]

All i know is nobody gonna step in arena as BM in Shadowland with how easy it is to kill pet and lol 6 sec cast revive .

[heheszek]

Love to hear how you justify your statement "MM will be trash at PVP".

Ice Trap
Tar Trap
Binding Shot
Concussive Shot
Bursting Shot
Survival Instincts (stolen from druid) - no pet
Master's Call - with pet
Exhilaration
Aspect of the Turtle
Kill Shot (returned)

ALL BASELINE

On top of those, I can talent into:
Scatter Shot
Sniper's Shot (health percentage damage, and extends all ranged attacks to 60 yards)
Explosive Trap (2nd knock back)

1 ability would make that difference? i mean there are 0 - literally 0 mm hunters on pvp ladders now

comparing it to destro lock in current state i can say well (including your list) mm hunter should be 10x better than destro .. but sorry class with 2 dmg buttons and 5 cc on different dr and chaos bolt being 20x better than aimed shot just because its chaos bolt, is just better BY FAR(to be clear its destro)
sniper shot is troll talent like half of the hunters toolkit in his pvp talents. percentage dmg heavily reduced by armor even of a cloth class

mm needs to be reverted to wotlk/cata/mop style and it d be ok in pvp. in legion mm shined during a few seasons, but only because of numbers - it had good dmg and decent cc with bursting shot having 4s disorient in different DR to trap(like old scatter shot used to be)

introduction of Lone Wolf + making ms effect on pets + removal half of our cc made this class boring and slow.

pumping big numbers wont fix problems of this class, we would ba another fire mage that deals dmg effortlessly. No idea but then just add more and more dmg buttons to this class, while other casters have a few buttons that makes more impact(i.e destro lock xd)
rapid fire, aimed shot, steady shot, arcane shot, multi shot, talents ( crows[serpent sting], explosive shot, piercing shot, barrage, sniper shot, in SL - chimera shot, kill shot, flare;d) I mean what the actuall duck is that

[Kehego]

Most of those are so easily negated. Melee slow you just as much as you slow them, while most have better ways to catch a Hunter than a Hunter has a way to get away. Range don’t really worry about slows vs other range as they are standing still to cast anyways.
As far as tar trap and concussive shot, most melee have ways to suppress or close the distance despite that, and others even slow a Hunter more than a Hunter slows them. Add on that melee continue to beat on the Hunter while the Hunter has to find a way to stop moving to cast hard hitting AiS and Sniper Shot, as well as create a gap to not get beat on.
Add on that your Ice Trap, Scatter Shot, and Bursting Shot all add to diminishing returns, on top of what your teammate does, they won’t be usable all the time. Let alone others usually have longer and better stuns than those that you don’t want to override.
Master’s Call and Survival Instinct aren’t always available depending on the situation.
I’m not stating MM will be dead, or that I agree with the other person, I’m just stating these things don’t add up to being amazing at PvP. Most of them are minor aides at best in most situations.

- - - Updated - - -



Yes, 14 seconds is pretty normal, but most dot specs don’t lose those dots while having to build their resource to apply them.
As stated, Hunters lose focus to a point they can’t keep applying SS to everything w/o negating ES and BA. Using those 2 abilities also hinders applying dots. The bottom line is that Hunters didn’t have the focus capacity to be considered a spread multidot spec like some people try to hype up.
Also, look at my last post with all the other specs/classes that have dots like that people don’t consider dot specs to put it into more of a perspective.

thrill procs, I addressed this like my first post on the matter.
If you already have serpent on a target (you will) and a thrill proc, you actually lose nothing to dot another target.

[Eapoe]

thrill procs, I addressed this like my first post on the matter.
If you already have serpent on a target (you will) and a thrill proc, you actually lose nothing to dot another target.

So your argument is that you need to have a random proc to be able to successfully multidot mobs? That’s a pretty weak argument to try and verify SV as a multidot class alike a Lock and Spriest.
As I’ve also pointed out numerous times, current SV actually multidots in the same fashion as old SV.

[Jamais]

1 ability would make that difference? i mean there are 0 - literally 0 mm hunters on pvp ladders now

So you are comparing BfA Mm to BfA destro, which is currently the most op pvp spec (atm, destro is literally ''bullying other classes'' tier - the only spec which can stand in the middle of the open field and control the match from start to finish).

You also say it's only 1 spell, ignoring that we get tranq, soothing and scare beast, along with hunter's mark and binding baseline (which will allow us to pick Posthaste talent). You also ignore the fact that MM is currently overtuned on beta, and while the balancing is yet to be done, all i really want is a hard, formidable hitting AiS.

This is all before covenants and souldbinds come into play. As for covenants, except for Night fae, all class abilities look strong in both PvP and PvE.

Btw, MM in BfA was by no means bad in PvP - it was bad in arena, which is only a part of pvp. In open world and bgs, i've found it to be much more fluent and better then BM, especially if you can abuse terrain and Sniper Shot.

[threads]

All i know is nobody gonna step in arena as BM in Shadowland with how easy it is to kill pet and lol 6 sec cast revive .

same for SV. good luck regen focus with kill command when ur pet is dead.

[gushDH]

It really makes me sad, I wanted Hunter to be better, but all specs right now, to me, do not feel good. Maybe after many years I will have to reroll for good. Sucks

[Rustov]

Reminder that MoP Cobra Shot added duration to existing Serpent Stings. Building Focus and keeping Stings rolling were the same action (and it felt very good to master that uptime). There were very rarely more than two important mobs in disparate parts of the room, and keeping Sting rolling on both (while keeping ES off CD) was not easy nor impossible.

[dexx]

Do the recent MM changes make MM more fun to play?

[Brocksley]

Do the recent MM changes make MM more fun to play?

From my testing, the standard rotation feels ok, mainly due to rapid fire not being so long anymore. But during true shot, it's all a cluster fuck of casting full-cast-time steady shots.

[fluffybadger]

Anyone else would like to see Lock and Load baseline for MM or is too much of a strong addition?

[Sondrelk]

From my testing, the standard rotation feels ok, mainly due to rapid fire not being so long anymore. But during true shot, it's all a cluster fuck of casting full-cast-time steady shots.

Personally I found that there are simply too many buttons that you need to keep track of and not enough time or resources to use them all.
You have precise shots interfering with the usage of Aimed Shot and Rapid Fire during cooldowns, Dead Eye being mostly useless because it gives you too many Aimed Shots to use.
Generally there are just too many buttons that you should press at the same time, mostly because there is little interplay between abilities, so the only hint you have to which are best is to sim them. Should I use Precise Shots for instance? It is one of hte few procs the spec has, but it feels awful to use. Rapid fire having a shorter channel time is nice and all, but the focus regen on it feels completely pointless. Aimed Shot is still a long hardcast, but still hasn't had any structure around it since the Uldir turret build.

- - - Updated - - -

Not to mention that the vanilla actionbar barely has enough room for all the abilities you could choose, the average players likely has to choose at least a few passives just to fit them on the bar, and that is even without considering how you would even use the abilities even cllose to effectively while juggling all the other buttons.

[Queen of Hamsters]

Basically, SL Hunter is what happens when they listen to screechers about the number of buttons rather than actual gameplay and synergy.

[Elim Garak]

I want SV back to ranged and make the BM melee for all I care, oh and delete MM.

[Brocksley]

I think the rotation is completely silly if you did take all of the extra shots. Serpent sting, explosive shot/barrage, volley, and with the pvp talents you could add 3 more shots too. virtually no interactivity between any of them, just an extra button to push.

I think that we shouldn't expect any changes though. The last update they gave had a feeling of, "well this is the best we care to do until next expansion." Hunters are such an afterthought if they are even thought of at all.

[Kaver]

Basically, SL Hunter is what happens when they listen to screechers about the number of buttons rather than actual gameplay and synergy.

To be fair, I don't think a lot of people actually asked specifically for hunter's mark.

Also, the current BFA BM hunter doesn't really have any synergy in it's rotation other than barbed shot reducing the CD of BW. And that just happens automatically by playing your "rotation" normally. It's not something you have to think about at all. The current BM hunter is basically "use stuff on CD" and spam barbed shot in between if your crit is high enough. You don't even have to really care about frenzy stacks anymore because of all the crit.

[Queen of Hamsters]

To be fair, I don't think a lot of people actually asked specifically for hunter's mark.

Also, the current BFA BM hunter doesn't really have any synergy in it's rotation other than barbed shot reducing the CD of BW. And that just happens automatically by playing your "rotation" normally. It's not something you have to think about at all. The current BM hunter is basically "use stuff on CD" and spam barbed shot in between if your crit is high enough. You don't even have to really care about frenzy stacks anymore because of all the crit.

I am well aware. Hunter main non-stop since 11 years.

And SL = there's no meaningful change, because people screeched about number of buttons throughout BfA.

I'd rather take 3 buttons that actually play off one-another, than 16 buttons to just hit as one lights up.

[Huntsmang]

The disrecpect to survival hunter in too much, if you're gonna change it from a great Rdps into a Mdps then atleast bother with it.

[KrayZ33]

I'd rather take 3 buttons that actually play off one-another, than 16 buttons to just hit as one lights up.

I'd rather not choose between these 2 options and demand a proper third option.
If we can only choose between BFA BM and BFA BM + useless shit such as HM attached to it, I'm not choosing at all and will play something else.

[Sondrelk]

To be fair, I don't think a lot of people actually asked specifically for hunter's mark.

Also, the current BFA BM hunter doesn't really have any synergy in it's rotation other than barbed shot reducing the CD of BW. And that just happens automatically by playing your "rotation" normally. It's not something you have to think about at all. The current BM hunter is basically "use stuff on CD" and spam barbed shot in between if your crit is high enough. You don't even have to really care about frenzy stacks anymore because of all the crit.

Hunters mark could be a really cool niche ability with a lot of flavor and potential in PvP and certain raid bosses, the problem is just that they added a 5% damage buff to it, which means that you will always put it on whatever you want to do the most damage to, which is pretty much always something which isnt going to go invisible.

Had Blizzard simply removed the 5% damage buff then it could end up in the spellbook as that cool niche ability that looks kinda cool to someone into RP where it belongs. that ability does not belong anywhere near damage optimization.