The Races of Azeroth in 10.0 After a Timeskip

[Soon-TM]

I've wondered how much work it will be myself, but one big issue back during cata is that they had to watch out for nostalgia. No one wanted to see their favorite zones totally gone. A lot of work probably went into designing around the existing world.

With the release of classic and even more phasing tech, it truly gives Blizz an option to reshape the entire world and questlines.

During Cata beta, I followed quite closely the changes they were doing to the old world. I remember thinking "man, this whole railroaded experience is going to suck donkey balls". And it did, as far as I am concerned. There is literally NOTHING in the post-Cata old world I would miss if Blizzard revamped it from scratch. The good ol' Kalimdor/EK is still there in Classic anyway - and the Loa know how much I love it.

[shise]

Lordaeron is back in Shadowlands, through the Shadowlands.

Alliance will enter it as a spiritual human kingdom, the undead will do so as well, with the the eyes of the undead.

Both factions will be able to access and use it, as a hub, simultaneously but they it will be phased into undead and human spirit kingdoms.

[Melusine]

I also thought about how could life on Azeroth look like in near future. Here are my thoughts:

HUMANS
- Elwyn Forest and Westfall are being transformed by increasing agriculture and industry, now more resembling Stormsong Valley. The two regions are now more connected
- Redridge is now being more heavily fortified as new garrison is being build here to protect Kingdom of Stormwind from encroaching threats from Burning Steppes and Swamp of Sorrows.
- Renewed relations with Kul Tiras come to fruition in Menethil Harbor, which is now called Proudmoore Harbor and is rebuild in a kul tiran fashion. It is now prosperous city of trade
- Stromgarde is now powerful stronghold of the Alliance on the northern parts of EK. Trollbanes are now about to reclaim Hillsbrad as their own and want the region to add into Kingdom of Stromgarde.

This does not sound too unreasonable. Stromgarde is the Alliance's again, and Danath Trollbane can reclaim this once great city.

Dwarves
- Moira, Muradin and Falstad decide that in order to adress pleas of all dwarven nations better, Council of Three Hammers will change their seat of power every few years. Since they resided in Ironforge for several years, they relocated into Shadowforge City.
- Moira's son is now grown up and is preparing for taking over his throne. He has been sent to Twilight Highlands to educate more about ways of Wildhammers and get some experience.
- Dark Irons face encroaching orcs and mag'har orcs who are invading upper sections of Blackrock Mountain and Burning Steppes. There are rumors that those orcs are now in league with the Horde.
- Grim Batol is retaken

Gonna take issue with something it would appear you forgot about. Dagran Thaurissan II, the son of Moira. He's not going to stay a baby forever, and he is the rightful heir to the throne. There is really no reason the dwarves should reseat their kingdom anywhere except Ironforge. The council of Three Hammers is dissolved, but Dagran II insists that the council remain as his advisors with one change. In order of fairness, that his mother be named the Queen Mother, and Thaelin take her place upon the council. A battle ensues to reclaim Grim Batol, and he leads from the front, in a daring and dangerous trek through the once besieged strong hold, and encounters the remnants of the Cult of the Damned attempting to corrupt unhatched red dragon eggs to create a new dragon force with eggs seized from the Vermilion Redoubt in Alexstrasza's absence. He is successful in doing so, gains the blessing of the Red Dragonflight, and is crowned by Magni himself the new uncontested king of Ironforge. The Wildhammers pledge their gryphons to the Three Hammers, the dark Irons find their home among the dwarves, and the Bronzebeards lay aside their differences with the dark irons and no longer view them with any degree of suspicion.

Gnomes
- With the aid of their mechagnome cousins, gnomes finaly manages to fully retake Gnomeregan and cleanse it of radiation. They reconstructed most of the city, which is now marvel of modern technology.

This sounds like a long time coming, here.

Draenei
- after years of isolation, draenei decide to build more settlements on Azeroth and make their living here
- Azuremyst Isles are now place of New Karabor, spectacular temple city. Majority of Bloodmyst Isles are cleansed, but there are places where void rifts are being still opened after all these years.
- Eager to help their allies, draenei makes settlement in Arathi Higlands, helping newly rebuild Stromgarde to battle ogre and troll threats and help in their quest to claim Hillsbrad for their own
- Lightforged decided to pledge themselves to fight undead threat and make their way to plaguelands.

I would write the Draenei story more like this.

- The Exodar is now fully repaired. It floats about Azuremyst Isle and serves as a Draenei capital ship. The Botanica and Mechanar have been relocated to the Exodar and float to the left and right of the grand space fortress, and the Vindicaar floats just above the Exodar.
- In the Bloodmyst Isle area, a new Auchindoun was constructed to serve as the new resting place for the Draenei. The Draenei have decided to make Azeroth their new home. A few remain back in Shattrath City with the Naaru that are there, but A'dal takes his place in the throne of O'ros.
- The lightforged, under the leadership of Captain Fareeya have recovered the wreckage of the Xenedar and brought it transdimensionally to Azeroth using Tempest keep and the Arcatraz as its towing vessels. The resting place of the Xenedar is in the northern most area of Bloodmyst Isle along with Tempest Keep and the Arcatraz.
- The Draenei races keep to themselves. Most of the Draenei are doing their best to recover their civilizations, and it is found that Draenei technology works of Azeroth, like it did Argus.

Night elves
- Over the years, most of the night elves living in EK decided to relocate to Kalimdor to liberate their ancestral lands
- Darkshore is in hands of kaldorei since BfA. Ashenvale followed and majority of the forest is now back in hands of elves. Every Horde entering the forest is being hunted and killed on sight. Sentinels shows no mercy for any Horde, be it orc, tauren or any kind of elf.
- Felwood is being slowly cleansed, large parts of the forest are still tainted.
- Elves are now employing guerilla fights across regions of Kalimdor. They are sabotaging and assassinating various Horde assets in Azshara, Stonetalon, Barrens and Desolace. Those groups act on their own, but it is rumored that they are actually supported by Tyrande, but it has not been officialy confirmed.
- Moonglade is now back in hands of kaldorei and Nighthaven serves as a capital of night elves, as it did in ages past. Malfurion and Hamuul relocated Cenarion Circle, alongside most of Green Dragonflight, to the Hyjal Summit.
- Ruins of great city of Eldre'thalas has been reclaimed by kaldorei magi, backed up by sentinel army stationed on the coast of Feralas. They now control part of the city, while the other part is being overrun by Nightborne, who are also interested in ancient secrets hidden here.

The Cenarion Circle needs relocated to Moonglade. I don't honestly see Malfurion being ok with Tauren on Hyjal. The green dragonflight, on the other hand, definitely to Mt Hyjal summit.

[Accendor]

Night Elves
Night elves, are now crazy about regrowth (druids) and Development (Highborne led) - they harness their power fully, to protect their lands from ever being at the mercy of other races and to make sure they're race and civilization recover into a power house. It is not a drive for an empire, but rather that the places they call home will be restored and secure.

Amongst the night elves, the druids seek to regrow all the forests lost and heal lands, the Highborne lead efforts focused on restoring the ruins and as much of kaldorei civilization as possible. Highborne do not have the respect they took for granted in the pre-sundering era, so they are very focused on trying to prove they are the high calling they were once believed as. They engage with the rest of the world, and are known for having high standards almost as if "we'll teach you how to live the right way" They do this from their centre in Eldre'thalas - they rule western and northern Feralas spilling into much of desolace, but unlike Hyjal, they're far more engaged with the world, trade etc, and serve as the defacto night elf civilization on Kalimdor - while Hyjal is full of researchers, and is more considered a sacred capital - the Highborne study and utilise the Well, the druids the nature and the emerald dream through the tree, and a new Cathedral to Elune and primary HQ of the Order of Elune is built there. The Cathedral of Eternal night is the broken isle chapter, Nightborne and Val'Sharah priests that moved south operate it there - Elunites do pilgrimage to Hyjal, though it is mostly night elven. However CoEN has Nightborne, Fangfire worgen, Void elf races involved.


How the Various Night Elven Races/Groups look in 10.0
A new night elf grand Holy capital is on Mount Hyjal. It's the best location if you're going to build fully for the night elvs - but if you're not, it's the broken isles. Hyjal has the Well of Eternity, the Tree, the wild gods. Build a great city, and a temple, and there is lots of forest for miles around - it can serve as the central hub for the kaldorei moving forward.

•Highborne will have their all capital in Eldre'thalas [Alliance]
•Nightborne in Suramar [Horde]
•nazdorei in New Zin'Azshari - Nazjatar [TBD - but likely alliance, could be both]
•Fangfire Worgen (NElf one) - Shal'anir Val'Sharah [Alliance]

•Darnassian Capital - Hyjal

Hyjal capital would actually involve druid culture too amongst priest and Highborne. Yes Highborne will have a huge presence due to the well, druids because of the wild gods and trees, and Priests will have a temple built. And no, no tree city, Nordrassil and the surrounding forest is the tree portion, architecture is pre-sundering but full of nature and life as all aspects meet.

The capital on Hyjal, New Elundis, is not your typical city, sure, trade happens etc, but access is mostly through portal and with permission. There are very strict rules of behaviour and contect, and many no-go areas for visitors. The well of Eternity sacred to the night elves is there and is the frontier of arcane research and development, while the nature wild gods so revered by the night elven druids also reside there as a land deeply connected with nature. the restord forests are huge wild lands, but you can often see wild gods visiting the city, and the massive tree in the centre hosts many unique life forms as a gateway between the dream and the present.

To Spice Things Up - Shadowlands restored many a genocide
For population booms - you can credit Shadowlands for reversing many a genocide. Biggest beneficiaries are Night elves, Gnomes, High elves, Humans. Farondis and Ravencrest find themselves lucky beneficiaries by intervention of Elune. The orc and draenei booms come from Outland folk moving into Azeroth,

Thalassians
Silvermoon and Quel'thalas become a hotzone mess. The return of many of the fallen high elves as created a war of ideals, with half agreeing with the sin'dorei philosophy of going forward and half agreeing with the original Quel'dorei mandate. One thing they agree on is they're not killing each other. Eversong woods and Silvermoon tend to be blood elf dominated, while Ghostlands and former EPL tend to be high elf dominated. Ghostlands is healed, the Thalassians have a second city in the now restored EPL - but it is far from simple, there are disagreements all the time

- - - Updated - - -

Your Input and Your Prediction of the Future
Population increase from Shadowlands is the most effective and realistic way of replenishing the nations, explaining and giving the boosts you need to many of these areas, it also creates many interesting situations and ofc some former heroes returned. I haven't done all zones ofc. e.g. Dark Irons and Black Rock orcs? What would that look like?

It is very, very unlikely that Shadowlands will reverse the Genocide. This would make the already terrible story even worse and would have terrible impact on all future story telling. We already know that almost all deaths do not matter because everybody does come back all the time or we go to random places (like the Shadowlands) where we meet with them again. If a whole genocide get simply reversed, why should we ever care for anything again?
Nothing would matter ever again.

So I think its pretty clear that the dead stay dead. In that case your scenario for the night elves is also very unlikely. Their numbers have DRASTICALLY been reduced. We are talking about a race on the brink of extinction here. There are perhaps a few thousand left (if we are very generous here, most likely its even less).
The problem now is that night elves have family and reproduction structures that actually prettly closely resemble human ones. This means that 2 NEs usually have between one and three children, where less is more likely than more (so its more likely they have 1 or 2 children than that they have 3).
Before they lost their immortality, they reached their fully developed body and mind around the age of 300 years.
So lets be generous and say we have 2600 Night Elves left, that are exactly evenly distributed in a male/female ratio and everybody finds their perfect partner for reproduction (at this point we are basically already breeding them, but whatever, lets go on).
This now means that every pair needs to raise 4(!) children (already more than before) to double their current population. However, the first 300 years the new ones are basically Teenagers and while they could be used for cheap labor and as cannon fodder during war times, it is pretty obvious that younger can not contribute as much as the older ones. This also assumes that nobody dies anymore, not through combat, not through sickness, not through old age, not at all. And remember, one person dying has a severe impact of everything, because it actually takes 2 people out of the reproduction system, which means (worst case) 4 less children.
So in an absolut perfect world in 300 years we have 5200 Night Elves. Even at that point in time it does not really feel like they would be able to protect themselves anymore.

Realistically it will be a few thousand years before Night Elves could before a "powerhouse" again.

[Hellspawn]

So I think its pretty clear that the dead stay dead. In that case your scenario for the night elves is also very unlikely. Their numbers have DRASTICALLY been reduced. We are talking about a race on the brink of extinction here. There are perhaps a few thousand left (if we are very generous here, most likely its even less).
The problem now is that night elves have family and reproduction structures that actually prettly closely resemble human ones. This means that 2 NEs usually have between one and three children, where less is more likely than more (so its more likely they have 1 or 2 children than that they have 3).
Before they lost their immortality, they reached their fully developed body and mind around the age of 300 years.
So lets be generous and say we have 2600 Night Elves left, that are exactly evenly distributed in a male/female ratio and everybody finds their perfect partner for reproduction (at this point we are basically already breeding them, but whatever, lets go on).
This now means that every pair needs to raise 4(!) children (already more than before) to double their current population. However, the first 300 years the new ones are basically Teenagers and while they could be used for cheap labor and as cannon fodder during war times, it is pretty obvious that younger can not contribute as much as the older ones. This also assumes that nobody dies anymore, not through combat, not through sickness, not through old age, not at all. And remember, one person dying has a severe impact of everything, because it actually takes 2 people out of the reproduction system, which means (worst case) 4 less children.
So in an absolut perfect world in 300 years we have 5200 Night Elves. Even at that point in time it does not really feel like they would be able to protect themselves anymore.

Realistically it will be a few thousand years before Night Elves could before a "powerhouse" again.

Literally no genocide in wow had a major impact of story that followed after that. Only 2600 night elfs left? How many blood elfs are then left after warcraft3... 200?
Orcs settle over to Kalimdor with a couple of boats.. so how many Orcs are left after all these wars... 1000? 700? 100?

Night elfs body wise are grow up as fast as humans. The 300 years thing is only cultural.

[Kyphael]

Could not disagree more.

Blizz's problem is that they don't know how to write. Switching Tyrande out for someone else won't work any better.


Elune has FASCINATING potential if they'd just... stop trying to put on some kind of a twist like "Oooh she's a naaru" instead of actually adding DEPTH.

Making her 'arrogant' would be hugely out of character for a goddess that's supposed to be all about peace... but then has an aspect like the Night Warrior for when they need to cut loose.

If we go by Greek, Egyptian, or Nordic myth, Gods never pan out being the way humanity worshipped and imagined them to be. They can be arrogant, manipulative, almighty, and seldom peaceful and loving towards their creations, and really, those are the most interesting traits in a God when it comes to fiction. When there is a perfect relationship between creator and creation in fiction, it increases the chance of deus ex machina.

[Dimsum84]

I'm curious about Demon hunters. Since the legion is defeated and Illidan is not around anymore, would they dwindle in numbers? I don't follow the story well enough to know if they have a way to bolster their ranks.

[ravenmoon]

Could not disagree more.

Blizz's problem is that they don't know how to write. Switching Tyrande out for someone else won't work any better.


Elune has FASCINATING potential if they'd just... stop trying to put on some kind of a twist like "Oooh she's a naaru" instead of actually adding DEPTH.

Making her 'arrogant' would be hugely out of character for a goddess that's supposed to be all about peace... but then has an aspect like the Night Warrior for when they need to cut loose.

QFT .. I think blizzard has ruined a lot of charm of warcraft by trying <insert twists.

A lot of them have been good, but the majority have been unnecessary and ruined a lot of charm. Till this day I dont understand why trolls had to be cha ges to be the predecessors of elves., I literally think Metzen st one stage got mocked for copying LotR, and got carried away with introducing twists, he could have also gotten quite arrogant after all the praise that came his way for the wc3 story and the huge twist that was the Legion, the Night elves and the orcs being slaves to fel ..

[Skytotem]

If we go by Greek, Egyptian, or Nordic myth, Gods never pan out being the way humanity worshipped and imagined them to be. They can be arrogant, manipulative, almighty, and seldom peaceful and loving towards their creations, and really, those are the most interesting traits in a God when it comes to fiction. When there is a perfect relationship between creator and creation in fiction, it increases the chance of deus ex machina.

... Your wording makes no sense, we only know those gods BY the way they're worshiped and remembered in those texts. They weren't 'different' from how the people worshiped them pictured (Because they didn't exist), the people worshiping them knew they were assholes and expected it in many cases (I'd also argue that aside from Loki, the Norse were more benevolent than the Greeks gods, jury's out on the Egyptians but I don't think they were as bad either)


Whereas the nelfs have had a solid view of Elune and have for 10k+ Years, hell they had artifacts that let them talk to her. I think exploring Elune as a benevolent and powerful god that is either limited in how they intervene, or restrains themselves BECAUSE they don't want to end up either an asshole god or with people who are super dependent, is much more interesting than "SURPRISE! Your god is an asshole!" to the nelfs.

It's also a middle-finger to their playerbase and most importantly *does not jive with all of their depictions of Elune in the past*.

This just feels like you trying to force an edgy personal view on gods onto nelfs.

What would even be the aftermath? The nelfs take up anti-theism? Regress back to arcane focus? Double down on druidism? Take up 'the light' or 'the shadow' like half the other races at this point?

If you absolutely need Elune to be an 'asshole' somehow, the best thing to do would be to have one of her 'phases' (Like Night Warrior for new Moon or Mother Moon for full moon) be tied to arrogance and arcane in some way.

[Kyphael]

... Your wording makes no sense, we only know those gods BY the way they're worshiped and remembered in those texts. They weren't 'different' from how the people worshiped them pictured (Because they didn't exist), the people worshiping them knew they were assholes and expected it in many cases (I'd also argue that aside from Loki, the Norse were more benevolent than the Greeks gods, jury's out on the Egyptians but I don't think they were as bad either)


Whereas the nelfs have had a solid view of Elune and have for 10k+ Years, hell they had artifacts that let them talk to her. I think exploring Elune as a benevolent and powerful god that is either limited in how they intervene, or restrains themselves BECAUSE they don't want to end up either an asshole god or with people who are super dependent, is much more interesting than "SURPRISE! Your god is an asshole!" to the nelfs.

It's also a middle-finger to their playerbase and most importantly *does not jive with all of their depictions of Elune in the past*.

This just feels like you trying to force an edgy personal view on gods onto nelfs.

What would even be the aftermath? The nelfs take up anti-theism? Regress back to arcane focus? Double down on druidism? Take up 'the light' or 'the shadow' like half the other races at this point?

If you absolutely need Elune to be an 'asshole' somehow, the best thing to do would be to have one of her 'phases' (Like Night Warrior for new Moon or Mother Moon for full moon) be tied to arrogance and arcane in some way.

Elune being a benevolent deity really serves no purpose to the overall story since writing is predicated on conflict as a fabric of existence. Without conflict there is no purpose. What is her role as a benevolent Goddess? Pep talks? Cheerleader? Divine intervention in night elf conflicts would be paramount to deus ex machina. The character would be best positioned as a tragic fall from grace. Just because she has been quietly depicted one way for "10,000 years", does not mean she can't pull a 180 and the Night Warrior phase and ritual could be a preview of such a change.

The path night elves can take after having to kill their God are limitless, you listed them yourself and none would be worse than the night elf lore we've gotten in WoW the last 15 years.

Middle finger to the player base? This is a work of fiction. Whether or not the "player base" will get upset Elune is turned into a malevolent deity should never cross a writer's mind. They aren't writing fan fiction.

[Skytotem]

Elune being a benevolent deity really serves no purpose to the overall story since writing is predicated on conflict as a fabric of existence.

Without conflict there is no purpose. What is her role as a benevolent Goddess? Pep talks? Cheerleader? Divine intervention in night elf conflicts would be paramount to deus ex machina. The character would be best positioned as a tragic fall from grace. Just because she has been quietly depicted one way for "10,000 years", does not mean she can't pull a 180 and the Night Warrior phase and ritual could be a preview of such a change.

The path night elves can take after having to kill their God are limitless, you listed them yourself and none would be worse than the night elf lore we've gotten in WoW the last 15 years.

Middle finger to the player base? This is a work of fiction. Whether or not the "player base" will get upset Elune is turned into a malevolent deity should never cross a writer's mind. They aren't writing fan fiction.

1. This is not NECESSARILY true (it's often overstated or misinterpreted) Since There are plenty of other conflicts to be had and many TYPES of conflict. You can have conflict between religious sects. Conflict between allies that never erupts into violence. Conflict between friends disagreeing on best course of action.

Seeing the only avenue as Night Elves killing their goddess because "WHAT A TWEEST, ELUNE WAS EVIL ALL ALONG" is just more of the same kneejerk plot-twisty nonsense we've seen from Blizzard. It's low effort.

2. The way you talk about Elune you treat her like a faction leader or a military commander rather than a Deity. She doesn't need to be directly involved in the narrative, nelfs just need Blizz to do a deeper dive into their religious traditions and the kinds of powers she can give, the ideology around the sects, etc... There's a lot to explore with the wardens and priestesses of the moon and how the moonkin and Cenarion-Keepers/Dryads and Elune's fascinating mix of Arcane/Star/Shadow magics and you just... want to go 'she's evil, kill her' and toss all that away?

*Why?*

3. I disagree. All the options I listed would be regressive, they would only weaken and diminish the night elves. They REDUCE their number of themes rather than expanding on one that's been too long neglected.

4. Even if you don't subscribe to the idea that writing should be at least partly for the people who play and enjoy the game, it's bad writing to turn Elune from a benevolent goddess into a malicious or arrogant one just for the sake of short term conflict.

[ravenmoon]

... Your wording makes no sense, we only know those gods BY the way they're worshiped and remembered in those texts. They weren't 'different' from how the people worshiped them pictured (Because they didn't exist), the people worshiping them knew they were assholes and expected it in many cases (I'd also argue that aside from Loki, the Norse were more benevolent than the Greeks gods, jury's out on the Egyptians but I don't think they were as bad either)


Whereas the nelfs have had a solid view of Elune and have for 10k+ Years, hell they had artifacts that let them talk to her. I think exploring Elune as a benevolent and powerful god that is either limited in how they intervene, or restrains themselves BECAUSE they don't want to end up either an asshole god or with people who are super dependent, is much more interesting than "SURPRISE! Your god is an asshole!" to the nelfs.

It's also a middle-finger to their playerbase and most importantly *does not jive with all of their depictions of Elune in the past*.

This just feels like you trying to force an edgy personal view on gods onto nelfs.

What would even be the aftermath? The nelfs take up anti-theism? Regress back to arcane focus? Double down on druidism? Take up 'the light' or 'the shadow' like half the other races at this point?

If you absolutely need Elune to be an 'asshole' somehow, the best thing to do would be to have one of her 'phases' (Like Night Warrior for new Moon or Mother Moon for full moon) be tied to arrogance and arcane in some way.

Agreed. Blizzard doing the arsehole thing with Elune is just disappointing, cliched and I dont think the sort of thing most fans of the night elves want.

Remember, people who love night elves tend to love all the key facets of the race, even if they have favourites. And while this isn6t everyone, it is most.

People clearly hated the idea of Elune being a fraud too, there was anger at the suggestion she was a Greater Naaru, and no enthusiasm at guesses she might be an old god.

It smacked of the usual disappointing trend concerning night elves which was say one thing in WC3, whether manual or game and the WotA book then destroy it or cheapen it to near rubbish levels in wow.

Yeh fans dont like that, and all the brownie points earned with horde fans for wiping the floor with night elves usually amounts to nothing, Cata stunning victories over night elves were pretty 'meh, whatever' to most horde fans and devastating to many night elf fans - and then everyone hated the constant mistreatment of night elves. It made the horde strong and powerful looking, but also evil and cruel...most horde fans actually wanted victory over humans, not beautiful forest and magic loving night elves who are written as been watching and protecting g Azeroth for 10k years.

Many may have switched to horde for better racials or prettier Belf models, but they still liked the Nighf elf race and found it sucky how they get being trashed on.

Ofc blizz can do what they want, but certain moves are both unnecessary and a noying to fans

[Kyphael]

1. This is not NECESSARILY true (it's often overstated or misinterpreted) Since There are plenty of other conflicts to be had and many TYPES of conflict. You can have conflict between religious sects. Conflict between allies that never erupts into violence. Conflict between friends disagreeing on best course of action.

Seeing the only avenue as Night Elves killing their goddess because "WHAT A TWEEST, ELUNE WAS EVIL ALL ALONG" is just more of the same kneejerk plot-twisty nonsense we've seen from Blizzard. It's low effort.

2. The way you talk about Elune you treat her like a faction leader or a military commander rather than a Deity. She doesn't need to be directly involved in the narrative, nelfs just need Blizz to do a deeper dive into their religious traditions and the kinds of powers she can give, the ideology around the sects, etc... There's a lot to explore with the wardens and priestesses of the moon and how the moonkin and Cenarion-Keepers/Dryads and Elune's fascinating mix of Arcane/Star/Shadow magics and you just... want to go 'she's evil, kill her' and toss all that away?

*Why?*

3. I disagree. All the options I listed would be regressive, they would only weaken and diminish the night elves. They REDUCE their number of themes rather than expanding on one that's been too long neglected.

4. Even if you don't subscribe to the idea that writing should be at least partly for the people who play and enjoy the game, it's bad writing to turn Elune from a benevolent goddess into a malicious or arrogant one just for the sake of short term conflict.

You bring up good points and I see them all. We just have polar opposite stances on what we think the most interesting venue would be for night elf lore. Her death could be a new beginning, that's how I view it, and perhaps Malfurion could ascend to Godhood to fill that gap once Elune slain, and become the new night elf God, shifting focus from priesthood to druidism, but I'm just rambling at this point. I'm just a firm believer that in order for there to be a new beginning, something has to end, and symbolically, what is there bigger for the night elves to end than Elune?

[Skytotem]

You bring up good points and I see them all. We just have polar opposite stances on what we think the most interesting venue would be for night elf lore. Her death could be a new beginning, that's how I view it, and perhaps Malfurion could ascend to Godhood to fill that gap once Elune slain, and become the new night elf God, shifting focus from priesthood to druidism, but I'm just rambling at this point. I'm just a firm believer that in order for there to be a new beginning, something has to end, and symbolically, what is there bigger for the night elves to end than Elune?

Druidism is ALREADY overshadowing the priestesses and sentinels and such when it comes to the nelfs, which is part of the problem. They made all the interesting parts of the nelfs neutral (Like wardens in Legion)

Blizz's writers treat the druids like hippies and don't understand how to balance that with the priestesses or other groups.

In an ideal world, Nelfs would balance a harsher Priesthood (Sentinels, Wardens, Night Warrior stuff) , with traditional (but not hippie/pushover) druids and progressive yet strictly managed arcane casters (progressive by nelf standards, I still see Alliance as more conservative with their magic) resurgent Moonguard/Eldre'thalas Highborne (Mordent Evenshade, Estulan, etc)


Making Malf into a god would fare about as well as making Thrall into the 'Earth Warder' in Legion did. Everyone would hate it for shoving him into a bigger spotlight when he was floundering in his old role already.

The whole thing with Alliance races is that they're generally better off DEEPENING their themes and rising to take up the mantle of those who came up before them, more... "Return to Glory" Storylines (Humans recapturing the prominence of their older kingdoms, Dwarves looking into the titans, and nelfs cleaning up their tainted forests to return the power of their wild gods)

Horde benefits from more dramatic changes, but for the Alliance it kills the themes that made them interesting in the first place. BOTH factions are hurt by reducing the variety in the group, or regression to earlier themes (Like Calia trying to turn the Forsaken into humans with a skin condition and light focus, like Lordaeron never fell)

[ashblond]

Protoss, Terran, Zerg, etc.

It really depends on how big the timeskip is.

[Mace]

It is very, very unlikely that Shadowlands will reverse the Genocide. This would make the already terrible story even worse and would have terrible impact on all future story telling. We already know that almost all deaths do not matter because everybody does come back all the time or we go to random places (like the Shadowlands) where we meet with them again. If a whole genocide get simply reversed, why should we ever care for anything again?
Nothing would matter ever again.

So I think its pretty clear that the dead stay dead. In that case your scenario for the night elves is also very unlikely. Their numbers have DRASTICALLY been reduced. We are talking about a race on the brink of extinction here. There are perhaps a few thousand left (if we are very generous here, most likely its even less).
The problem now is that night elves have family and reproduction structures that actually prettly closely resemble human ones. This means that 2 NEs usually have between one and three children, where less is more likely than more (so its more likely they have 1 or 2 children than that they have 3).
Before they lost their immortality, they reached their fully developed body and mind around the age of 300 years.
So lets be generous and say we have 2600 Night Elves left, that are exactly evenly distributed in a male/female ratio and everybody finds their perfect partner for reproduction (at this point we are basically already breeding them, but whatever, lets go on).
This now means that every pair needs to raise 4(!) children (already more than before) to double their current population. However, the first 300 years the new ones are basically Teenagers and while they could be used for cheap labor and as cannon fodder during war times, it is pretty obvious that younger can not contribute as much as the older ones. This also assumes that nobody dies anymore, not through combat, not through sickness, not through old age, not at all. And remember, one person dying has a severe impact of everything, because it actually takes 2 people out of the reproduction system, which means (worst case) 4 less children.
So in an absolut perfect world in 300 years we have 5200 Night Elves. Even at that point in time it does not really feel like they would be able to protect themselves anymore.

Realistically it will be a few thousand years before Night Elves could before a "powerhouse" again.

That's true if the dead are not returned. But I think all that will affect is the scale and rate of their improvement. I still think they'd be on Hyjal, and they'd be employing both the Well of Eternity and the Emerald Dream to be able to protect their people.

in this case, the night elf NPCs would be extremely powerful having the Night warrior ritual boost, the Well of Eternity to use and the power of the Emerald Dream wielded in the natural through the Nordrassil connection.

This is likely how the Night elves would be able to secure impossible large swathes of land, despite such few numbers and give the security needed for their race to rebuild and replenish it's numbers.

I don't see them going on the offensive - they don't have the numbers for it, and it's not their character - I think the offensive ends with Sylvanas brought to justice, but the Night elves would be far more punishing of missteps in their zone than they use to - almost like the Long vigil era, but this time not direct against arcane users but against intruders

- - - Updated - - -

Also regarding the 300 year teenager rule, things would change. Night elves grow to maturity like most races, i.e. in actual teenage years, so they're reproductive at 16-18, it's just that because they're much longer lived, it's like 300 years is sort of viewed like still being a teenager - as in quite young and haven't seen the sorrows we have.

You have to factor in for the differences between elves and humans - their character, much healthier mindsets, for more particular and perfectionist too, and they teach their children well - there isn't that broken parent/child relationship or rebellion issues, they also learn a lot faster being psychologically well put together and highly intelligent too

With the arcane returned and tapping the emerald dream - both intelligence and longevity would be boosted, a lot of that aging would now slow to a crawl again - but their intelligent and quick reactivity would make the Night elves start focusing on birth rates, family etc, rebuilding their lives. In someways I predict it's very similar to the Long vigil but in other ways very different.

they'd need to be strong and an international power house too - a pseudo isolation would occur and they have the diversity to handle it. While the military patrols of the Long vigil return, but this time to guard and protect their lands from invasion should the horde races get funny ideas again, there is a need for both family and civilization. The power of the well and the dream allow for a far grater independence than before, but they cannot cut themselves off from international affairs either and be blind.

The priests handle military and leadership affaris mainly. The highborne handle research and development bringing the arcane advantage, the Druids grow, protect and enhance nature the other half of the night elves but they do so with other druidic races..which is why I say it's a pseudo isolation.

It's mostly highborne that deal with stuff abroad alongside priests - state affairs are often lead by priests, but magical affairs have a strong influence on the races of the world, the Highborne presence in Dalaran an international centre is vital, as the wizards are actually sort of like both the U.N and shadow council of the world, and you want to be there to play a role in ensuring the relationship between races doesn't become a threat to the world itself.

[kaintk]

option 1: blizzard take this opportunity and release WoW 2 with better engine and all (reboot the game ? or maybe years after event to shadowland)

option 2: no more factions, hord and ally can be put together or fight each other (in pvp)

yes , i love to dream, but i dont think blizzard would have the courage to do one of those

but a thing like 20-30 years (hell, even 100-200 years, why not ?:P)have passed when the hero return could be cool

i really hope that blizzard will not drop the ball if the timeskip is real and not a fantasy thing coming from the fans

[Soon-TM]

Well in my timeskip, Shadowlands restores many genocided populations

No. Restoring killed populaces out of thin air would be such a cheap cop out that not even Danuser would dare resort to. It would rob the story of its biggest moments of drama, be it the Scourge advance onto the Plaguelands, the Path of Glory or the Burning of Teldrassil. I mean, why would you bring back the HEs killed by the Scourge, and not e.g. the Draenei slaughtered in Outland?

Just no.

[Hugnomo]

Okay I like this thread, I'll give it a go.

Dwarves
- Moira's son Dagran ascends, or is in the process of ascending to the throne. Shadowforge becomes an actual city for dark irons. Same for Aerie Peaks. The Council remain as advisors to the young king.

Gnomes
- With Mechagnomes and gnomes united as one people, either they all relocate to Mechagon, or most likely, completely take and rebuild Gnomeragan. Maybe trains connecting both cities, as has been suggested by posters here.

Worgen
- Retake Gilneas. Tess becomes the new queen of Gilneas. Genn is like a hundred years old, though I don't know how his death would be handled. Him dying off screen seems wrong.

Draenei
- Rebuild Exodar floating over the Azuremist isles. The Vindicar hovering next to it. Actual cities in the area, using the assets from wod like Karabor, Shattrath, Auchindoun, etc.

Humans
- So I was thinking Anduin and Taelia get together, but with him in the shadowlands and her in azeroth, it might be complicated in this time skip scenario. Stormwind still the capital city. Stromgarde returns to the Trollbanes, Dalaran becomes a human/alliance kingdom again.

Night elves
- Build a capital city in Hyjal, on or under Nordrassil. Temples to the Wild Gods restored, with them present in all their glory in the same way that the zandalari loa or the pandaren celestials live in communion with their people.

Void Elves
- They build an actual city in Telogrus Rift, or settle and build on a void related area, like one of the old god prisons

Orcs
- Orgrimmar still the capital. Thrall is in the shadowlands, so Eitrigg has held leadership. Fleshed out clans. Frost wolves in Alterac with Drek'thar (or he dies, because he's also very old). Mag'har build an actual iron horde like city for themselves in Stonetalon. Wod assets with the amazing aesthetic and themes of the industrial iron horde.

Darkspear
- Kinda would love to see a grown up Zekhan surprise us by becoming the leader all these years later, having been inspired to climb the ranks and assume leadership of his people. But Rokhan seems most likely, even though it doesn't feel as good to me because he's been given so little development and spotlight.
- Zandalari unite the troll empire once more.
- Darkspear move to Nazmir and build a city next to their main loa's temple, now that the threat of the blood trolls is gone. We know loas that they worship are coming back, and are thematically fitting or belonging to that area. Either that, or build an actual city in the Echo Isles, but they'd have to make it bigger.

Forsaken
- Calia grows among the ranks of the forsaken through her help and guidance, who ultimately embrace her as their true queen and heir to Lordaeron.
- She raises the Desolate Council who were unjustly murdered, and gives them the opportunity to reconnect to their families, in the way that they were denied in the book.
- Cleanses and reclaims Lordaeron for the Forsaken.
- Her help with Delaryn Summermoon's Night Elf forsaken earns her their loyalty. (opportunity for a forsaken rig allied race in pre-patch, but just wishful thinking, could include both high elf forsaken and night elf forsaken)

Tauren
- Not much to say. Hd thunderbluff remake would be amazing. Though I guess Baine is also in the shadowlands, so they'd have to nominate temporary leadership. And I don't know any character that could serve that purpose.

Goblins
Actual city for them. Make it Crapapolis in Kezan, but expanded. Or make it expanded Ratchet since Gazlowe is the new leader. Or Undermine if it still exists.

Blood Elves
Rebuild Quel'thalas. Make Quel'danas easily accessible for visiting the sunwell.

[Soon-TM]

Druidism is ALREADY overshadowing the priestesses and sentinels and such when it comes to the nelfs, which is part of the problem. They made all the interesting parts of the nelfs neutral (Like wardens in Legion)

Well, that's pretty much the name of the song. Alliance loses its most interesting figures and organisations, since they become neutral (Wardens, Silver Hand, Cenarion Circle, Kirin Tor), while Horde also loses major figures - and gets nothing in replacement. Unless one wants to seriously argue that e.g. Calia is actually "Horde".