We should've gotten rework on talent tree talents.

[justandulas]

I honestly don't get it. Did people not complain enough about classes in BfA? When are they planning to move away from this nonsensical design? Aren't two expansions enough to end this weird experiment?

Problem is the diablo 3 team moved over to wow during legion and now everything has to play like diablo for them. From talents, to the rental abilities, to the seasonal feel etc

They only know how to turn wow into diablo 3 the mmo arpg, and not make WoW the rpg better. Every patch they move wow further away from its roots and further into diablo 3 territory

[kaminaris]

When a majority of the community disagrees with you, that's a big yikes man.

A imaginatory "majority". No point reading further when first sentence is logical fallacy.

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I don't know a single human that would agree with you on MoP class design.

Then you must have never read any topic of class design during MoP and later on.

[GucciWarr]

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I don't know a single human that would agree with you on MoP class design. I remember logging on one character and seeing someone having fun on their Hunter so I switch over have fun with that. Then grab my Lock, go PvP and have fun. I loved just playing my classes in MoP and to a slightly lesser extent, WoD. Classes today feel like boring garbage thanks to everything being so gutted and watered down. Say what you want but I had so much fun in MoP doing the dumbest stuff simply because I enjoyed my characters gameplay.

I didn't need some mindless, boring, endless grind to get me to log on in. I logged because the game was fun. Retail WoW has lost the "fun".

I agree with that guy MoP wasn't interesting class design at all, nothing is cool about who manages button bloat better. All the spergs are like MY DEEP CLASS KNOWLEDGE but in reality it was more of a shit show than bfa class design, I feel like people who flame class design get their char from 110-118 and then are like MEH blizz SUCKS, got to get back on MUHNILLA

[Nerovar]

Problem is the diablo 3 team moved over to wow during legion and now everything has to play like diablo for them. From talents, to the rental abilities, to the seasonal feel etc

They only know how to turn wow into diablo 3 the mmo arpg, and not make WoW the rpg better. Every patch they move wow further away from its roots and further into diablo 3 territory

Yeah, that's why I'm unsubscribed since early BfA.

[Sunslayer]

A imaginatory "majority". No point reading further when first sentence is logical fallacy.

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Then you must have never read any topic of class design during MoP and later on.

I wasn't on the forums during MoP was too busy having fun playing the game with my guild and friends. All of which quit and n BfA for garbage class design and the game not being fun. I know about 30 people between my Btags and irl friends and all have quit in BfA. Hopefully Shadowlands is good but I'm not holding my breath.

[OFiveNine]

The old talent system was illusion of choice too. It just sucks needing all these azerite traits/legion artifacts to make a class feel playable because they created problems for the azerite/artifact to fix.

Personally i'd like to see a talent-esque system that stemmed off a classes abilities innately. So for example with rogue you choose mutilate and the first 2 talents to choose from are something like half the GCD or reduced x-amount of energy needed to cast mutilate

[Sunslayer]

Talents would be better if they actually competed with one another. Example:
Talent A: Divine steed also grants Hand of Freedom
Talent B: Divine steed has 2 charges
Talent C: Divine steed grants 20% DR for it's duration

Also, there are too many "must pick" talents, such as Ele Shaman, Echo of Elements.

Also, too many dead talents that have been dead for ridiculous amounts of time. Such as, Holy Paladins Lights Hammer and Holy Prism. Those 2 talents have been grossly under-tuned since they were created nearly 10 years ago. How sad is that?

[kaminaris]

I wasn't on the forums during MoP was too busy having fun playing the game with my guild and friends. All of which quit and n BfA for garbage class design and the game not being fun. I know about 30 people between my Btags and irl friends and all have quit in BfA. Hopefully Shadowlands is good but I'm not holding my breath.

All my friends quit during MoP, couple came back in BfA. I was too busy complaining on forums and playing other games in MoP.

[Hey There Guys its Metro]

Many new talents have been added so far.
Maybe more to come? Maybe not though, as Class stuff seems to be pretty stationary recently.

[natpick]

There are certainly talent rows that have only one real choice regardless of the level you play at, but to say that's the majority isn't true

dont know if you have played a hunter but try have a look at the hunter tree imho there are terrible,specifically the mm tree,when i look at them i just think wtf is this for choice.

[Sunslayer]

All my friends quit during MoP, couple came back in BfA. I was too busy complaining on forums and playing other games in MoP.

Well, statistics show you aren't the Majority. MoP had mountains of subs. BfA doesn't. Do you really think they added CRZ in current content because the game is doing well? MoP didn't need current content CRZ to populate the zones. But, you'll ignore all common sense and keep going with being a fan of having 9 abilities on your bar. I'm done arguing with you. Argue with yourself from here on out.

[kaminaris]

Well, statistics show you aren't the Majority.

You don't have statistics.

[gpunk]

Sorry Bennet but show me a Demonhunter with no First Blood or Demonic. Some Talents are always good, hell they are the epitome of the whole class and you must "Choose" them. DH hast one of the worst talent trees with VDH Soulbomb your whole Tankdmg baked in on talent and so on. To many talents are Filler with no real purpose.

I cannot for the life of me understand why blade dance doesn’t function as if you had the first blood and trail of ruin baseline. What are you supposed to do, just spam chaos strike endlessly?

[Aphrel]

im so looking forward to another expansion standing in a rune. Its gonna be great!

[DemonDays]

Also, if you care about optimising you're not playing MM

You don't find this to be an issue at all? That entire specs are basically dead?

Not only is MM terrible DPS wise but it's also clunky as all fuck.

[Clozer]

This thread in a nutshell:

One talent is worse by less than 1% = unusable trash and no more a choice!

For most classes it's fine. People just tend to play what's best. This has been the case since forever. Back in the days, 90% of people ran the same exact tree, just like 90% of people today choose the same "best" talents.

[DemonDays]

This thread in a nutshell:

One talent is worse by less than 1% = unusable trash and no more a choice!

For most classes it's fine. People just tend to play what's best. This has been the case since forever. Back in the days, 90% of people ran the same exact tree, just like 90% of people today choose the same "best" talents.

1%.

HAHAHAHAHA. Try 15-20%.

[Clozer]

Well, statistics show you aren't the Majority. MoP had mountains of subs. BfA doesn't. Do you really think they added CRZ in current content because the game is doing well? MoP didn't need current content CRZ to populate the zones. But, you'll ignore all common sense and keep going with being a fan of having 9 abilities on your bar. I'm done arguing with you. Argue with yourself from here on out.

They introduced CRZ/sharding actually for the opposite reason. Not to populate zones, but make sure there are not too many players for the servers to struggle. Look at WoW Classic as a prime example.

[Roujeaux]

You would think they would just do a Talent System 3.0 revamp that added an endgame talent tree component with temporary, progressive scaling that needed to be refueled/upgraded like gear each expansion, instead of adding these endless, expansion based external rental powers. Maybe that's too difficult for them to do.

[Saltysquidoon]

This thread in a nutshell:

One talent is worse by less than 1% = unusable trash and no more a choice!

In the closest fight to patchwerk first blood and demonic are taken 100% of the time on heroic and mythic difficulty and never less than 99% of the time across all difficulties.

If you think I'm cherry-picking feel free to look up other fights.

For most classes it's fine. People just tend to play what's best. This has been the case since forever. Back in the days, 90% of people ran the same exact tree, just like 90% of people today choose the same "best" talents.

Except that was literally the point of the 'new' system was to fix that. Talents like first blood or ossuary or WDP literally should not exist.

I'm not saying every talent has to have a use case every patch, but it is entirely indefensible to argue that it is acceptable for talents (like the ones listed above) to be the best in all situations in all forms of content since they were introduced in legion.

Riot can release a patch every three weeks, you're telling me blizzard can't nerf/rework/buff a talent in four years?