Is SL the first WoW expansion not hanging on WC2 & 3's coattails?

[Super Kami Dende]

I did. You got a brief story blurb of exposition before each mission and then you did the mission, there wasn't a ton of storytelling in the actual game. Maybe in the manual. But the game itself, not really.

Yeah I deleted that after I realised that most of the pre-Cata DW stuff was from the Novels that I had basically just entwined with the game in my head.

[Kelathos]

I don't think anyone takes MOP seriously since Metzen himself disowned it on stage by saying "now that the time of the whymsical pandas is over" (didn't even call them pandaren, called them whymsical pandas).
It's also one of the expansions that lost the most players base of the total playerbase at the time, from start to finish, with maybe 2-3 months where it actually gained back ~100k players.

Those were Cataclysm losses for when the 12 month "Diablo 3 Bonus" sub expired.
I was one of them. Pandaria eventually brought me back to WoW and is among the best content WoW ever had.

[Varodoc]

I don't think anyone takes MOP seriously since Metzen himself disowned it on stage by saying "now that the time of the whymsical pandas is over" (didn't even call them pandaren, called them whymsical pandas).
It's also one of the expansions that lost the most players base of the total playerbase at the time, from start to finish, with maybe 2-3 months where it actually gained back ~100k players.
For me personally, that expansion doesn't even exist, since pretty much none of its events or characters make any important appearance in the subsequent expansions. Wrathion does, and he's just a Mary Sue a la Thrall in Cataclysm.

As for some main characters coming back...they're just characters, but the world itself of the Shadowlands, and its inhabitants and events, have never seem to be remotely reference in the RTSes.

You do realize MoP might be the most important expansion in WoW's story, right? WoD happened because Garrosh wanted revenge on Azeroth for his defeat at SoO. WoD then caused Legion when Gul'dan was sent to the Tomb of Sargeras, Legion caused BfA when Sargeras stabbed the planet, and BfA caused Shadowlands when Sylvanas broke the veil between life and death.

MoP literally set in motion this long and convoluted chain of events that led to where we are now, in 9.0. You objectively cant consider it non-canon.

[Darththeo]

Those were Cataclysm losses for when the 12 month "Diablo 3 Bonus" sub expired.
I was one of them. Pandaria eventually brought me back to WoW and is among the best content WoW ever had.

Yeah, MoP seemed bad when announced and launched, but is definitely more fun than people realize.

---

On topic and kind has already been said, if MoP can't count because of a single character (Chen), than Shadowlands really doesn't count as it includes several characters from Warcraft III, including Sylvanas being of some significance importance while Chen wasn't that big to Mists (he was there, but wasn't hugely important to most of the story).

Sylvanas is way more important to the Shadowlands story than Chen was to Mists AND we have several Chen level Warcraft III characters. And if you argue that Mists had faction war, well, that is pretty much everything is Warcraft and we are just going into another state of Cold War/Armistice, which has existed before.

[Varodoc]

Is Shadowlands' world the first which has really no threads nor mention in the RTS games?

Also, this is wrong. If you want to get technical, the Shadowlands are mentioned in WC3, when Uther tells Arthas that he will go to hell. And indeed at the beginning of Shadowlands we visit the Maw, which is the Jailer's realm and the closest thing to "Hell" in the Warcraft universe.

[Venziir]

Since WC2 barely had any storytelling, Deathwing was a bunch of pixels with a forgettable motive and generic personality. Cataclysm and the novels gave him a character. As for N'Zoth, he was not a footnote in Cataclysm. He is literally the one behind Deathwing's return.

He still wasn't IN the actual expansion, he served as the unseen mastermind. It wasn't even made clear back then, that he was the Old God directly behind Deathwing's return, that was clarified much later.

[Varodoc]

He still wasn't IN the actual expansion, he served as the unseen mastermind. It wasn't even made clear back then, that he was the Old God directly behind Deathwing's return, that was clarified much later.

His armies formed the bulk of the assault force that attacked Wyrmrest Temple during the climactic showdown of the expansion. What further evidence did you need at the time?

[Chonar]

I don't think anyone takes MOP seriously since Metzen himself disowned it on stage by saying "now that the time of the whymsical pandas is over" (didn't even call them pandaren, called them whymsical pandas).

This is a bad take. Metzen pandered (hehe) to a playerbase hoping for a more serious expansion, because said playerbase couldnt see past the pandaland exterior and actually pay attention to MoP's story, which was actually pretty fucking good, yet never given a chance.

[ryanmahaffe]

I don't think anyone takes MOP seriously since Metzen himself disowned it on stage by saying "now that the time of the whymsical pandas is over" (didn't even call them pandaren, called them whymsical pandas).
It's also one of the expansions that lost the most players base of the total playerbase at the time, from start to finish, with maybe 2-3 months where it actually gained back ~100k players.
For me personally, that expansion doesn't even exist, since pretty much none of its events or characters make any important appearance in the subsequent expansions. Wrathion does, and he's just a Mary Sue a la Thrall in Cataclysm.

As for some main characters coming back...they're just characters, but the world itself of the Shadowlands, and its inhabitants and events, have never seem to be remotely reference in the RTSes.

So what you are saying is that it is the only expansion to gain subscribers since cataclysm during it's life cycle.
Yet nobody cares about it? Alright lol.

[vertigo12]

Everything from Illidan to Arthas to Burning Legion to Azshara and many other themes/characters were subjects built upon WC2 and mainly WC3's missions and lore manuals included in the box (which were later expanded/butchered, depending how you look at it).

Is Shadowlands' world the first which has really no threads nor mention in the RTS games?

It feels kind of liberating.

SL is WotLK 2.0

[Michael Jackson]

This is a bad take. Metzen pandered (hehe) to a playerbase hoping for a more serious expansion, because said playerbase couldnt see past the pandaland exterior and actually pay attention to MoP's story, which was actually pretty fucking good, yet never given a chance.

The sub-stories in pandaria were good (things like the massacres by the Yaungol and the Klaxi shit), the Garrosh story arc was good, Wandering Isle intro was also very good, and other things.

However the presentation was mired down by the hihihi i'm a fat fuck panda slow down oooker in the dooker moneys muh emotiunz shalalaa you know nothing outsider we're so smart you're so dumb btw thanks for saving us from dying from the Legion like 3 times now.

The pandaren, like the vulpera, are just goofy looking. You take a look at them and if you didn't know they were WoW characters you'd think they were one of those Pay2Win Tencent games MMO races. Mix that with the paragraph above and you have a cacophony of an expansion that polarizes itself between extreme goofiness and really dark shit.

The fact that the entire expansion was a huge copy paste of Chinese folklore and history with another skin was also really tiresome. They could have mixed together Asian cultures, but it was just China China China, because they hoped they'd gain Chinese players after Cacaclysm massive drop in players.

In this respect, you look at Vulpera, and other than their goofy shitty looks, they have a really great setting. A huge ass snake temple in the desert? That's a really cool mix. It's actually intersting. If the race itself didn't look like a 5 year old's cartoon art I'd actually be interested in playing it.

[Armourboy]

I'd say MoP more so than Cata or SL. The only tie MoP to Warcraft at all really was Chen and the race itself. Deathwing wasn't heavilied used, but Hyjal was a major part of WC3 and Cata.

SL is really a continuation of wC3 tbh.

[Venziir]

The sub-stories in pandaria were good (things like the massacres by the Yaungol and the Klaxi shit), the Garrosh story arc was good, Wandering Isle intro was also very good, and other things.

However the presentation was mired down by the hihihi i'm a fat fuck panda slow down oooker in the dooker moneys muh emotiunz shalalaa you know nothing outsider we're so smart you're so dumb btw thanks for saving us from dying from the Legion like 3 times now.

The pandaren, like the vulpera, are just goofy looking. You take a look at them and if you didn't know they were WoW characters you'd think they were one of those Pay2Win Tencent games MMO races. Mix that with the paragraph above and you have a cacophony of an expansion that polarizes itself between extreme goofiness and really dark shit.

The fact that the entire expansion was a huge copy paste of Chinese folklore and history with another skin was also really tiresome. They could have mixed together Asian cultures, but it was just China China China, because they hoped they'd gain Chinese players after Cacaclysm massive drop in players.

In this respect, you look at Vulpera, and other than their goofy shitty looks, they have a really great setting. A huge ass snake temple in the desert? That's a really cool mix. It's actually intersting. If the race itself didn't look like a 5 year old's cartoon art I'd actually be interested in playing it.

China eh? The yaungul were based on the mongol hordes, Krasarang was based around Cambodia, Kun-Lai was inspired by Nepal and Tibet. The Mantid vs Shado-Pan conflict was a spin on the White Walkers vs The Night's Watch from A Game of Thrones. The history of monk combat (slaves not being allowed weaponry) was based upon the origin of capoeira and finally there's Ra'den who is based upon a Japanese Thunder God.... So no, it's nost just "ChInA!".

[melzas]

Weird conclusion, seeing as SL main story concentrates around Sylvanas, a W3 hero...

And yeah, first truly original WoW setting would be MoP a side quest character with 0 lore is the only thing that connects it with TFT.

[Queen of Hamsters]

China eh? The yaungul were based on the mongol hordes, Krasarang was based around Cambodia, Kun-Lai was inspired by Nepal and Tibet. The Mantid vs Shado-Pan conflict was a spin on the White Walkers vs The Night's Watch from A Game of Thrones. The history of monk combat (slaves not being allowed weaponry) was based upon the origin of capoeira and finally there's Ra'den who is based upon a Japanese Thunder God.... So no, it's nost just "ChInA!".

Indeed. He is just as ignorant as the rest who childishly dismissed MoP on account of Pandas.

Metzen didn't disown shit, MoP had some of the best writing this game ever saw.

[Venziir]

Indeed. He is just as ignorant as the rest who childishly dismissed MoP on account of Pandas.

Metzen didn't disown shit, MoP had some of the best writing this game ever saw.

What's "funny" about all this, is that MoP is 8 years old. You'd think that people would've moved on, but nope - it's still "panda lul".

[Saltysquidoon]

Is Shadowlands' world the first which has really no threads nor mention in the RTS games?

Uther, Kael'thas and Lady Vashj are in it so no?

If you really want to be pedantic about it every expansion has featured something from the RTS series.

Cool bit of trivia, the main complaint people had about vanilla during vanilla was it had nothing to do with the RTS series, which is how we got TBC where they basically made every single character a raid boss in a classic blizzard over correction.

[Protar95]

The sub-stories in pandaria were good (things like the massacres by the Yaungol and the Klaxi shit), the Garrosh story arc was good, Wandering Isle intro was also very good, and other things.

However the presentation was mired down by the hihihi i'm a fat fuck panda slow down oooker in the dooker moneys muh emotiunz shalalaa you know nothing outsider we're so smart you're so dumb btw thanks for saving us from dying from the Legion like 3 times now.

The pandaren, like the vulpera, are just goofy looking. You take a look at them and if you didn't know they were WoW characters you'd think they were one of those Pay2Win Tencent games MMO races. Mix that with the paragraph above and you have a cacophony of an expansion that polarizes itself between extreme goofiness and really dark shit.

The fact that the entire expansion was a huge copy paste of Chinese folklore and history with another skin was also really tiresome. They could have mixed together Asian cultures, but it was just China China China, because they hoped they'd gain Chinese players after Cacaclysm massive drop in players.

In this respect, you look at Vulpera, and other than their goofy shitty looks, they have a really great setting. A huge ass snake temple in the desert? That's a really cool mix. It's actually intersting. If the race itself didn't look like a 5 year old's cartoon art I'd actually be interested in playing it.

The exact same can be said of the Pandaren times 10. Pandaria remains the most beautiful continent in the game imo. Yes the Pandaren are based entirely on Chinese culture - I'm sure Blizzard did this so as not to conflate Asian cultures. But there is also influence from other asian cultures in other parts of Pandaria - the Yaungol are inspired by mongolians for example.

As if it's been eight years and people still can't get over their lolpandas phase.

[Venziir]

The exact same can be said of the Pandaren times 10. Pandaria remains the most beautiful continent in the game imo. Yes the Pandaren are based entirely on Chinese culture - I'm sure Blizzard did this so as not to conflate Asian cultures. But there is also influence from other asian cultures in other parts of Pandaria - the Yaungol are inspired by mongolians for example.

As if it's been eight years and people still can't get over their lolpandas phase.

And let's not forget, that the original pandaren brewmaster caused a shitstorm, because it looked too much like a samurai. Blizzard, litterally, had to change that to avoid pissing of China back in 2004. Meaning that, they weren't even supposed to be "all about China" back then.

[Pakheth]

China eh? The yaungul were based on the mongol hordes, Krasarang was based around Cambodia, Kun-Lai was inspired by Nepal and Tibet. The Mantid vs Shado-Pan conflict was a spin on the White Walkers vs The Night's Watch from A Game of Thrones. The history of monk combat (slaves not being allowed weaponry) was based upon the origin of capoeira and finally there's Ra'den who is based upon a Japanese Thunder God.... So no, it's nost just "ChInA!".

Shows how much work and diverse inspiration went into designing Pandaria as a whole.
"Just China" just proves that certain people has a tendency to lump everyone and everything into one bunch with little thought.

Thanks for the summary btw, I had my suspicions about certain design elements but when you mention it it becomes obvious.