Why is Taurajo seen as unjustified?

[sam86]

Well, it is stupid to challenge someone more powerful than you head to head. Live to fight another day ? Stop spouting nonsense.

yes it is stupid but that's why we play a fantasy game
Lok'tar Ogar is a retarded war cry irl, it is better irl to withdraw and live another day, but in wow, in a fantasy game, i don't want real world logic when u can fireball someone, i want brave Orcs who will literally die instead of run away
Vol'jin ordered horde to retreat and it piss me off even now, a real orc would turned around, axed Vol'jin as soon he even said the letter "W" of withdraw, and reminded horde that we are "Lok'tar Ogar", not "Lok'tar or run away like little girls"
Yes retarded by real life standards, but this isn't real life
Honestly if i knew horde don't even follow their most iconic war cry doubt i'd ever played them

[Gann Stonespire]

No, he just tries to stop the Horde when it goes too far. He could not stop the burning of Teldrassil, he could at least save a single person in the form of Derek.

He didn't do anything when Sylvanas atomized tauren, nor when the Alliance massacred tauren, goblins and Zandalari.

I think I just get defensive because I find it the most absurd contradiction on this forum that when Baine exercised his role as leader of the tauren to exile a handful of tauren from Thunder Bluff (not the Horde) he felt were warmongering, then didn't apologize when it turned out said tauren were in the right, that is the evillest thing in the world that we should hold against him for all eternity.

Baine broke his blood oath to the horde by robbing the tauren of their right to retribution and the tauren were obviously being attacked. He also insulted the dead by falsely insinuating they were not civilians.

That is the absolute worst thing a leader can do and no leader in human history has ever done such a blatant betrayal of their own people during a war.

Yet Sylvanas's multiple accounts of torturing, brainwashing, and murdering her own people were fiercely defended by the exact same people. We're talking forsaken running to the safety of her open arms and getting stabbed in the back for it due to her own paranoia.

I've never defended Sylvanas at any point, you're just relying on the strawman fallacy, especially given all you get wrong about the Horde, especially tauren. You're insipid defense of Baine and denial of his crimes, whilst claiming him acting like a tauren would be being a "Bloodthirsty idiot" , just makes it seem like you only support him out of contrarianism.

That is why Sylvanas is going to die for loot, and Baine is going to be forgiven by the story along with the rest of the Horde as a whole.

Its because Baine is Golden's secondary pet who exists to tell us how great her primary pet Anduin is.

[Mehrunes]

I think I just get defensive because I find it the most absurd contradiction on this forum that when Baine exercised his role as leader of the tauren to exile a handful of tauren from Thunder Bluff (not the Horde) he felt were warmongering, then didn't apologize when it turned out said tauren were in the right, that is the evillest thing in the world that we should hold against him for all eternity.

Yet Sylvanas's multiple accounts of torturing, brainwashing, and murdering her own people were fiercely defended by the exact same people. We're talking forsaken running to the safety of her open arms and getting stabbed in the back for it due to her own paranoia.

That is why Sylvanas is going to die for loot, and Baine is going to be forgiven by the story along with the rest of the Horde as a whole.

It's almost as if the tortured and "murdered" Forsaken (you pulled the brainwashed ones out of the Nether) were traitors, despite Forsaken being pretty upfront about how they'd react to people acting against them, vide the warning given to newly risen undead that go their own way not to cross the Forsaken (not to mention how all factions in WoW treat traitors with outright hostility pretty much all the time).

The tortured Forsaken is Koltira who made an unauthorized truce with the enemy which needlessly cost Forsaken lives. Killed Forsaken include the 11 secessionists at the Gathering, Elsie who disobeyed orders about retreat from the Gathering, Stillwater who performed forbidden experiments, the guys that stole Sylvanas' bloodstones and tried to defect to the Kirin Tor and other similar cases. All of them were criminals from the perspective of Forsaken society.

Focusing on the Gathering some more, as has been mentioned multiple times whenever you peddled your (ever-changing) fanfiction about the event, your "we're talking Forsaken running to safety of her open arms" were defecting as per Calia who talked with all of them and they started to return only after Sylvanas deployed the Dark Rangers and shit of consequences already hit the fan. So trying to dismiss Sylvanas' behavior as paranoia when her suspicion was not only justified by their behavior but actually accurate is beyond misleading. Though that's more than par for the course here.

Meanwhile the exiled Tauren didn't actually do squat. They got exiled for wanting revenge. I.e. they got exiled for offending Baine's Alliance sycophancy. And they received the same punishment as Grimtotem that staged a coup against him. Meaning that it's almost as if you were deliberately ignoring key differences between these two things to construct your irredeemably false narrative of how the contradiction you claim here actually exists.

The only contradiction here is how you bend over backwards in regards to Sylvanas while ignoring the aforementioned reality of everyone on Azeroth treating traitors with violence as well. And, consequently, the reason you get defensive about any of that is the same reason why you get defensive about any other piece of your fallaciously and disingenuously woven fanfiction, i.e. you really don't like being called out on that for one reason or another.

[Gann Stonespire]

Meanwhile the exiled Tauren didn't actually do squat. They got exiled for wanting revenge. I.e. they got exiled for offending Baine's Alliance sycophancy. Meaning that it's almost as if you were deliberately ignoring key differences between these two things to construct your irredeemably false narrative of how the contradiction you claim here actually exists.

The only contradiction here is how you bend over backwards in regards to Sylvanas while ignoring the aforementioned reality of everyone on Azeroth treating traitors with violence as well. And, consequently, the reason you get defensive about any of that is the same reason why you get defensive about any other piece of your fallaciously and disingenuously woven fanfiction, i.e. you really don't like being called out on that for one reason or another.

Not to mention those tauren were exiling their basic rights as given to them by the Blood Oath of the Horde, that the writers of Cataclysm intended Baine himself to support them and that the only people they attacked were invading heavily armed soldiers and unrepentant warcriminals.

But

That retconned dialogue that makes Baine sound like Garrosh? I hadn't heard it before, only heard the datamining that he'd be there. I see why it was cut.

As you can see here, Baine's supporters are such fanatical Horde haters they think defending your people from invading criminals makes you a warmonger. If there's any double-standard, its on Powerogue's end.

[Powerogue]

Not to mention those tauren were exiling their basic rights as given to them by the Blood Oath of the Horde, that the writers of Cataclysm intended Baine himself to support them and that the only people they attacked were invading heavily armed soldiers and unrepentant warcriminals.

1) the blood oath doesn't exist anymore. No warchief, no oath.
2) said oath was an oath that their life belonged to the Warchief. I don't recall the clause you're acting like is the single most important thing in WoW lore (to an oath that was brought up in one minor quest in Wrath of the Lich King...) where it says "faction leaders have no authority to govern and punish their own people as they see fit."
https://wow.gamepedia.com/Blood_Oath...39;s%20command.

Wherever you're getting the "preventing retribution against their enemies" idea from, it doesn't even apply, because banishment doesn't prevent that at all. If I remember the quests correctly, and I plan on doing them again on my next alt as a refresher, they're all about you helping them do exactly that.

[Syegfryed]

1) the blood oath doesn't exist anymore. No warchief, no oath.

it doens't exist a warchief now, you are trying to say that since the warchioef don't exist now the oath mean nothing back then

Regardless, the oath can still exist today, but to the horde itself and not the warchief

2) said oath was an oath that their life belonged to the Warchief. I don't recall the clause you're acting like is the single most important thing in WoW lore (to an oath that was brought up in one minor quest in Wrath of the Lich King...) where it says "faction leaders have no authority to govern and punish their own people as they see fit."

When their leaders do something against the faction morals kinda drop the ball here

how is ok to baine unfairly exile his people by rightfully seeking retribution but isn't ok to Sylvanas "use her people as she see fit?" in derek case?

[Powerogue]

When their leaders do something against the faction morals kinda drop the ball here

how is ok to baine unfairly exile his people by rightfully seeking retribution but isn't ok to Sylvanas "use her people as she see fit?" in derek case?

I never even said it was "okay" so much as "an error in judgement grossly blown out of proportion." (But I would say there is a distinction between a harsh banishment and brainwashing someone to murder their own family.)

An error I'm starting to rescind because as I mentioned earlier I'm leveling in Southern Barrens. Besides learning that Crawgol is a master wordsmith, I found this quest: https://www.wowhead.com/quest=24632/tauren-vengeance

The first mention of Gann Stonespire.

[Gann Stonespire]

1) the blood oath doesn't exist anymore. No warchief, no oath.

There's no mention that all the Blood oaths are no more and the Warchief was around when Baine broke his oaths in Cataclysm.

1
Wherever you're getting the "preventing retribution against their enemies" idea from, it doesn't even apply, because banishment doesn't prevent that at all. If I remember the quests correctly, and I plan on doing them again on my next alt as a refresher, they're all about you helping them do exactly that.

Just as the right to freedom of speech means the President can't exile a citizen from Washington for writing an article he disagrees with, the High Chieftain can't exile people for defending themselves against invaders.

I never even said it was "okay" so much as "an error in judgement grossly blown out of proportion." (But I would say there is a distinction between a harsh banishment and brainwashing someone to murder their own family.)

A harsh punishment for defending themselves against invading warcriminals, a basic right in their society.

The first mention of Gann Stonespire.

That shows how little you know about tauren. Gann Stonespire has existed since classic, the scumbags at Bael'modan who also invaded Mulgore in Classic, killed his peaceful tribe to steal their land and their own journal confirms the Stonespire tauren were no threat to them. The General of Bael modan was one of the commanders charged with assaulting the gates of Mulgore and the civilians in the arrens.

I love how you try to condemn the survivors of genocide whilst propping up racist dwarves who openly kill people even they admit are no threat and talk about using their fortress for military expansionism. Just like how defending the gates of Mulgore would make Baine would somehow make him a "bloodthirsty idiot", because only an idiot warmonger would defend his own people he is sworn to protect from a ravaging army bent on conquering your land and subjugating your people.

how is ok to baine unfairly exile his people by rightfully seeking retribution but isn't ok to Sylvanas "use her people as she see fit?" in derek case?

Don't you know that because Baine's abuse of power only hurts the Horde, it make his actions magically ok?

[Powerogue]

Finally finished the questline, ending with "Next of Kin." I definitely have come to appreciate the solemn tragedy of this questline, so I really appreciate you bringing it to my attention, and have a newfound appreciation for why you picked that as your username.

The questline ends with you taking the [Dwarven Slug] that wounded him (he is implied to have succumbed to his wounds shortly after you leave) to his next of kin, Alto Stonespire.



It is good that we were able to help him find the vengeance that he sought, but even his family agrees that it's time to move on.

[FuxieDK]

Because Baine said it was justified. /thread

Baine is a traitor and his voice carries no weight.

[Gann Stonespire]

Finally finished the questline, ending with "Next of Kin." I definitely have come to appreciate the solemn tragedy of this questline, so I really appreciate you bringing it to my attention, and have a newfound appreciation for why you picked that as your username.

The questline ends with you taking the [Dwarven Slug] that wounded him (he is implied to have succumbed to his wounds shortly after you leave) to his next of kin, Alto Stonespire.



It is good that we were able to help him find the vengeance that he sought, but even his family agrees that it's time to move on.

You literally just ignored Baine's tribe was massacred and their land stolen by Dwarves, the leader of whom Varian later promoted.

Alto says nothing about moving on, he says the player needs to continue fighting the Alliance for their sake. The other Stonespire survivor, Aldo is also determined to push Bael modan to reclaim their tribal land.

You're literally just saying an entire tribe being massacred by WarCriminals whose actions were condoned by the Alliance, should just be forgotten. If they were Alliance, you'd never say such a silly thing.

[Powerogue]

You literally just ignored Baine's tribe was massacred and their land stolen by Dwarves, the leader of whom Varian later promoted.

I didn't "ignore" quests that literally weren't in the game anymore, give me a break here. >.< Quickly read through the original quests but there wasn't anything I didn't already know from what you've said.

What would you propose be done? Bael Modan is destroyed. That leader Varian promoted is dead. Varian is dead. Gann Stonespire is dead. His own family believes the vengeance he sought has already been accomplished and wish to move on.

And, what I found most striking,

No one blamed Baine. Not even Gann Stonespire.

(edit: Minor clarification, but General Twinbraid was the dad, he was promoted and later killed in MOP. Marley Twinbraid was the one who shot Gann, who died in a plane crash in the cutscene as Bael Modan exploded. Wasn't clear in the original questline, but I was browsing WoWpedia)

(edit2: and on a minor note, reading through https://wow.gamepedia.com/Ruins_of_Taurajo, I reconcile the possible-retcon with that Hawthorne gave the order to spare civilians, but either the ones slain made the misguided effort to stay and fight, or were killed by the Taurajo Looters against Hawthorne's orders. I should really read "Tides of War" sometime, but for the moment will have to be content with finishing this zone's questing. It's a very good zone.)

[Syegfryed]

I never even said it was "okay" so much as "an error in judgement grossly blown out of proportion." (But I would say there is a distinction between a harsh banishment and brainwashing someone to murder their own family.)

i mean, the difference here is mostly "intensity", we have both leaders doing awful stuff and using their power to get a free pass on

isn't a matter of who is right and who isn't, or who is more right, both are wrong.

[Daronokk]

The Alliance was the invader in the area making Theramore a legitimate military target, Taurajo was a civilian target making its destruction a warcrime. It's not double standards if you look at the bigger picture.

Alliance wants to be innocent but really aren't. And it's a good thing because unlike BfA Cataclysm actually had shades of grey storytelling.

[cparle87]

Theramore was a legitimate military target used as a platform from which to launch an invasion. Blowing it up with a giant bomb, however, I do not think can be called justified. Some crazy people will insist otherwise.

The orcs need lumber for their people, and logging trees is not unjustied. However, invading Ashenvale is dumb. Realistically, the orcs would either talk to the nelves and see if reaching some sort of agreement—frankly, they don't need all of those trees—or just importing resources from elsewhere would both be better solutions than warfare. However, since the writers are dead-set on driving faction conflict at every opportunity, the characters in the game do not act realistically, because the real-world writers have an agenda to fulfill. Also it happened to fit in nicely that Garrosh is crazy.

Burning Teldrassil is utterly crazy and is purely the actions of a deranged lunatic. Speaking of the above point, the writers like to keep forcing deranged lunatics into the warchief job, because that's the easy way to push the faction conflict.

Unlike Theramore, Taurajo was not a legitimate military target, nobody stationed there was a threat to the Alliance, nor was the ongoing conflict with the tauren, who disagreed with Garrosh's idiocy. It just happened to be an easy target. It was attacked not because it made sense to do so, but again to drive the pointless faction conflict such that Horde players would have something to be rightfully angry about.

As long as players let themselves be bamboozled by the writers into hating each other over the writer's dumb decisions, they've succeeded in their goal.

...

Except for the case of edgy elves, who are traitors and sellouts with no redeeming qualities and no reason to exist other than to cater to a particular group of crazed fans who like high elves but don't like red.

The orcs and night elves WERE trading peacefully with each other during early WoW. Up until Wrathgate where Putricide framed the orcs and the night elves unilaterally decided thwy weren't going to do business anymore. That was one of Garrosh's justifications to invade Ashenvale: "If you won't sell/trade us what we need, we'll take it."

More specifically on Taurajo, it was doubly bad because this was a mostly tauren settlement. You know, the peaceful guys who had an entirely tribe slaughtered to the south by dwarves because "lol titan stuff here it's ours die cows"?

- - - Updated - - -

I didn't "ignore" quests that literally weren't in the game anymore, give me a break here. >.< Quickly read through the original quests but there wasn't anything I didn't already know from what you've said.

Gotta argue with you here. Quests do not become non-canon because they're removed from the game. Otherwise just about everything that happened in Azeroth pre-Cata... didn't actually happen and has no influence on events that come later. See where I'm going?

[Gann Stonespire]

I didn't "ignore" quests that literally weren't in the game anymore, give me a break here. >.< Quickly read through the original quests but there wasn't anything I didn't already know from what you've said.

Those are still canon. Aldo also talks about removing the Dwarves.

Gann Stonespire is dead.

We never saw him die.

His own family believes the vengeance he sought has already been accomplished and wish to move on.

Stop posting misinformation.

Mod Edit: Don't use giant fonts in this fashion.

Auld actually says Gann's work isn't finished and go to Dustwallow to battle the Alliance and ensure his sacrifice was not in vain.

No one blamed Baine. Not even Gann Stonespire.

Thats because Baine exiling people for fighting back came much later and when those quests were written, the intent was for Baine to support the defense of the Barrens done by people like Gann in a later event. That shitty plot hole novel resulted in the event being cut and Baine being an apologist for the enemy as well a disgrace to the tauren.

If you want to be at all credible, you must admit Tides of War ruined Baine and that him fortifying the Vendetta point with his old ally, Jorn Skyseer makes far more sense.

(edit: Minor clarification, but General Twinbraid was the dad, he was promoted and later killed in MOP. Marley Twinbraid was the one who shot Gann, who died in a plane crash in the cutscene as Bael Modan exploded. Wasn't clear in the original questline, but I was browsing WoWpedia)

The douchebag went on a civilian killing spree in Alliance quests in the Barrens and his actions showed he would keep killing innocent people until he was sent to Hell. This was the man in charge of the Alliance push into Mulgore. Baine's action were essentially suicide.

(edit2: and on a minor note, reading through https://wow.gamepedia.com/Ruins_of_Taurajo, I reconcile the possible-retcon with that Hawthorne gave the order to spare civilians, but either the ones slain made the misguided effort to stay and fight, or were killed by the Taurajo Looters against Hawthorne's orders.

In Horde questing, we see the burnt bodies of Tauren inside the tents and we talk to their ghosts. All of them were low leveled and the only ones who fought were the skinning trainer who was only armed with a "Skinning knife" in his own words and the Flightmaster. The other all tried to flee, Yonada's ghost last words in life were even to "take the children and lets get out of here" and her ghost does the cower emote as she said this. Another tauren mentions the mother of his son was killed during the attack, remember he and his son can never return to Thunderbluff thanks to Baine's treachery.

I should note that even in Alliance questing, Hawthorne says many tauren civilians were killed and his intel that Taurajo was a military target planning an attack was false information. The camp was firebombed by bloodthirsty Dwarves when all hunters had left the camp, the soldiers were soldiers from the Stockades(shortly after a riot) and the only escape led to quilboar. Before you say, Hawthorne was an innocent victim though, he still professed his desire to push the Horde out of their lands.

That still means the enemy showed more concern for Baine's citizen's deaths, then Baine himself, showing what a shitty leader he is.

[Super Dickmann]

I like how even in a topic where she has no role, Sylvanas is still used as a crutch to defend Baine, because his actual actions are indefensible when left on their own - this is even done in a situation where the actual actions compared are actually worse for Baine than they are for the woman trying to end existence. Exiling your own people for defending themselves, giving food and water to the quillboars that prey upon them and thinking less of your dad for not doing the same and so forth are more objectionable conduct than the comparable executing of officials in the process of defecting to a foreign power with the intent to overthrow their sovereign. Torturing and enslaving one enemy is preferable to killing multiple soldiers on your own side to help said enemy as murder is the ultimate deprivation of free will and he owes something to those on his side and nothing to the force against him.

But nevermind the morally grey lady, Baine fails perfectly well without being up against a genocidal brain donor who's deliberately trying to fail and still coming up short in terms of managing their race and faction or inducting new races into the Horde. The very concept of the Vendetta Point tauren being warmongering is farcical on its face, because the war was already ongoing - the war didn't start or end with Taurajo but was part of an ongoing effort, which continued with the Great Gate siege which the Vendetta Point tauren and Garrosh's forces stop, despite Baine's best efforts to expose himself and his people to further attack. @Powerogue asks what Baine should have done - he should have been endorsing and supporting the pushback in the Barrens, then after expelling them from the Barrens then he could've started chatting with Jaina about love and peace. That's what he did in Vanilla with the Bael'dun miners - they were warned several times, then executed and their broken tools sent back to carry a message - no tauren invasion followed, since that's not their way, but it was made amply clear that violations of their territory were not to be tolerated. That was before his vasectomy, however, so I can't really expect that from him, so the other alternative I propose is the following - to do what he does when there's no opportunity to benefit the Alliance - do nothing at all. Do not exile the tauren, leave the defense of the Barrens solely to Garrosh and the local tauren. Do not give the quillboar resources, allow your people to fight them.

[Raisei]

Baine is a traitor and his voice carries no weight.

Well, he isn't and it does as by the canon lore, since he is now part of the ruling council of the Horde. And he personally safed all those little Banshee Loyalists from being Outcasts (no clue why, they will stab him in the back first chance they get). Not to mention that his contribution is one of the reasons the Horde still exists at all.

But whatever, the hate for this guy is so strong, that you folks are barely coherent by now so you are willfully ignoring these facts and consider Sylvanas, a mass murdering psychopathic zombie that wanted to kill you all, as the lesser evil. The mental gymnastics you have to do for that are just beyond me.

Pretty sure if the option was "joining the Burning Legion as mindless tools of destruction" or "follow Baine" you would happily down some demon blood, just out of spite.

Unfortunately it is unlikely you will be given that option, but the solution is really simple regardless. The Horde does no longer exist according to several Horde posters on this forum, so the only logical conclusion is that your characters do no longert exist either. Delete them and free yourself of the dictatorship of the cow.

- - - Updated - - -

I like how even in a topic where she has no role, Sylvanas is still used as a crutch to defend Baine, because his actual actions are indefensible when left on their own - this is even done in a situation where the actual actions compared are actually worse for Baine than they are for the woman trying to end existence. Exiling your own people for defending themselves, giving food and water to the quillboars that prey upon them and thinking less of your dad for not doing the same and so forth are more objectionable conduct than the comparable executing of officials in the process of defecting to a foreign power with the intent to overthrow their sovereign. Torturing and enslaving one enemy is preferable to killing multiple soldiers on your own side to help said enemy as murder is the ultimate deprivation of free will and he owes something to those on his side and nothing to the force against him.

On this point we have to keep disagreeing. As I pointed out in the other thread what Baine does is guided by his believe in honor not because of him being on the Alliance's side. He considers the Horde's honor more important then it's lives, even the lives of his own people. He is spelling this out in the Theramore cinematic when Jaina warns him that Sylvanas will kill him for this. "No life is worth living if we cannot be true to ourselves."
This is the reason behind all of this. He just wants to live his life with honor, a quality that the Horde (as an Orc dominated organisation) SAYS it aspires to as well. The problem is that it has repeatedly betrayed this notion (as Saurfang realizes) and left people that want to adhere to it behind. Baine is trying to keep this notion alive by trying to prevent the Horde to sink deeper and deeper.

You can disagree with that notion of course, say that honor does not matter and is certainly not worth any lifes and accuse Baine for putting too much weight on a concept that does not matter for the modern Horde, but calling him a traitor and saying his actions are motivated by wanting to help the Alliance beat the Horde is simply not correct.

As for the Sylvanas comparisons yes these happen naturally, because for some reason, that boggles the mind, people keep defending and absolving her with tooth and nail after she literally wanted to kill them, but a cow that just wants to be a decent honorable person is made the devil itself (he has the cloven feet and horns down at least). I am still trying and failing to do the mental gymnastics to understand this, so it somewhat fascinates me.

[Super Dickmann]

On this point we have to keep disagreeing. As I pointed out in the other thread what Baine does is guided by his believe in honor not because of him being on the Alliance's side. He considers the Horde's honor more important then it's lives, even the lives of his own people. He is spelling this out in the Theramore cinematic when Jaina warns him that Sylvanas will kill him for this. "No life is worth living if we cannot be true to ourselves."
This is the reason behind all of this. He just wants to live his life with honor, a quality that the Horde (as an Orc dominated organisation) SAYS it aspires to as well. The problem is that it has repeatedly betrayed this notion (as Saurfang realizes) and left people that want to adhere to it behind. Baine is trying to keep this notion alive by trying to prevent the Horde to sink deeper and deeper.

You can disagree with that notion of course, say that honor does not matter and is certainly not worth any lifes and accuse Baine for putting too much weight on a concept that does not matter for the modern Horde, but calling him a traitor and saying his actions are motivated by wanting to help the Alliance beat the Horde is simply not correct.

As for the Sylvanas comparisons yes these happen naturally, because for some reason, that boggles the mind, people keep defending and absolving her with tooth and nail after she literally wanted to kill them, but a cow that just wants to be a decent honorable person is made the devil itself (he has the cloven feet and horns down at least). I am still trying and failing to do the mental gymnastics to understand this, so it somewhat fascinates me.

I think this is actually the same thread, that or all these Baine threads are the same since we keep arguing the same shit endlessly. I'll check after I've finished this reply and I'll let you know if I've suffered an existential crisis.

Anyway, regarding Baine acting out of a sense of honor and obligation - that is the story intent and that is how you can read his actions, but because of the way the story is constructed, that doesn't carry through. As I've talked over with Powerogue and others as well, you can't infer a character's stance on something outside his presence, put another way, we can't actually say that Baine was okay with the Burning or with the melting of his tauren at the walls of Lordaeron. What we can however say is that whatever his reaction to those things it was not of sufficient size to produce outcry or merit notice, as compared to what does bring him to do something, that being what happens with Derek.

More than that, 'No life is worth living unless we're true to ourselves' is an incredibly selfish sentiment when you stop and think about it. It's essentially 'Do as you will'. It's morally vacuous. Baine even gets called out by Lor'themar where Lor'themar is happy with Baine's personal courage, but worries what might happen to the tauren now that he took that step, since Baine isn't just an independent party, but he is responsible for a race of people and his kindness towards Derek put them at risk. Now, we know that the tauren aren't actually harmed, but that's because, up until Baine sets up shop in Thunder Bluff no tauren lifted a finger to help him or agree with him. And why would they? He didn't act in their favour - he acted to satisfy his own sense of righteousness. Compare and contrast that with Saurfang, who, after he begins his journey with an extremely similar mindset, down to taking the Horde and the character set up as his surrogate son as viable collateral on the off-chance Anduin might defeat Sylvanas, ultimately takes a step that puts only his own life in danger in order to rescue others when his story comes full circle at the gates of Orgrimmar.

Baine consistently acts like someone abstracted from his role as leader of a people participating in a war and as a member of a state at war. He instead takes actions that are good for his friends or that feel nice, consequences be damned. This isn't just when it comes to the Alliance, though because his friends are there it's overwhelmingly in that direction - it's a general thing that influences every decision. It's part of his choice to give food to the quillboar, because his dad couldn't do it but he knows better and his dad just didn't try hard enough, it's part of his choice to decide to trust Saurfang on the War of Thorns because he has a personal faith in him, despite knowing that Saurfang is selling him a line of bullcrap there and it even extends to how he helps the loyalists after the conflict wraps up - it feels nice to help, so he does. Is that the character they've tried to produce? No, but that is what they've made and what his actions are. And that's also why I wholesale reject the idea that he's acting out of any allegiance to a Horde-style honor - he is, by his own admission, acting out of personal reasons.

[Combatbutler]

On this point we have to keep disagreeing. As I pointed out in the other thread what Baine does is guided by his believe in honor not because of him being on the Alliance's side. He considers the Horde's honor more important then it's lives, even the lives of his own people. He is spelling this out in the Theramore cinematic when Jaina warns him that Sylvanas will kill him for this. "No life is worth living if we cannot be true to ourselves."
This is the reason behind all of this. He just wants to live his life with honor, a quality that the Horde (as an Orc dominated organisation) SAYS it aspires to as well. The problem is that it has repeatedly betrayed this notion (as Saurfang realizes) and left people that want to adhere to it behind. Baine is trying to keep this notion alive by trying to prevent the Horde to sink deeper and deeper.

He is the leader of his people and their well-being should be his top priority, which is why he is such a crappy leader, who the hell cares if his personal honor is besmirched, if it means saving hundreds of tauren lives? His people matter, not his conviction. He should act in their interest, heck baine would have been relatable, if he had seen the death toll among his people and knowing he can't beat Sylvanas outright resorts to assassination attempts, through the most shadiest shit possible, instead he risks everything for a damn proudmoore.