Star Wars: John Favreau's Sequel Retcon Rumors [Discussion]

[Ragedaug]

She’s super easy to restrain because of how the force works and how freaked out she was from being first exposed to it in an active manor. She “beats” kylo’s mind probe because he doesn’t push with it at all after he finds out she’s force sensitive he literally leaves to go tell snoke as soon as she shows she can do the same.

That's like the only non-Mary Sue moment, when Kylo easily restrains her. That's not the part I have a problem with, so I find it funny that you are explaining that part away. Kylo should be able to easily restrain a non-forced trained opponent. It's her beating his mind probe right after that is problematic.

She’s better at fixing the falcon as she was raised as a scav which is literally shown in her first scene and she worked at the place it was kept and was working on it coupled with Han and chewy being smugglers not engineers.

Being a scavenger doesn't make you good at fixing or building things. It means you are good at finding stuff and taking stuff apart. Han and Chewie are smugglers with decades of experience repairing that very old ship that continually breaks. And she's not only better than Han and Chewie, she's better then the engineers who built the Falcon. "What'd you do?". "I bypassed the compressor". So Rey rips out the compressor and wiring to fix the Falcon, 'cause apparently it's not needed. Stupid engineers. Where was Rey when they designed the Falcon, she could have really helped.

She doesn’t easily defeat kylo even with his multiple injury’s she’s on the back foot until he gives her an opening to use the force.

I didn't say she easily defeated Kylo. I talked about her being an expert staff fighter. Something she never earns. She easily knocks out two assailants, then easily defeats a life-long trained storm trooper (Finn). In the next movie, she easily defeats a Jedi Master.

[rhorle]

Being a scavenger doesn't make you good at fixing or building things. It means you are good at finding stuff and taking stuff apart. Han and Chewie are smugglers with decades of experience repairing that very old ship that continually breaks. And she's not only better than Han and Chewie, she's better then the engineers who built the Falcon. "What'd you do?". "I bypassed the compressor". So Rey rips out the compressor and wiring to fix the Falcon, 'cause apparently it's not needed. Stupid engineers. Where was Rey when they designed the Falcon, she could have really helped.

To be fair the falcon was a pretty common freighter type even if the falcon was heavily modified. And "scavenger" in this context is basically a DIY engineer. She was taught some skills, and having to recovering working tech would teach you some things. She also built her own speeder. So its not like she is just some beach comber with a metal detector. The falcon would have been a bunch of modifications at that point.

Its a weak point sure but its not that crazy of one.

[Gallahadd]

So Rey rips out the compressor and wiring to fix the Falcon, 'cause apparently it's not needed. Stupid engineers. Where was Rey when they designed the Falcon, she could have really helped.

You realise the compressor was put there by the guys that took the Falcon, right? The guy that Rey was shown working with at the start?

It was installed AFTER Han lost the Falcon, so he wouldn't immediately have thought of it, because he is still thinking of the Falcon as the ship that it was when he lost it.

Meanwhile, it's vaguely implied that Rey was THERE when it was installed, and was against it being put in. Thus, she would think to go for that first, because she knows that it could cause the problem. (A problem, you'll note, that Han was also aware of. See the "Jinx" moment before take off).

[PaladinSum]

You realise the compressor was put there by the guys that took the Falcon, right? The guy that Rey was shown working with at the start?

It was installed AFTER Han lost the Falcon, so he wouldn't immediately have thought of it, because he is still thinking of the Falcon as the ship that it was when he lost it.

Meanwhile, it's vaguely implied that Rey was THERE when it was installed, and was against it being put in. Thus, she would think to go for that first, because she knows that it could cause the problem. (A problem, you'll note, that Han was also aware of. See the "Jinx" moment before take off).

Why would she know of or care about modifications on a ship she disregarded for escape as being "so much garbage"? If you're going to say she flew or worked on that ship, I'm going to ask why she didn't remove it forever ago since she was against it and it took seconds to go around.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

That's like the only non-Mary Sue moment, when Kylo easily restrains her. That's not the part I have a problem with, so I find it funny that you are explaining that part away. Kylo should be able to easily restrain a non-forced trained opponent. It's her beating his mind probe right after that is problematic.

I’m not explain her getting knocked out away I’m exposing the duality of her getting knocked out and then. Being able to push against the mind probe in the next scene, both make sense in the context of the previous material.

Being a scavenger doesn't make you good at fixing or building things. It means you are good at finding stuff and taking stuff apart. Han and Chewie are smugglers with decades of experience repairing that very old ship that continually breaks. And she's not only better than Han and Chewie, she's better then the engineers who built the Falcon. "What'd you do?". "I bypassed the compressor". So Rey rips out the compressor and wiring to fix the Falcon, 'cause apparently it's not needed. Stupid engineers. Where was Rey when they designed the Falcon, she could have really helped.

The compressor didn’t come with the falcon it was added by the the people who bought it who she worked for. As to her being a scav Mabye it’s just a difference in media but pretty much every thing I can think of has scav’s working as engineers as well even if they aren’t high quality ones most of the time. As go han and chewy han was never a tech guy and even chewy is shown to need help when it comes to repairs in the OT they are expects on the falcon or how to fix it and never have been.

I didn't say she easily defeated Kylo. I talked about her being an expert staff fighter. Something she never earns. She easily knocks out two assailants, then easily defeats a life-long trained storm trooper (Finn). In the next movie, she easily defeats a Jedi Master.

why would her beating two random nobody’s be a problem? She’s been living on her own supposedly dealing with thefts for years. As to finn being a storm trooper storm troopers are shit and have been since day one this is like complaing that Luke wasn’t shot dead on the Death Star by trained troopers and was able to shoot some.

She also didn’t easily defeat luke she didn’t land a single blow took multiple and then is disarmed before pulling the saber which Luke didn’t see coming as it’s a massive escalation.

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Why would she know of or care about modifications on a ship she disregarded for escape as being "so much garbage"? If you're going to say she flew or worked on that ship, I'm going to ask why she didn't remove it forever ago since she was against it and it took seconds to go around.

It wasn’t her ship if your boss or the owner of a car tells you to put and leave something on you don’t just go around them and take it off that’s a good way to get fired or likely in Rey’s case denied food.

[PaladinSum]

I’m not explain her getting knocked out away I’m exposing the duality of her getting knocked out and then. Being able to push against the mind probe in the next scene, both make sense in the context of the previous material.

The compressor didn’t come with the falcon it was added by the the people who bought it who she worked for. As to her being a scav Mabye it’s just a difference in media but pretty much every thing I can think of has scav’s working as engineers as well even if they aren’t high quality ones most of the time. As go han and chewy han was never a tech guy and even chewy is shown to need help when it comes to repairs in the OT they are expects on the falcon or how to fix it and never have been.

why would her beating two random nobody’s be a problem? She’s been living on her own supposedly dealing with thefts for years. As to finn being a storm trooper storm troopers are shit and have been since day one this is like complaing that Luke wasn’t shot dead on the Death Star by trained troopers and was able to shoot some.

She also didn’t easily defeat luke she didn’t land a single blow took multiple and then is disarmed before pulling the saber which Luke didn’t see coming as it’s a massive escalation.

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It wasn’t her ship if your boss or the owner of a car tells you to put and leave something on you don’t just go around them and take it off that’s a good way to get fired or likely in Rey’s case denied food.

How would anyone know she did it? And plenty of slaves have gotten themselves killed for defiance. If anything, she should have done it in preparation to finally escape and look for her parents instead of waiting for them. Freedom from slavery was literally just sitting there and this isn't some well guarded fortress where 3 ships will try to shoot her down.

[Gallahadd]

Why would she know of or care about modifications on a ship she disregarded for escape as being "so much garbage"? If you're going to say she flew or worked on that ship, I'm going to ask why she didn't remove it forever ago since she was against it and it took seconds to go around.

Because she didn't care. It wasn't her ship and she wasn't flying on it. Why risk pissing off the guy that installed it?

But once it became a literal matter of life and death for her, she did what she had to.

[PaladinSum]

Because she didn't care. It wasn't her ship and she wasn't flying on it. Why risk pissing off the guy that installed it?

But once it became a literal matter of life and death for her, she did what she had to.

Because life as a scavenger slave sucks ass and the means to escape are literally right there? Also, "My parents are out there somewhere".

[Lorgar Aurelian]

How would anyone know she did it? And plenty of slaves have gotten themselves killed for defiance. If anything, she should have done it in preparation to finally escape and look for her parents instead of waiting for them. Freedom from slavery was literally just sitting there and this isn't some well guarded fortress where 3 ships will try to shoot her down.

they would know when they went to work on the ship again the thing isn't hidden and its oblivious to go to the person who was against adding it first. Rey also wasn't looking for freedom the movie's paint a pretty clear picture that she had massive trouble moving on and wasn't even close to ready to let go and and go look for them as even when she does get away she wants to go back.

[PaladinSum]

they would know when they went to work on the ship again the thing isn't hidden and its oblivious to go to the person who was against adding it first. Rey also wasn't looking for freedom the movie's paint a pretty clear picture that she had massive trouble moving on and wasn't even close to ready to let go and and go look for them as even when she does get away she wants to go back.

If she's perfectly willing to abandon piles of food and angering her owner to not turn over BB-8, she should be willing to steal a ship to, at bare minimum, no longer be a slave.

Also. Since the force is "a solution to everything", why didn't the force cure her mental issues the same way it freed Finn from brainwashing? Remember, the force can do anything and trying to have rules is forbidden.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

If she's perfectly willing to abandon piles of food and angering her owner to not turn over BB-8, she should be willing to steal a ship to, at bare minimum, no longer be a slave.

Also. Since the force is "a solution to everything", why didn't the force cure her mental issues the same way it freed Finn from brainwashing? Remember, the force can do anything and trying to have rules is forbidden.

The two aren’t at all the same. She can get food for trading things other then Bb8 and she’s likely had arguments with the alien before as she’s been there for years and is rather rash. To her being a slave it’s not something she is ever shown to have a problem with so she has no reason to steal a ship and be free and given that she thinks her Parants will come back for her one day it would openly go against what she wants.

As far as the force and its rules That’s all rather nonsensical and vague but as far as precedents go the force seems to cause mental issues but never fix them.

As far as Finn goes they never followed though with him being force sensitive in any real way so there’s no real reason to think the force broke his brain washing in an active sense.

[Pozz]

Haven't seen the last because I was so disillusioned by YLJ. I still don't think they should remove/strike the sequel trilogy(nor do I think they will) as it sets a very dangerous standard and will actively encourage yelling and screaming after every single movie, show, game, book etc forever.

If your Canon starts mattering so little you can change it willy nilly all the time, why should people care about it at all?

I'd rather they focus on the future and actually plan out stuff instead of trying to fix the horrible mess they made.

[Gallahadd]

Because life as a scavenger slave sucks ass and the means to escape are literally right there? Also, "My parents are out there somewhere".

Except that she's not a slave, and she literally spends the whole film saying she wants to go BACK to Jakku. She says it so often, it becomes a freakin joke in the movie. If she's WANTED to leave, she probably could have, but she didnt want to. She WANTED to stay on Jakku and wait for her parents to return. That's basically her whole plot for the first film...

[PaladinSum]

The two aren’t at all the same. She can get food for trading things other then Bb8 and she’s likely had arguments with the alien before as she’s been there for years and is rather rash. To her being a slave it’s not something she is ever shown to have a problem with so she has no reason to steal a ship and be free and given that she thinks her Parants will come back for her one day it would openly go against what she wants.

As far as the force and its rules That’s all rather nonsensical and vague but as far as precedents go the force seems to cause mental issues but never fix them.

As far as Finn goes they never followed though with him being force sensitive in any real way so there’s no real reason to think the force broke his brain washing in an active sense.

But not rash enough to steal a ship. And why wouldn't he make her life a living hell for it? The amount he came with shows he wants that thing and he has no reason to accept no for an answer.

Oh, there is plenty of reason to say the force freed him. Like the people who keep saying the force does everything. And sequel fans directly saying that's how he got free and thus causing Jannah and her platoon to strip Finn of any uniqueness.

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Except that she's not a slave, and she literally spends the whole film saying she wants to go BACK to Jakku. She says it so often, it becomes a freakin joke in the movie. If she's WANTED to leave, she probably could have, but she didnt want to. She WANTED to stay on Jakku and wait for her parents to return. That's basically her whole plot for the first film...

She 100% is a slave. Being sold for drinking money is being sold into slavery. Unless we're saying Kylo lied about that.

Which really makes TFA and TROS hilarious. Since her parents feared for her safety so much, they sold her into slavery. And she thought her parents who left her in slavery were absolutely coming back.

[Gallahadd]

She 100% is a slave. Being sold for drinking money is being sold into slavery. Unless we're saying Kylo lied about that.

That's exactly what we're saying, yes.

Honestly, though. Her being a slave doesn't actually factor in. The point is that she didn't want to leave Jakku, and that's why she didn't. She was perfectly content to stay there and live as she was living, waiting for her parents to return.

[PaladinSum]

That's exactly what we're saying, yes.

Honestly, though. Her being a slave doesn't actually factor in. The point is that she didn't want to leave Jakku, and that's why she didn't. She was perfectly content to stay there and live as she was living, waiting for her parents to return.

But he said he didn't lie. If that's a lie, shouldn't we be treating everything like a lie? Like him wanting her by his side? Or that he actually changed before he died? How much is a lie?

And being a slave honestly does. People tend to be miserable in slavery. Or was Anakin and his mother insane for not wanting to be slaves? And why was Rose complaining about slavery if it doesn't matter?

[Fayolynn]

This is just objectively false.

Kylo beats Rey, without any real effort at all, in their first encounter. She loses that fight, and it's not remotely a contest.
Rey also has a fair amount of experience fighting. She's had to survive in a rough-and-tumble scavver lifestyle. She's carrying that staff when we meet her for a reason, and she demonstrates her skill with it early on.
When Kylo and Rey face off again, Kylo has already been grievously wounded and the film makes a point of showing that he is literally bleeding out into the snow as they face off. Rey, however, is fresh and unharmed. That's what makes the difference, and the movie literally zooms in on the Kylo bleeding to make sure you haven't forgotten him taking a bowcaster shot to the gut, a shot that hits with the impact of a grenade, launching most targets through the air on impact. He's literally only alive because he's holding himself together with the Force.



About the only things she's shown having any real competence for are;
A> fighting. She's been fighting most of her life.
B> Mechanics. She was a scavver. That's literally what she's been doing her entire life. The main scene people pick on is with the Millenium Falcon, which isn't even new to Rey; she's literally been working on that ship personally before, which is how she knew it was a piece of junk in the first place.
C> Piloting. She's been dreaming of that her entire life, and farting around with the Falcon and sims. Why do we accept Luke's experience with farm equipment as being prep for flying an X-wing, but not this?
D> The Force. Which, canonically, is heavily instinctual and Force-capable people usually start using it without training, as children, which is literally why the Jedi try and get to them so young. Basically the only Force-capable person we see struggling with learning to use the Force is Luke himself, and even in the OT, that's presented as Luke's own personal issues, not any inherent difficulty. Literally, that the only reason Luke can't do it is because Luke doesn't believe in himself. That's literally the whole point of his time on Dagobah, with Yoda.

Their first encounter she hadn't gone through her "awakening" in the force yet, sure Kylo won but does it really count for anything when the playing field is so uneven? That fight is even more lopsided then their dual in the snow when Kylo is injured.

A > Yup, she had to know to to fight this makes total sense.
B > I see scavenging to be a separate skill set from having mechanical skills. Scavenging is about identifying valuable/hidden things and how to retrieve them without breaking them. I could remove the compressor from my refrigerator right now if I wanted to, that doesn't mean I can diagnose whats wrong with my refrigerator if it stops working and fix it.
C > The reason we accept Luke as a pilot and not Rey is how the film establishes the character has piloting skills.

In TFA the first we know of Rey's ability to fly is when she announces she is a pilot moments before taking off in the falcon. Then she is so skilled at flying it that when Finns gun gets jammed and he can't aim it she is able to maneuver the Falcon to line up the shot for Finn. Nothing has prepared the audience to expect she can do that. I bring up the flight simulator but in the film itself they don't exist. It comes off as a retroactive attempt to explain away an issue rather than something that was planned out.

For Luke the first time we hear about him being a pilot is from another character, not from Luke himself. "He was the best star-pilot in the galaxy, and a cunning warrior. I understand you've become quite a good pilot yourself. And he was a good friend. Which reminds me..." This tells us Luke is either a good enough pilot that a crazy old hermit knows about it, or that Obi-Wan has been keeping tabs on Luke and knows for himself that Luke is a good pilot. Later in the film as they are getting ready to attack the Death Star, Red Leader approaches Luke and questions if he can handle the X-Wing. Before Luke can say anything an experienced pilot, Biggs, steps in and vouches for Luke's skill. But here is the kicker, during the battle Luke is shown to be a very bad pilot. He literally only survives the fight by dumb luck and others saving his ass. He gets so close to a turbo-laser battery that hes attacking that when it explodes it almost takes him with it. He gets separated from the group and a lone TIE fighter almost takes him out before Wedge rescues him. If Han hadn't shown up, Vader would have killed him as well.

TLDR: Rey states she is a pilot then shows off how amazing she is. For Luke, others talk him up but then his inexperience shows.

D > Partially true. The Force is shown to be instinctual to a certain degree but still requires training and disciplined to master it. Like Anakin was instinctually using the Force while podracing, but he didn't know that is what he was doing, nor did he know how to use it on a whim. The reason Jedi were taken young for training had more to do with the emotional side of things.

"Ready, are you? What know you of ready? For eight hundred years have I trained Jedi. My own counsel will I keep on who is to be trained!A Jedi must have the deepest commitment, the most serious mind. This one a long time have I watched.All his life has he looked away... to the future, to the horizon. Never his mind on where he was. Hmm? What he was doing. Hmph. Adventure. Heh! Excitement. Heh! A Jedi craves not these things. You are reckless. He is too old. Yes, too old to begin the training." - Yoda, Empire Strikes Back

"He is too old. There is already too much anger in him." - Yoda, The Phantom Menace

To your other point the only person we see learning to use the Force is Luke and a brief scene or two of younglings training during the PT. So we don't really know if Luke was an abnormality or not. The one thing we do know is Jedi training is a long path that starts at a very young age, force sensitive infants were adopted and raised to be Jedi. Obi-wan was 25 in the Phantom Menace and still only had the rank of Padawan, AKA Jedi in training. The council balked at the idea that after 20+ years of training that he was ready to become a Jedi Knight. Below is from The Phantom Menace.

YODA : An apprentice, you have, Qui-Gon. Impossible, to take on a second.
MACE WINDU : We forbid it.
QUI-GON : Obi-Wan is ready...
OBI-WAN : I am ready to face the trials.
YODA : Ready so early, are you? What know you of ready?
QUI-GON : Headstrong....and he has much to learn about the living Force, but he is capable. There is little more he will learn from me.
YODA : Our own council we will keep on who is ready. More to learn, he has...

Hell, even Snoke talks about how Kylo needs to finish his training. There is clearly more to using the Force then just instinct and getting over a mental block.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

But not rash enough to steal a ship. And why wouldn't he make her life a living hell for it? The amount he came with shows he wants that thing and he has no reason to accept no for an answer.

Oh, there is plenty of reason to say the force freed him. Like the people who keep saying the force does everything. And sequel fans directly saying that's how he got free and thus causing Jannah and her platoon to strip Finn of any uniqueness.

She is rash enough to steel a ship we know this because she does so and then still wants to go back. That how ever doesn’t mean she would steal it for no reason when she fully believes waiting is the best way for her to find her parents thinking they will return.

As to making her life hell he probably would have if she stayed or returned but she left right after that and didn’t go back.

As to what other people want to say about Finn or the force I can only speak for my self and I’d say there’s no indication that the Actively force had a hand in it at all.

[rhorle]

But not rash enough to steal a ship. And why wouldn't he make her life a living hell for it? The amount he came with shows he wants that thing and he has no reason to accept no for an answer.

He wanted it because there was a bounty on the droid. So he wanted to collect the bounty. He wanted to stop Rey from collecting it because his entire method of profit relied on being the only source of food for the people trapped on Jakku. They weren't all slaves. They were just people stuck and trying to make a living. In the novels it shows more of the life she had. She lived with a few different scavenger groups before setting off on her own. That isn't slavery.

The First Order has re-education protocols because apparently the brain washing is not 100% effective. It isn't just because they have a plethora of force sensitive people that always break free.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

The biggest problem with Disney Star Wars so far has been mostly on the production end. What we are seeing is a lot of movies that had a director/writers hired about 4-5 years in advanced (which makes sense to make good movies) and then those people either leaving the project or getting fired usually within a year or less of filming. In Solo's case like after most the filming was even over. What a nightmare. Then the studio level producers had no creative direction for the universe. Just deal cards to directors and let them run in any direction they choose. No big picture to follow. No dots to connect within the story you are telling. Just do what you want. The next guy is just left constantly picking up the pieces and trying to rework the whole thing again to push the direction he wants too independently again of course.

I put most of this blame on Kathleen Kennedy. Not so much for the politics part of it although it was grossly injected imo. But I can handle that most the time. The just letting movies ride on their own without a big overarching plan? Horrible. Cannot let that one roll off my back as easily. Then it is obvious either she created a work environment that made people want to leave as directions (pretty odd) or constantly made the wrong hiring choices in directors by having to fire them or watching them walk out the door. In either case.. that's the job.. its obvious she fucked it up royally.

All I hope is she is replaced and someone can come into Star Wars that has a plan. That is all I ask. I think we can pull your average Star Wars Youtuber into that office and get a better product than we have gotten so far.. because.. I mean.. at least they care and would at least have a path. Which is sad. Very sad.