When Will The Alt Mag'har Realize That Lightforged And Lightbound Are Not The Same?

[Verdugo]

They find it unbelievable that anything can be as bland as lightforged, so they identify them as closest thing they know.

[Hellspawn]

They are Orcs, what do you expect?

[KOUNTERPARTS]

OP you're posting this as if something happened between the Mag'har and the Lightforged of the Alliance.


So I'm not sure how to respond to your post?


When will they realize? Nothing has happened for them to mistakenly identify the Lightforged as the Lightbound instead.

[A Chozo]

OP you're posting this as if something happened between the Mag'har and the Lightforged of the Alliance.

Some Mag'har like Geya'rah think that the Alliance should suffer for having Draenei in their ranks.

Simple as that. That's what OP is trying to expand upon.

It's just the Orcs being, at the core of it, racist. Not... real world-related racism with all it's context, but when they see the same race that ruined Draenor, they see an enemy.

[KOUNTERPARTS]

Some Mag'har like Geya'rah think that the Alliance should suffer for having Draenei in their ranks.

Simple as that. That's what OP is trying to expand upon.

It's just the Orcs being, at the core of it, racist. Not... real world-related racism with all it's context, but when they see the same race that ruined Draenor, they see an enemy.

Ahhh, I see.


EDIT: Found some interesting quotes from her. This girl is damaged.

As a child, draenei scholars taught me to read and write. I liked them. Respected them.
Then the naaru came, and fanaticism took hold.
The draenei were reborn--no, they have a different word for it--re-forged in their precious Light.
Their belief blinds them, binds them to masters who seek to control the universe as surely as the Legion did.
Draenei... eredar... so willing to bend the knee. So prone to corruption.

The Alliance embraces the draenei and their Lightforged kin.
That alone is reason to crush their cities to dust.

[omeomorfismo]

Sorry to learn you haven't been paying attention to Blizzard's messaging. Whenever an Alliance character is racist, it is held up as a horrible villain. Horde can merrily be racist as they like and not a peep is made.

- Garithos. Blood Elves (and their fans) lump all humans as just like him, and use it to excuse betraying their former allies by joining the Horde.

- Arthas. Again, Blood Elves (and fans) wail that a human led the attack on them, so all humans are bad, never acknowledging mind controlled death knight.

- Daelin. Instead of "he's acting rationally, pursuing the orcs in case they're trying to gain strength to resume the Old Horde's work", he's tarred as an irredeemable racist villain, refusing to understand the orcs are now different. (Honest we are! Please ignore our violent escape and everyone killed during it!)

In those cases, the Horde are racist in "all humans!" Horde characters routinely refer to entire races in the Alliance in negative terms. Not a peep against it.



Want some Alliance characters that formerly put Horde races in one bad basket, but were later "educated" and explicitly shown to be wrong, including public statements of their new knowledge?

- Varian: At ICC, he acknowledges the Saurfangs as more than monsters. By Legion, he's openly saying he believes like Anduin.

- Genn: Has stated he no longer believes Forsaken means automatically evil.

- Jaina: Post-Theramore bombing, understood the Horde were monsters. Fast forward to today, all is forgiven. Bonus points, her own father is dragged through the villain mud. Again.


Now, how about Tyrande? After suffering two mass slaughters of her people (first one was actually rewarded in ceding Azshara to the Horde for peace), she finally is through taking whatever the Horde dishes out. Is she praised for wanting justice for the mass murders, for the Horde breaking their treaty, for an atrocity against her people? No, she's slandered as "consumed by vengeance" and otherwise heavily shown to be in the wrong, blaming the whole Horde when clearly Sylvanas was just busy as hell and a master illusionist who tricked everyone into seeing a Horde army.

Maybe Yrel? After all, her sister was sacrificed to the Void, her people tortured and slaughtered, their souls used as fuel for warlocks, all because some strange orc said so. Anyone rational would say "never again" and work to end the perpetual threat of the orcs turning on the Draenei again. She takes the approach of converting orcs to the Light instead of returning the favor of slaughtering them. Is she presented as merciful? Nope, she's obviously a racist zealot!

So again, racism is ok when the Horde does it.

lol, turalyon is basically the biggest alliance hero and his best feat is literally becoming super sayan after spouting "orcs arent from azeroth so its ok murder them with the light" no-sense.
literally he is THE suprematist of warcraft

[Kithelle]

Ok, would have TRIED to kill him

- - - Updated - - -



Daelin wanted to kill ALL Orcs, regardless if they had anything to do with the First and Second Wars, or if they were even born during those times. It pretty much implied, if not outright said, that Daelin would even kill orc children.

Also, Yrel targeted even those who were never part of the Iron Horde, like Durotan.

Once again, the acts of one person doesn't make a entire race racist. He was vilified and in the end he was killed, you don't see anyone trying to claim he was a hero...

But on the other hand you have people who to this day glorify Garrosh...you have plenty of people who love Sylvanas. Don't see many if anyone who actually love Y'rel, and like Feanoro said, she converted not killed the Orcs.

It's all double standards...all are perfectly fine when the Horde does it...

[Tripzzz]

Nothing more needs to be said. The Lightforged only serve any kind of purpose, and the Light and Void only have any meaning whatsoever if they have an actual perceptible effect on those that're infused with them. If the people partly composed of the Light are okay with a demon icing their leader, follow around the Void and 25k years under Xe'ra are dispelled within five minutes because 'uwu she was too extreme' then the cosmic powers are rendered moot and those tied to them have no reason to exist, with nothing distinguishing them from bargain bin paladins or priests.

Very true. However the Lightforged and Void elves aren't the only ones who suffer from this. Death is also a cosmic force and those infused with it's power should be much more anti-life in demeanor and appearance than what is shown. This is mainly a problem because these races are playable. The playable Lightforged, Void elves, and Forsaken should all be much more radical and aggressive like Yrel, SW visions Alleria, and Putress.

In terms of Aesthetics, I think the Light and Void do a much better job at showing "corruption" and it's relation to increased power. When infused the lightforged become lighter and brighter, the Void elves grow darker and shadowy, but undead for some reason become more life-like? Death Knights and Dark rangers are considered greater undead but they look more alive than standard zombies. Being a greater undead should transform you into a skeletal version of yourself, like Liches or Necrolords.

[Wylyth1992]

Once again, the acts of one person doesn't make a entire race racist. He was vilified and in the end he was killed, you don't see anyone trying to claim he was a hero...

But on the other hand you have people who to this day glorify Garrosh...you have plenty of people who love Sylvanas. Don't see many if anyone who actually love Y'rel, and like Feanoro said, she converted not killed the Orcs.

It's all double standards...all are perfectly fine when the Horde does it...

I won't ever be able to understand why people glorify Garrosh or Sylvanas. I can't speak for them. But I hold both of the factions to task for their actions. It is why sometimes I think WoW needs a hard lore reboot. Start things back from the beginning after Frozen Throne. Blizzard has irreparably damaged the New Horde as a faction of equal moral standing of the Alliance.

[cparle87]

Wait, when were the Maghar mind controlled? I must've missed this plot point, but then I never did the scenario until after we got the pandaren version.

I was talking about the original orcs. KJ finds Draenor BECAUSE the draenei are there, sees the orcs, goes "ooh I can use these guys to get revenge on the draenei whom I hate" and the rest is history. Velen flat out says they had to evacuate lots of worlds in a hurry cause the Legion found them. You wanna bet some of those worlds had intelligent life that got wiped out cause the draenei chose to settle there? If you're being chased by the Legion, I feel it's criminally irresponsible to settle on a world that has intelligent life, you're putting them at risk.

[Verdugo]

Forsaken should all be much more radical and aggressive like Yrel, SW visions Alleria, and Putress.

They were, but current writers decided that Anduin is what every playable race should aspire to be. Remember?

[Tripzzz]

They were, but current writers decided that Anduin is what every playable race should aspire to be. Remember?

Nope. They should be much more anti-life. That means not even working with the Horde who are made up of living races.

[Sangris]

Both are light-worshipping Draenei. I doubt the Mag'har would give a toss whether they're killing Lightforged or -bound. They're all the same to them.

[Tripzzz]

Basically DKs and Forsaken should be it's own faction.

[Sangris]

Ahhh, I see.


EDIT: Found some interesting quotes from her. This girl is damaged.

It's basically the Draenor history with reversed roles.

[TheRevenantHero]

Sorry to learn you haven't been paying attention to Blizzard's messaging. Whenever an Alliance character is racist, it is held up as a horrible villain. Horde can merrily be racist as they like and not a peep is made.

- Garithos. Blood Elves (and their fans) lump all humans as just like him, and use it to excuse betraying their former allies by joining the Horde.

- Arthas. Again, Blood Elves (and fans) wail that a human led the attack on them, so all humans are bad, never acknowledging mind controlled death knight.

- Daelin. Instead of "he's acting rationally, pursuing the orcs in case they're trying to gain strength to resume the Old Horde's work", he's tarred as an irredeemable racist villain, refusing to understand the orcs are now different. (Honest we are! Please ignore our violent escape and everyone killed during it!)

In those cases, the Horde are racist in "all humans!" Horde characters routinely refer to entire races in the Alliance in negative terms. Not a peep against it.



Want some Alliance characters that formerly put Horde races in one bad basket, but were later "educated" and explicitly shown to be wrong, including public statements of their new knowledge?

- Varian: At ICC, he acknowledges the Saurfangs as more than monsters. By Legion, he's openly saying he believes like Anduin.

- Genn: Has stated he no longer believes Forsaken means automatically evil.

- Jaina: Post-Theramore bombing, understood the Horde were monsters. Fast forward to today, all is forgiven. Bonus points, her own father is dragged through the villain mud. Again.


Now, how about Tyrande? After suffering two mass slaughters of her people (first one was actually rewarded in ceding Azshara to the Horde for peace), she finally is through taking whatever the Horde dishes out. Is she praised for wanting justice for the mass murders, for the Horde breaking their treaty, for an atrocity against her people? No, she's slandered as "consumed by vengeance" and otherwise heavily shown to be in the wrong, blaming the whole Horde when clearly Sylvanas was just busy as hell and a master illusionist who tricked everyone into seeing a Horde army.

Maybe Yrel? After all, her sister was sacrificed to the Void, her people tortured and slaughtered, their souls used as fuel for warlocks, all because some strange orc said so. Anyone rational would say "never again" and work to end the perpetual threat of the orcs turning on the Draenei again. She takes the approach of converting orcs to the Light instead of returning the favor of slaughtering them. Is she presented as merciful? Nope, she's obviously a racist zealot!

So again, racism is ok when the Horde does it.

Hilarious that you just conveniently don't mention literally any Night Elf lore character, Turalyon, and Genn's exceptionally racist mindset of the rest of the Horde races. Yeah, sorry but the Alliance is the faction that is excused for being racist. I NEVER see people defend any Horde racism. The only people who say that the Horde being racist is ok are always Alliance fans.

[AcidicSyn]

Once again, the acts of one person doesn't make a entire race racist. He was vilified and in the end he was killed, you don't see anyone trying to claim he was a hero...

But on the other hand you have people who to this day glorify Garrosh...you have plenty of people who love Sylvanas. Don't see many if anyone who actually love Y'rel, and like Feanoro said, she converted not killed the Orcs.

It's all double standards...all are perfectly fine when the Horde does it...

Daelin was racist. Yet there are plenty who absolutely call him hero (don't need to play too far into the Alliance campaign in BFA to hear folks, hell they wrote a whole song about how he was great and his daughter was a traitor. The latter points get resolved, but they still loved Daelin)

Garrosh was racist, he legitimately felt Orcs were a superior race.

Sylvanas is not racist, she's insane and wants everyone dead. Unless "Alive" is a race now.

Yrel is not racist. if she was she would not be accepting "lesser races" into the order and cleansing the land of them instead. She's a religious zealot, a fanatic, on par with the Inquisition, but not racist.

[The Butt Witch]

Who gives a shit? Just more orcs to kill.

[AcidicSyn]

Basically DKs and Forsaken should be it's own faction.

I'd have loved this back in the day. If Horde got Ogres instead and Forsaken/Undead were their own third faction with undead versions of other races filling out their own ranks and DK for their unique class against Shamans and Pallies.

[Maxilian]

They don't see that big of a difference, and the LF Draneai do also have the idea of "forceful" conversion, though they don't practice it, much at least.

Either way, none of the sides go out of their way to hunt the other, so its racism without the whole acting on it.