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  1. #21
    Dreadlord
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyris Flare View Post
    I think the spec basically plays fine on live other than being too reliant on wings (and numbers-wise it is on the low side), but utility is still the big problem. I feel like word of glory was one of the major tools ret brings to m+, and being nerfed to one target is a big kick in the mivonks.
    I think the spec play barely adequately on live with tons of Haste. You still get gaps where there's nothing to push and you're just sitting there, and there's nothing you can do to remove those if the RNG feels like sticking it to you. Increasing the CD of Blade will make this worse, and likely force players to choose between talents that help fill the gaps (badly) and whichever ones bring the most DPS. Either way, that feels bad.

    From late LK through to MoP and even WoD Ret had a full or very nearly full rotation, and in Legion it got filled up the the later tier bonuses. Then in BfA they decide Ret has to feel like a poorly geared Arms Warrior and spend time just sitting there. Meanwhile Fury gets to run round with a completely full rotation where they get to show the difference between good and bad by choosing the right button to press. It's not often these days that there's much question of which button to press as Ret, other than sometimes wondering is one should use Wake of Ashes when you have 1-2 Holy Power because you want that finisher Right Now. Oh, and we lose that choice in SL too - Wake will only give 3HP, so we can't over-cap unless we had enough HP to use a finisher anyway.

  2. #22
    Will be worse without IT. Even one now massively helps smooth the gaps

  3. #23
    Think positive, Ret will have a guaranteed raidslot if Blessing of Seasons goes live like this.

    50% CDR for 30s for your mages? Check.
    20% healing throughput for 30s for your healers? Check.
    DPS boost for fast attackers like your rogues or your dot specs? Check.

    Ret's gonna be in every raid... at the very bottom of the charts, but still in every raid nonetheless!

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Gasparde View Post
    Think positive, Ret will have a guaranteed raidslot if Blessing of Seasons goes live like this.

    50% CDR for 30s for your mages? Check.
    20% healing throughput for 30s for your healers? Check.
    DPS boost for fast attackers like your rogues or your dot specs? Check.

    Ret's gonna be in every raid... at the very bottom of the charts, but still in every raid nonetheless!
    Blessing of Autumn translate to 15s CD reduction throughout it's 30s duration. Which isn't bad on yourself. But multiple non haste affected CD classes benefit the most. Mainly Fire mage since they get Phoenix Flame back.

    Blessing of Summer is better on yourself as the damage is Holy and likely to be affected by your mastery.

  5. #25
    Just imagine having 3-4 Pallies cycling Autumn on Fire Mages right now.

    I foresee another season of double Heal Paladin coming, probably accompanied by a bunch of buff bitch Rets - at least banner bitch Warriors and resource bitch Priests won't feel so lonely anymore.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryuji View Post
    I miss Zeal from Legion. Cleaving CS and hit like a truck. Dunno why it was replaced. Also still not a fan of fenagling about with Execution Sentence, Seraphim and Inquisition. Chances are there will be builds centered around using all 3 talents and I have only ever enjoyed ES when it didn't cost anything. Never liked Seraphim or Inquisition. but that's just my opinion so RIP.
    Ya that zeal was hands down my favorite talent.
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    - Sire Denathrius confirmed to have created the Dreadlords.

  7. #27
    the new blessing of seasons is a single target buff now, not really a big deal, will probably also be incredibly annoying playing with it having to put a 30 second buff every 30 seconds on someone depending if the next buff in your rotation is dps, heal or cdr, while at the same time maintaining your other uptime like sepharim or inqusition
    Last edited by apelsinjuice; 2020-07-16 at 11:09 AM.

  8. #28
    Herald of the Titans
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    Right now none of Covenants seem like 10/10 pick for PVE or PVP Retribution.

    Prot and Glimmer Holy have Kyrian, Night Fae looks like bullshit that no one would want to deal with in their rotation. Venthyr has nice teleport and clunkiest AOE, and Necrolord can offer some burst every 30 seconds.

    In both PvE and PvP i would choose between Venthyr and Necrolord.

  9. #29
    Probably cause Blizzard will never let rets live down their ability to quite literally twoshot people during WotLK prepatch.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Sigxy View Post
    This is something I've felt very annoyed by in BFA. Deals less damage - but has a cooldown.
    It's primary function is to build Holy Power. While I agree it's always silly for any ability to deal less damage than an auto attack, that's not the primary function of crusader strike, and it's cooldown has nothing to do with damage.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by kebabmasterxd View Post
    Why is blizzard against ret's being good?
    Personnally...the pb I had recently with ret design, was that devs tend to tone down the damage or utility of the ret while keeping the slow movement of the character, while some other classes get the movement monopoly, and keep the damage/utility.

    Plus the pb of the return of the necessary Divine Shield in PvP (in world pvp for the most part) or maybie it is just me.

    Finally, vanilla devs are no more for the most part, but this game has never been centered around the paladin quite the contrary. I still remember being feared ad vitam eternam by warlocks in PVP (@beginning right in Classic), while wizards just kept themselves out of range (fear is a 20" range spell), and warriors/rogues had their spammable interrupts.

    I have faith on Ion (Ion Hazzikostas, game director) though, he is very professional, he knows dang well his job and his position urges him to be impartial. Hopefully nothing is final. If you have serious doubts on the final verdict right now though, just make your voice heard harder (here, or on Twitter? - I never use Twitter).

    Cheers

  12. #32
    Paladins have been garbage since they implemented Holy Power, had a brief resurgence post WoD when HP was taken off of Holy and Prot. Those specs will return to the trash heap with Ret in SL with the return of Holy Power once again.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by ZazuuPriest View Post
    Paladins have been garbage since they implemented Holy Power,
    I do think that Holy Power is not the problem.

    Simply put Ret were perfectly fine in WoD with HP. In PvP they were a support spec that delivered (and in Legion a Dps spec that still delivered albeit differently).

    Now maybie the other specs won't be back for the best in SL with HP, but that will be a design flaw more than anything to do with HP (imo).
    Last edited by Aleax; 2020-07-28 at 04:55 AM. Reason: explanations

  14. #34
    just make Ret like this again
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApLg47hEezc
    Last edited by Lilly32; 2020-07-29 at 06:45 AM.

  15. #35
    Dreadlord
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZazuuPriest View Post
    Paladins have been garbage since they implemented Holy Power, had a brief resurgence post WoD when HP was taken off of Holy and Prot. Those specs will return to the trash heap with Ret in SL with the return of Holy Power once again.
    This is incorrect - Ret was fine, powerful and fun in late Cata, and in mid-late MoP (scaling issues and the short duration of Inquisition made it less than great early in MoP). WoD was okay with losing a number of things from MoP being partly compensated for with things like Final Verdict and having a huge empowered Divine Storm (the nerf in reach of that was fair, but it was so much fun when it had that "16 yard" radius that in practice meant 'half the instance').

    Legion Holy was the first time I found it tolerable since Wrath (which I loved), and the BfA version is okay but not great, IMO. I'm concerned for SL Holy, but not because of Holy Power. Rather, I'm not a huge fan of the Glimmer build - it makes Holy a sort of Disc Priest, and I much preferred the Avenging Crusader build - it was was made Holy fun in PvP during Legion. I have a feeling that Glimmer becoming a talent is going to mean that it either blows or it'll be mandatory.

    However, my biggest issue is Paladin mobility still being all about that stupid pony. Back in MoP and WoD the rough equivalent was sometimes taken by Holy, but Prot and Ret took either Pursuit of Justice or Long Arm of the Law. Now everyone has to take the crappy option, and all the interesting choices around it that Prot had in Legion are gone (sure, practically nobody took them, but maybe that could've been fixed by improving them, not tossing them out).

    I'm not wowed by the L45 healing talents either. Selfless Healer is really the only worthwhile option, and compared to what it once was it's weak. The others are terrible - Healing Hands feels like it'd be good, because usually you only heal people at low health, but it's worthless any time your LoH is sniped, which is fairly common. We can get a LoH CD reduction from Unbreakable Spirit anyway. Then there's Justicar's Vengeance, which hasn't been worth the space since early in Legion when, if then. It needs to do enough base damage that damage+healing per Holy Power is higher than TV's damage per Holy Power - it's a damned talent after all. At the very least it needs to get buffed by Righteous Verdict. Also, the healing done needs to be off base damage, not off final damage done as it is now (hit something on low health with RV and you get no effective healing from it because the overkill doesn't go through to healing, and if you hit something with a damage shield up, nothing happens). Does anyone ever take RV?

  16. #36
    Immortal Schattenlied's Avatar
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    Really hope Ret ends up getting a rework like Shadow just did... Even if not to the same extent, we need it badly.
    A gun is like a parachute. If you need one, and don’t have one, you’ll probably never need one again.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gasparde View Post
    Think positive, Ret will have a guaranteed raidslot if Blessing of Seasons goes live like this.

    50% CDR for 30s for your mages? Check.
    20% healing throughput for 30s for your healers? Check.
    DPS boost for fast attackers like your rogues or your dot specs? Check.

    Ret's gonna be in every raid... at the very bottom of the charts, but still in every raid nonetheless!
    Back to being buff bots baby.

    Blizz is really capitalizing on the nostalgia and implementing lessons learned from Classic. AND they're even allowing for 75% of people to make the wrong choice ensuring they'll never get a raid spot, just like with Dwarf priests!

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Schattenlied View Post
    Really hope Ret ends up getting a rework like Shadow just did... Even if not to the same extent, we need it badly.
    Not a chance, Ret plays really good on beta right now and most people agree that it's in a good spot, they have downsides just like every other spec does but it's not even close to needing a rework.

    MMO Champion forums are just a giant pit of negativity towards everything.

    Maybe people should actually play it before crying since i'm sure 99.9% of the people on these forums aren't in beta.

  19. #39
    Immortal Schattenlied's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeiVias View Post
    Not a chance, Ret plays really good on beta right now and most people agree that it's in a good spot, they have downsides just like every other spec does but it's not even close to needing a rework.

    MMO Champion forums are just a giant pit of negativity towards everything.

    Maybe people should actually play it before crying since i'm sure 99.9% of the people on these forums aren't in beta.
    I mean, sure, if you ignore all our dead talents and our trash mobility that we've been complaining about nonstop for 5 years, our constantly increasing cooldown times on builders despite complaining for all of BFA about the massive deadzone in our rotation, Retribution Aura even existing...

    Yeah, sure.

    Maybe go read the beta feedback thread, things are far from peachy.
    Last edited by Schattenlied; 2020-08-05 at 04:00 PM.
    A gun is like a parachute. If you need one, and don’t have one, you’ll probably never need one again.

  20. #40
    Maybe I was the only one that found it nearly impossible to enter a dungeon challenge group and not get the feeling that I was borderline carried.

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