Shadowlands is secretly shaping up to be a Super-8.3

[Vrinara]

Just reading what you say is making me think the Wrestling fan Community and the WoW Fanbase are both becoming the same thing. Shadowlands isn't even out. If you don't like it. Stop playing or go play Classic. The amount of times I've seen threads like this is kinda getting funny tbh. Waaah, Waaaah, Waaaaaaah. Is what I am starting to see. While yes, Feedback is good and I feel like Blizz is listening when it comes to SL, but the game isn't out. Hold your crying till it does OP.

[Doffen]

I'm skeptical.

My greatest gripe is.

Will they make the classes fun to play? If not, RIP. Because if they get this wrong. I have a feeling it's game over for a lot of people. Me personally, I've decided to tolerate the tier. Or heck, maybe I'll enjoy it, let's hope so.

The slowness, clunkyness and overall horrid decision to put all dps cds on the GCD just made the game feel terrible for a lot of people at the start of BFA. I'm not gonna lie. If that feel continues, they can do whatever miracles they want with their borrowed power. It's going to be another round of bandaid fixing whatevers wrong all over again.

Basically, get it right, and make it fun. Removing the GCD barrier would probably be one idea. No clue if they've done it, because I haven't kept up with the alpha myself.

Secondly. The reward system. If they make it so obnoxious that it makes me apathetic towards it all again. Yeah, same story here.

I agree with what you write here. I also hope the gameplay improves from what we got in BfA. I also hope skill will be a defining factor on how we perform instead of relying of too much procs and non-class stuff. I am also a bit sceptical on the gameplay part, but here is hoping. I have seen some minor improvement in abilities, but who knows how it feels to play. I do hope to get a beta invite so I can go in and try.

For the systems themselves I find them pretty much straight forward. I like that there is one kind on linear progression with soulbinds and how it all interacts. But there is always a side of me that is skeptical. I gotta try it first for sure. I went into BfA with the attitude of this is going to be fine. On paper now it looks better, but again, who knows how it will play in the long run. Same thing about the reward system too. I do hope they go through with that there will be less loot to get. I read that the end chest in a mythic+ will have one item in it. I predicted two, but they said 1 today. I just hope that upgrades are more meaningful this time around. It is something I do miss. You do get apathetic towards it like it is now. Or well, I feel that way too at least.

That weekly chest change is pretty nice though, I must say. To be rewarded with something each week after you did lets say Heroic raid, and 5 mythic+ and then get a variety of options are nice. It's okay with guaranteed loot, but not as much as we have had the two latest expansions imo.

[Nyhtt]

Obligatory weekly Renown grind
Obligatory weekly Torgast grind
Obligatory weekly Caps
Catch-up systems that require you to run stuff over-and-over on your alts until you've run as many times as your main in order to "start playing"
Forced stuff to do that doesn't include whatever it is that you like, doesn't include gearing and serves only the pupose of "not being behind"
Obligatory hours-long grind on every character before you start doing all of the above

This all just looks like 8.3 is right now, and 8.3 is easily the worst patch I have ever played hands down

Am I missing something? I really want shadowlands to take us back in the direction of good Gameplay, fun alts and so forward
Is there something I missed in the dev vlog?

From what i read Torgast isn't a endless grind you have a weekly cap, also you will have weekly caps on everything so it isn't an endless grind like AP. That way you can focus on more stuff you enjoy doing like M+ or Raiding. TBH if they left the game just gearing, M+, and Raiding this game would be dead. We need solo gameplay options. Look at WoD, raids was great, dungeons was great, nothing to do out side of that means you only logged on to raid. Who wants that I enjoy playing WoW.

Maybe I missed something tho

[GeorgeDb]

I mean they did to the point infinite stars and versatility were changed multiple times but you go and live in your castle of ignorance.

Never mind the fact they flat out ban corruptions in tournaments for balance reasons..

Versatile got nerfed once and it's not even that of a big deal, you lose like 5% if you have 4 of them. Infinite stars and other proc corruptions have being nerfed to the point that they don't deserve the risk to play with them.

I am currently over 2.500 in 3s, teams are playing versa/haste/gushing except palas that have the CD reduction build. And around these corruptions the game is fine, it's not optimal but it's playable. Meaning you can play, win vs teams if you play better and not because of corruptions or rng shit.

Which corruptions got banned in the last tournament? Everyone was playing versa/gush which were the superior corruptions and gushing was prenerf.

Phrases like "go live in your castle of ignorance" are meaningless, they actually devalue your argument because it addresses me and not what I'm saying.

[Edward Wu]

I'm admittedly on the fence about Shadowlands. I really don't know if it will be good or not!

[Dakara]

I really don’t want a repeat of the “Holy Paladin” problem... or <insert your spec here> if it applies.

Holy was rubbish at the launch of BFA, then along came glimmer. Even though it got nerfed, essences and then corruptions vastly increased our uptime on wings, and with CD reduction corruption builds, Holy Shock can be spammed at times. The point I’m making, 8.3 HPally is unrecognisable from BFA launch, and will likely be trash again at SL launch will all that removed... until we get Lego’s (maybe).

This is a major problem with borrowed powers and makes me very nervous going into SL.
Historically specs have always gotten better during an expansion with stats, especially specs that value haste as they can feel incredibly slow in the beginning. But “fixing” specs via borrowed powers is troublesome.

[Krakan]

Versatile got nerfed once and it's not even that of a big deal, you lose like 5% if you have 4 of them. Infinite stars and other proc corruptions have being nerfed to the point that they don't deserve the risk to play with them.

I am currently over 2.500 in 3s, teams are playing versa/haste/gushing except palas that have the CD reduction build. And around these corruptions the game is fine, it's not optimal but it's playable. Meaning you can play, win vs teams if you play better and not because of corruptions or rng shit.

Which corruptions got banned in the last tournament? Everyone was playing versa/gush which were the superior corruptions and gushing was prenerf.

Phrases like "go live in your castle of ignorance" are meaningless, they actually devalue your argument because it addresses me and not what I'm saying.

I just don't see the need to address you when blizz themselves disables corruptions in tournaments. It really isn't worth my time debating that you cant drink sea water with someone if they are dead set to drink it.

[GeorgeDb]

I just don't see the need to address you when blizz themselves disables corruptions in tournaments. It really isn't worth my time debating that you cant drink sea water with someone if they are dead set to drink it.

Some corruptions got disabled on MDI, not on AWC. My original comment was about PvP.

It really isn't worth my time debating that you cant drink sea water with someone if they are dead set to drink it.

Don't overstimate the worth of your time.

[Nebron]

I replied this question in the 2nd page:

and on this page as well

You know, I always perceived mandatory things to do as part of the gameplay. It's really a tough thing to balance in my opinion. I can't imagine getting precious catch-up gear on alts once you have fully geared main character. Basically, you have 4 covenants, so by ignoring the alt progession through the main feature of Shadowlands, it would be close to a definition of autocannibalism of a content.

I can clearly see, that going through the same raputation grinds on every character over and over isn't fun. On contrary, it's pretty discouraging. Yet, there is a ton of work put into these systems and I can see the reason why they don't want to have everything account-wide or anything in that sort.

But to say that Shadowlands are going to be another 8.3 seems like a huge exaggeration. For everything I have experienced in the recent years of WoW, I'm a realist and hugely sceptical about any ideas, but to be honest? man, up till now, things sound really promising. It won't be the same "ol' good WoW", but still I can see A TON of improvements and polishing by feedback.

[Accendor]

As mythic raider - 8.3 is one of the best patches ever. Corruption makes gearing actually matter and not braindead equip the highest ilvl.
All my alts have nearly the same ilvl as my main with the same cloak level(takes 20 minutes a week per alt).
My classes feel super fun, fast, and rewarding.

Hands down, if SL ends up like an even better version of 8.3 we will have a very very good time.

Are you fucking kindding me? As a mythic raider I have never, never, never, experienced a worse patch than 8.3. I am not even talking about the completely fucked up lore and the non existing theat from Nzoth, I'll talk about the gameplay alone.

The first 2/3 of the patch you were chasing corruption and never got the right one, staying behind your team mates because the damage difference was immense in some cases (compary e.g. DHs with Infinite Stars with DHs without infinite Stars). The last 1/3 allows you to finally target corruption, but you are most likely at a point now where you do not need the corruption anymore that you chased before (again looking at you infinite Stars), because the last bosses require a completely different setup.
Class balance is out of the window for months now (Hi Firemages and BM hunters).
Horrific visions, which you are required to do, are the worst content ever produced. I don't know who thought it was a good idea to take every loss of control and slow effect in the game, something that players almost universally agree they hate (there is a reason the daze discussion comes up every few months) and create something that is basically ONLY THOSE EFFECTS. Best part ofc is when you misstep once and then get feared into a stun into a knockback into a disorient into a fear into a knockback out of the map. "Hard" my ass, its just annoying as hell.
And because that is NOT ENOUGH you have to farm a currency (Coalescing Visions) to farm a Currency (Corrupted Mementos!). Isn't that fun? But wait, there is more!
Assuming you do not get your BiS piece directly with a socket attached to it, the way to go is to RUN VISIONS TO GET THE SOCKETS. How bad can it be? Let me tell, its 275k Corrupted Mementos for 11 pieces of gear. If you do not push it to the max in 5mask runs you get around 5k a vision.
That are 55 visions alone. That means doing basically the additional bullshit this content has to offer, never fail a single one, never skip anything in it.
But you can not start directly with 5 mask, you have to do your damn upgrades again. I can not remember exactly how it was before the catchup patch, but if I remember correctly that alone was something like 20-24 Runs to even get your Back to 15. Ofc this also means all of them had to be perfect right from the start. As soon as you replace one piece of gear, its AT LEAST 5 new visions to play.

Realistically if you are a mythic raiding and did not go for world first, you have most likely done around 110-150 visions right now. I sure hope you enjoyed that awesome piece of content!

And don't start me with the "that much trouble for a single socket is not worth it". I am still playing DH, I put Versatility in my sockets, I can say you EXACTLY how big the difference is between doing it and not doing it. The answer is ~0.6% damage increase per socket * 11 = 6.6% and 3.3% less damage taken. That is just immense.

But srsly, fuck Horrific Visions, fuck Corruption, fuck Corrupted Mementos, fuck 8.3 and everything it stands for and I hope you drop your toast on the marmalade side tonight for defending it.

[Clozer]

Are you fucking kindding me? As a mythic raider I have never, never, never, experienced a worse patch than 8.3. I am not even talking about the completely fucked up lore and the non existing theat from Nzoth, I'll talk about the gameplay alone.

The first 2/3 of the patch you were chasing corruption and never got the right one, staying behind your team mates because the damage difference was immense in some cases (compary e.g. DHs with Infinite Stars with DHs without infinite Stars). The last 1/3 allows you to finally target corruption, but you are most likely at a point now where you do not need the corruption anymore that you chased before (again looking at you infinite Stars), because the last bosses require a completely different setup.
Class balance is out of the window for months now (Hi Firemages and BM hunters).
Horrific visions, which you are required to do, are the worst content ever produced. I don't know who thought it was a good idea to take every loss of control and slow effect in the game, something that players almost universally agree they hate (there is a reason the daze discussion comes up every few months) and create something that is basically ONLY THOSE EFFECTS. Best part ofc is when you misstep once and then get feared into a stun into a knockback into a disorient into a fear into a knockback out of the map. "Hard" my ass, its just annoying as hell.
And because that is NOT ENOUGH you have to farm a currency (Coalescing Visions) to farm a Currency (Corrupted Mementos!). Isn't that fun? But wait, there is more!
Assuming you do not get your BiS piece directly with a socket attached to it, the way to go is to RUN VISIONS TO GET THE SOCKETS. How bad can it be? Let me tell, its 275k Corrupted Mementos for 11 pieces of gear. If you do not push it to the max in 5mask runs you get around 5k a vision.
That are 55 visions alone. That means doing basically the additional bullshit this content has to offer, never fail a single one, never skip anything in it.
But you can not start directly with 5 mask, you have to do your damn upgrades again. I can not remember exactly how it was before the catchup patch, but if I remember correctly that alone was something like 20-24 Runs to even get your Back to 15. Ofc this also means all of them had to be perfect right from the start. As soon as you replace one piece of gear, its AT LEAST 5 new visions to play.

Realistically if you are a mythic raiding and did not go for world first, you have most likely done around 110-150 visions right now. I sure hope you enjoyed that awesome piece of content!

And don't start me with the "that much trouble for a single socket is not worth it". I am still playing DH, I put Versatility in my sockets, I can say you EXACTLY how big the difference is between doing it and not doing it. The answer is ~0.6% damage increase per socket * 11 = 6.6% and 3.3% less damage taken. That is just immense.

But srsly, fuck Horrific Visions, fuck Corruption, fuck Corrupted Mementos, fuck 8.3 and everything it stands for and I hope you drop your toast on the marmalade side tonight for defending it.

What this post tells me about you:
You are bad at doing basic mechanics in visions and therefore rant like crazy.

You could have socketed all you gear months ago and be done, if you do your simple 4 runs a week. And I don't really get how progression is actually a bad thing? WF guilds cleared the content with FAR less gear sockets etc, so all this is by no means mandatory at all. This is just you wanting things but not actually doing anything for it.

[Huzzaa]

What this post tells me about you:
You are bad at doing basic mechanics in visions and therefore rant like crazy.

You could have socketed all you gear months ago and be done, if you do your simple 4 runs a week. And I don't really get how progression is actually a bad thing? WF guilds cleared the content with FAR less gear sockets etc, so all this is by no means mandatory at all. This is just you wanting things but not actually doing anything for it.

Way to miss the point.

The interrupt to the gameplay flow is the point there. It's stupid AF annoying to constantly have to switch to dealing with another "Thing from Hazzikostas", "Slow from Kotick" and "Eye of Brack".

Also, chasing better gear and being on par with peers is a natural state for any high-end raider. Being on par is expected.

You call him bad at doing basic mechanics. What exactly implies this? You whipped this notion out of your rear.

I did 16or so vision 5-masks on my spriest a week or so ago and I agree with him.


The content is not fun. And for mythic raiding, it is among the worst patches, /agreed.

bUt yOuRe nOt ForCed to Do it - when's progressing your character in an RPG ever been a thing that you're not supposed to do

[Clozer]

Way to miss the point.

The interrupt to the gameplay flow is the point there. It's stupid AF annoying to constantly have to switch to dealing with another "Thing from Hazzikostas", "Slow from Kotick" and "Eye of Brack".

Also, chasing better gear and being on par with peers is a natural state for any high-end raider. Being on par is expected.

You call him bad at doing basic mechanics. What exactly implies this? You whipped this notion out of your rear.

I did 16or so vision 5-masks on my spriest a week or so ago and I agree with him.


The content is not fun. And for mythic raiding, it is among the worst patches, /agreed.

bUt yOuRe nOt ForCed to Do it - when's progressing your character in an RPG ever been a thing that you're not supposed to do

Stop acting like this is a never-ending vision grind that takes multiple days a week to complete for a perfect character.

If you did what you as strong and good mythic raider were supposed to do - you would be done MONTHS ago. But you clearly didn't.

[Huzzaa]

Stop acting like this is a never-ending vision grind that takes multiple days a week to complete for a perfect character.

If you did what you as strong and good mythic raider were supposed to do - you would be done MONTHS ago. But you clearly didn't.

Alts, rerolls, multiple gear sets, multiple specs.

What about those?

I play: Holy/Prot/Ret paladin, BM hunter, Holy/Disc/Shadow Priest.

It isn't never ending, you're right. But I like to deck em all out. For me, it will be "never ending". And for a lot of other people in the reroll boat, it probably was as well, far more work than those who didn't have to.


In fact, if I start thinking further and bringing in PvP gear, it gets worse. And in there, you will always want to be the best, no matter of what time of patch were in(irregardless of raid status).

[Mrbleedinggums]

I started it at The Black Temple in TBC, got my first gladiator title in WOTLK as shadow priest, as a PvPer that does some mythic raiding and generally enjoys alts, there isnt something as bad as this. Obviously it depends on what you do and the level you play the game, but at least for me 8.3 felt like the bottom of the barrel.

8.3 vs Dragon Soul patch. Go!

[minkage]

8.3 playing multiple alts has kinda become a slog and ive just stopped playing completely lately.

Having to do 3x assaults > 5 mask visions > daily x4 WQ's > mythic+ on 5 toons was starting to feel like a boring grindy job. I understand it was a self imposed job but still I felt compelled to keep on top of everything.

[kodemonkee]

I'm admittedly on the fence about Shadowlands. I really don't know if it will be good or not!

Yep that is why I still haven't pre-ordered, the first expansion I didn't pre-order since Cata release. Everything they showed so far doesn't hype me up that much, looks like BfA with more systems on top of it. Sadly the class changes don't hype me up too (BfA made me quit my Afflock which I played since the first time I have played WoW).

[Demithio]

And your were expecting what from the super corporatized Blizzard Entertainment?? Deep, thought provoking, content? A meaningful push for community and continuity? Happy and passionate developers that have FUN and actually care about your experience??

[keldarepewpew]

shadowlands is looking amazing preordered that shit.

[Huzzaa]

I don't think I've ever pre-ordered anything.

Hopefully never will.
Cyberpunk was on my mind some time ago but luckily never got anywhere.