Best way to bring out the stars in the Kaldorei (Children of the Stars)?

[AngryCoco]

I didn't bother reading every single post so I don't know if this was brought up, but druidism was not something Night Elves used until Malfurion started studying under Cenarion. Before that they worshipped Queen Azshara, the stars and Elune and their civilization looked much closer to the one preserved by the Nightborne.

[Mace]

I think, and I'd like your point of view on this, it's just a matter of strict representation.

Little premise: I'm a designer. So I tend to notice certain things.

If you get to a Blood Elf outpost, any given outpost, you just know you're in one. Unless it's some undercover business the red and gold of the children of the sun is immediately apparent.
Now, by memory, if you get to a Night Elf outpost you see a couple moonwells, but the Kaldorei have no leading unity whatsoever, not even druidism, that's properly displayed and gives them a visual a-ha.

Think of silver and blue, the lion crests for Humans. Think of spikes and jagged metal of the Orcs.

Wouldn't it just work to have the Kaldorei being pushed in a star and moon direction, a bright white weaving. Think the Nightborne but less purpley heavy timewarping arcane and more delicate harmonious balancey white.

Yeah, interesting observation, they have yet to have that unifying theme, and it should be the stars. Imo, whether you’re in deep forest with a ll the nature, you get the stars, whether it’s high civilization in your wonder city, yo have the stars, in your religion you have the stars that tell you things, give you prophecies and and portents, and in culture you have the stars.

Visually how does this pan out? You have that silver theme and elegant white structures – this is kaldorei at heart. Now what people now do is rather than attribute Nightborne as being kaldorei, they divorce them – and I suspect faction motives here, because it’s like divorcing high elf and blood elf when it comes o things like aesthetics and themes, it’s a nonsense, because they’re both the same race/culture with minor variation. People are just too thrown by the different way pre-sundering kaldorei looks, they just can't imagine the night elf model in that setting despite the Suramar intro video - maybe it's cos they don't read the novels and base everything on the limited view point the game shows.

@ravenmoon Generally, i feel a bit misled, which annoys me, I feel the night elves were named and presented one way at the start, and the development hasn't done them the justice - it's like they greatly watered them down and didn't develop them greatly. I think that's my angst which keeps drawing me to defend them and promote them.

I mean it is a bit whiny of us, they don't owe me or you anything nor are they obligated to do the best over the thing about warcraft we like the most. But I do hope they can understand when fans fall in love with their stuff, they gain certain expectations of them, and while they have no obligation to fulfil it, I mean, this is why and how they gain fanbase and respect/admiration as well as $$. But I know not everyone cares, and they're under no obligation to care. Most of the people who outlined and set up the night elves including thier early development in book and game are long gone, on other projects etc, it's hard for them to care about little things like a race, as long as the overall theme is going, they have bigger things.

Shame they kinda stop being fans and having faves, it too often feels these days like part of warcraft has lost its soul, that painstaking tlc detail seems to have been slowly etched away. It's strongest in the arts team though, but it's usually the story that carries the concept which the art can build on.

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I didn't bother reading every single post so I don't know if this was brought up, but druidism was not something Night Elves used until Malfurion started studying under Cenarion. Before that they worshipped Queen Azshara, the stars and Elune and their civilization looked much closer to the one preserved by the Nightborne.

Their civilization IS the one preserved by the Nightborne, the Nightborne culturally continue the Highborne kaldorei aspect of the culture, but in the same setting, having managed to preserve the urban environment during the sundering.

Without the priesthood, only the Highborne culture endured unchanged, so in a sense the Nightborne are a part of the pre-sundering package of the night elves, but visually it's exactly the same, the other parts are seen in the current kaldorei, who also have Highborne whose culture mirrors that of the Nightborne.

Let's just say you get the pre-sundering environment, i.e. the Highborne motivated living spaces with the Highborne (they aren't visible on the night elves, though they should be - it's just like the High elves who don't have the assets like the city and land visible on their group), but from what the story tells us, we know it's the same thing, even if the Nightborne look a little different physically.

[Selastan]

@ravenmoon @Mace

I think that the Night Elves are suffering from a loss of identity myself. Every time I explore around a Night Elf zone, its lots of trees, wilderness, and ruins. The Night Elves used to be completely different. They used to be about magic and society, they built the greatest empire on the planet, and yet with the Sundering they abandoned ALL of that. They let their cities go to waste, they stopped building monuments of stone and magic, they exiled all their mages across the sea or down to Feralas. Yet they still called themselves 'the Night Elves'. They are so much different now. Hell, the Nightborne, the remnants of that empire locked in time beneath that bubble, might have physically changed, but I would say they are closer to that original Night Elf than Tyrande's followers. Even the exiled Highborn who evolved into the High Elves are closer.

And yes, while the current 'night elves' are canonically nocturnal, the fact is that they completely abandoned everything that a 'night elf' was while they still get to keep the title. When the High Elves switched from arcane to fel energy, (and later still to Holy) they abandoned their name and became Blood Elves. When certain Blood Elves embraced the void and were exiled, they became 'Void Elves.' Night Elves are holding onto the very same past they purposefully tried to kill, while every other member of their expanded race has evolved and moved on. That's why I think they need to move on. Evolve their society and stop mourning over once was. They want to be guardians of nature and the moon, so be it. Go in full for that. Rename your race 'Children of the Tree' in honor of Teldrassil. Either the 'Night Elves' ARE Nightborne, or they are dead.

[ravenmoon]

@ravenmoon @Mace

I think that the Night Elves are suffering from a loss of identity myself. Every time I explore around a Night Elf zone, its lots of trees, wilderness, and ruins. The Night Elves used to be completely different. They used to be about magic and society, they built the greatest empire on the planet, and yet with the Sundering they abandoned ALL of that. They let their cities go to waste, they stopped building monuments of stone and magic, they exiled all their mages across the sea or down to Feralas. Yet they still called themselves 'the Night Elves'. They are so much different now. Hell, the Nightborne, the remnants of that empire locked in time beneath that bubble, might have physically changed, but I would say they are closer to that original Night Elf than Tyrande's followers. Even the exiled Highborn who evolved into the High Elves are closer.

And yes, while the current 'night elves' are canonically nocturnal, the fact is that they completely abandoned everything that a 'night elf' was while they still get to keep the title. When the High Elves switched from arcane to fel energy, (and later still to Holy) they abandoned their name and became Blood Elves. When certain Blood Elves embraced the void and were exiled, they became 'Void Elves.' Night Elves are holding onto the very same past they purposefully tried to kill, while every other member of their expanded race has evolved and moved on. That's why I think they need to move on. Evolve their society and stop mourning over once was. They want to be guardians of nature and the moon, so be it. Go in full for that. Rename your race 'Children of the Tree' in honor of Teldrassil. Either the 'Night Elves' ARE Nightborne, or they are dead.

Thank you. this is the conclusion many have reached. We've talked about them in depth amongst ourselves and other folk across various forums and discord channels. I find it increduulous that horde fans want it to remain forest and ruins rather than forest and cities - but the biggest general consensus is that the reason for this uncertainty is neglect. They dropped the Night elves.

It explains EVERYTHING:
1. Why every cool feature is nerfed
2. Why they appear so weak in game
3. Why it's no development after the initial levelling zones in classic until you come to cata - which is:
4. Cata : Piss poor showing of night elves - whether as sentinels, or mages, or druids they SUCK
5. The human sidekick syndrome
6. The lack of development of their return to society and restoration
7. The lack of development of their Moon Priest order and roles
8. Lack of development of the civilziation side and more cultural showings
9. Evidence of the night and stars playing a huge role in their visual identity

Did you not notice how much more of a "night " city Suramar felt like? - you have no doubt the nightborne are night fol.
@Mace, yes Legion was a much better showing, but @EnigmAddict makes a point that it hasn't gone in that direction or pace since then either.

Legion seemed a great start, but the moment was broken up with the Nightborne going horde, it didn't have to be, could have found a wya to make it work, but they didn't. Then night elves are sacrificed once again in WoT.


ALL of this is because they were dropped. Like a record label that dropped an exciting band, because they wanted badly to work on the profile of the horde band, so through the kitchen sink at it, and in time got use to it, so a cool band like the night elves, just failed to get the development they could have had.

They are full of wasted potential. And of all the things to fasten on, they go for most boring wood elf trope, not even the wonders of the forest are properly displayed, never you mind adding the wonders of the kaldorei civilziation, their magecraft, their mystical priesthood and the edgy demon hunters - who at least got some expsure in Legion.


One word - NEGLECT. All the attention went into the horde races and the humans (for the alliance), you literally see no one else developed properly outside their opening expansion till you meet the night elven history in 7.0, and that is walked away from so quickly, as 7.1 brings in the blood elves, 7.2 scraps Tyrande's role in the broken shore replacing it with Class order halls and more Legion nasty, 7.3 goes to Argus, the only trace of the night elves is in Illidan's role - dumbfounding given the historical importance and relevance of Suramar, Val'sharah, the Legion are tot he night elves. Funny how most of the 7.0 night elf material was not doing much with the Darnassian faction, the Darnasisans show up as the tattered rag tag alliance contribution in 7.1 - they are not involved in the demon hunters, wardens, val'sharan, Azsuna, Moonguard or Nightborne (until 7.1) - i.e. faction neglect (f not racial one). Not one great act of magic or skill is displayed by a Darnasisan (Farondis, Moonguard, Nightborne, Farodin, Illidari, Illidan - none of these are Darnassian related - as if to continue the alliance nerf trend), should have seen the Nightborne would go horde, too amazing for the nerfed target on the alliance back.

Then it skips over to them being wiped out, pure victim, nothing about the reaction to the destiny re-aligning and identity restoring destruction of the Legion and cure to arcane addiction - I mean.. we meet the night elves in Elegy/Good war as if it's another normal day and huge events like Illidan a hero not betrayer, Azeroth a world soul, Legion destroyed having no impact.

why, because the story is not a bout the Night elves, they're pawns here, the object to be destroyed to advance the story of Sylvanas Windrunner and the horde capturing Kalimdor.

Till Legion, no one had made much noise about the night elves, I know this because i was one of the few that ever had anything to say on any of the boards, blood elf posts were far more popular, as were human (Jaina/ANduin/Varian etc) posts, so were orc ones, with the editorial focus on the horde, ofc Night elves once hugely popular were in no man's land mostly.


It's a wonder they remained so popular despite being treated so horribly. All the changes so far in 8.0 starting with Darkshore warfront are because of fan noise. Danuser and Afrisiabi would have ignored the Night elves. It is also why the horde somehow managed to grab the Nightborne, as as ub race with such glitter and sparkle the horde fan base could ignore they were kaldorei - they literally didn't care. and satisfying them was more important than developing a story properly.

If 7.3 had shown as a void elf civilization with the current art, and Alleria rescuing them from portals in Mac'aree with them joining the fight at a last minute, in what would have been a much better intro, wanna bet that hordies would have dropped the Nightborne in favour for the void elves. or likely demanded both and got both.

When you look at the politics and out of game incidents, you get to understand exactly why we find ourselves in the place we are. The reason people like Mace and I are talking a lot about this shit is to show people what's going on. I am fully aware what's been shown of the night elves currently and what was in the past. It's much better now than before, but it's far from where it should be also.

Now fans of other races just despise elves getting any attention, so I have to fight both the horde elf fanbase, and all the elf haters (horde and alliance) in these discussions. But hey, night elves excite me, gnomes and trolls do not. They can make topics about their races, funny, you'll never see me come on their and announace how Gnomes shouldn't get this or shouldn't get that, or challenge the depth to which they have explored and mapped out Troll lore.

But would they extend the same courtesy? hell no, it's attack mode for them, and the saddest thing is to see neutrals fall for it, and you know they haven't rad what you said. But this is nothing new at all, we see people easily manipulated by just following a crowd rather than stopping to think about what the person is selling or read all the notes.

[Mace]

@Selaston , @ravenmoon

To me I'm more interested in things that are not really seen in other fantasies. I know wow doesn't have original races as such, but the way they develop and they do the races can be very original, in some cases more so than others.

No one wants an elf to be a savage feral, that's not what the elf species type is. So within what the species type represents, what about your elves is unique?

night elves originally being a combination of forest elves and dark elves is original
T"the best of the dark elves combined with thebest of the forest elves" promises something
The stars being the focus is also quite unique. No one has done star elves, they don't literally have to be from the stars, but having a star focus and a high level is quite unique - the way they placed star/moon magic as racial thing for the night elves is actually fascinating - they need to expand on this.


Forest: roaming forests with bows, and living literally in trees is NOT unique. Living on top of a tree with land forests and city - now that was unique.
The way they designed Suramar and Zin'Azshari warbringers has never been seen for elves either - it's a combo of Greco roman architecture, but with an intertwined nature theme - look at the gardens in Suramr, look at the rooftop parks in Zin'Azshari, look at the stonework interwoven with nature vines in Darnassus.
Forest elves don't usually have working trees, as part of the package or druids - which are usually a human thing in fantasy, however elves do a lot of nature magic in most fantasy, but it's not divided the way it is in Warcraft.
Elves having a massive global and the most advanced civilization is also unique. being beautiful is part of the elven package, but that humans don't have the highest level of civilization and achievement is rare, Tolkein elves though more advanced and wiser than humans, don't have a development in terms of civilization like Dwarves and men do. In LoTR the greatest cities are dwarven and human, but in Warcraft they're night elven.

In typical dark elf tradition, night elves are given the highest level of arcane mastery, this remains the case in the highborne caste amongst the night elves and the Nightborne, no one else is at their level of knowledge and expertise, though their power and ability can be matched, it is likely their knowledge and skill is unmatched. Thisi s very dark elven.
So is the matriarchal system amongst the night elves, but it's different, i'ts not evil , but good, and while they lead the people they don't dominate all lives of the night elves, they don't dictate the druids which are their own organisation, and they don't dictate the Highborne who have a terms of agreement with them. However their influence is through prestige rather than compulsion, everyone respects Tyrande Whisperwind as the voice of Elune, and will usually answer her call to whatever. This is ounlike various other dark elf groups like the Drow/Dwomer and others, where it's an authoritarian dictatorship.

The forest rangers are also female in a DC comics like Amzonian way, this is another twist. so while this does give the sense of a matriarchal society, the men aren't useless at all, males flock the caster specs like druid and mage. The Moonguard were notoriously all male, and while they were abolished in the main group during the long Vigil, the remnant that survive and the current need for them is likely to kickstart this largely male ssociation.

The demon hunters another unique group are largely male too. A smaller group, but the way they did the fel wielding elf is most interesting here, they made them actually good yet having this corrupt streak.in a way that frankly comes out rather noble to me. when I think of Altruis, Loramus Thalipedes etc, if you follow the quests in Outland, Felwood, Blasted Lands - these guys seem to befar from evil and actually are truly able to see the real evil, but are seldom given the chance by their kin who think they're allied with the Legion.

The story is fascinationg, but it does have conclusions, sadly blizz doesn't properly conclude and grow the faction accordingly.

e.g.

• When the Highborne were accepted back - we should have seen a growth spurt in both the arcane and in homes, cities and villages as this group is usually the progress and development innovators aof the kaldorei.
• We should have also seen them do some fancy magic - they were largely ignored development wise (like the rest of the night elves too)
• When Legion's reveal came and finally the demon hunters were vindicated, we should have seen some evidence of this, ranging from hero worship in male night elves to grudging respect from Maiev types, still mixed with caution because of how horribly scarred and fel stinking most are - it's not a pretty business, it's not something for normal society, they can't ever and probably don't want to be a part of, so they keep away, but they're always helping and are often needed - we should have seen them helping in the Darkshore warfront -
• Return of Suramar, the Nightborne, curing of arcane addiction - not explored either, the results of Legion should lift a huge burden of guilt off the night elves, and greatly restore national confidence in the arcane as well as a warning. The Nightborne are the warning on how warped you can become, but a cure is also completely here. The return of the city should bring back a lot of good memories of the things they did well during the pre-sundering era, whiles Elisande's behaviour should be reminiscent of Azshara and how crazy elves can behave. But for every Azshara ther e is a Farondis or a Thalyssra, and magical corruption is not unique to the arcane users as the nightmare druids experience - this should result in stigma off the arcane users, and shifted to abusers and violators.
• Also it means something that it wasn't your magic that's responsible for the legion, nor what the Legion was after - this is significant - and it would lead to a shift in arcane attidues towards embracing rather rejecting and not operating in suspicion.
• Legion's defeat: Everything from 10,000 years ago to present has been dominated by that, the Legion's demise should result in destiny re-alignment for the night elves, it's totally finish, you can go back to what you originally were before they arrived - and now is the time to explore that - opening up the "children of the Stars" meaning

[Piamonte]

Excuse me? Ravenmoon I think you need to lower your tone first.

First of all I have been against your view since the beginning of time, I am not repeating what some one else said, ooh nono I am repeating my own opinion to you.

Your view is just how you envision the night elves. 99% of the people who come here dissagree with your fantasy.

So obviously some opinion cross eachother or sound the same.

We dont want, what you want.. not very hard. You are some one who puts hes foot between the door when some one is closing it.. you dont need to convince people and specially not when you create 4 differnt thread in 6 months time with just more of the same. People are fed up and bored of your essays of headcannon..

I have a sticker at my door saing: no relegion people or other uninvited guests, also no newspaper etc.

I get crazy vibes with you being some.one like that.. I realy dont like that. So if you continue pushing this so fanatical I will have to report you.

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I asked the same question.. and also pointed out I had concerns taking stuff from the nightborne that makes them nightborne.. so whats left that makes them unique then??

He is autistic, he said it himself in another thread, so whatever you say to him is pointless, he is just not going to understand why his threads irritate people.

Infracted.

[Specialka]

He is autistic, he said it himself in another thread, so whatever you say to him is pointless, he is just not going to understand why his threads irritate people.

No wonder I thought the guy had issues.

[Sharnie786]

They don't irritate me, no one in these forums does because I have a choice to click on and read a post.

[Alanar]

He is autistic, he said it himself in another thread, so whatever you say to him is pointless, he is just not going to understand why his threads irritate people.

Its absolutely a fact that its pointless, its hes view only.. therefor a discussion has no meaning.

The issue here is that the fantasy debate between the 2 is moving across multiple threads, its like they are trying to convince people to an extend, which is weird..
Its not a problem for me when you set forth that discussion in 1 thread and stay there. You know maybe the new threads are just because they know the other ones will die out because of not much interest in general.
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They don't irritate me, no one in these forums does because I have a choice to click on and read a post.

Good for you, but I dont think you can speak for everyone, luckily.

[ravenmoon]

@Alanar Srsly, it's quite rude to discuss someone like this, you can have at least pm me if you have issues. You are complaining about me making a topic you don't have to respond to with your same arguments where you refuse to focus on the topic at hand, turning it into a discussion that is carried on in another topic.. and I'm the one not getting it?

If you jump onto threads my bro or I make making the smae point about night elves regardless of what any of us are saying, and you get challenged over it every time, then complain that it is reptitious, who do you have to blame?

I'm making a topic about a certain very particular aspect of the night elves, the race is one of my favourite isues I rely on a community to discuss, I just happen to like MMO champion community the most, but you don't have to respond to them and if you're sick of night elf posts, don't click on them, they are one in 100s, I maintain my right to make topics, and you're not hte only one responding tot hem, so if you don't like them is it not better not to respond?

I've appreciated your responses in the past, but if you can't get past your irritation over me aren't you making it worse?

@Selastan
i have a question for you, when you think of night elf does the opening cinmatic skimpy dressed Nelf female druid come to mind? or her sentinel version box art?
Or does male Malfurion like druid ocme to mind?

You see, I think above those two should be something more star/moon focused. I hope that if they give us a more detailed customisation for night elves they'd throw in star customisations.

Is till see the Moon Priestess and the arcane caster (Highborne or moonguard) as something that can be star'd up. in fact the stars is something that is common in ALL the night elf orders/classes/castes you name it. I know all have arcane capability/connection/aptitude, all have nature love and there is respect for Elune in all, but the degree of each of these varies enormously, I can confidently say that ALL love the stars.

[Beloren]

He is autistic, he said it himself in another thread, so whatever you say to him is pointless, he is just not going to understand why his threads irritate people.

Ohhh.. I didn't realise it, cos he can be quite eloquent sometimes, but it totally makes sense. Our responses have probably aggravated a lot more than they would other people.

[Tanaria]

One word - NEGLECT. All the attention went into the horde races and the humans (for the alliance), you literally see no one else developed properly outside their opening expansion till you meet the night elven history in 7.0, and that is walked away from so quickly, as 7.1 brings in the blood elves, 7.2 scraps Tyrande's role in the broken shore replacing it with Class order halls and more Legion nasty, 7.3 goes to Argus, the only trace of the night elves is in Illidan's role - dumbfounding given the historical importance and relevance of Suramar, Val'sharah, the Legion are tot he night elves. Funny how most of the 7.0 night elf material was not doing much with the Darnassian faction, the Darnasisans show up as the tattered rag tag alliance contribution in 7.1 - they are not involved in the demon hunters, wardens, val'sharan, Azsuna, Moonguard or Nightborne (until 7.1) - i.e. faction neglect (f not racial one). Not one great act of magic or skill is displayed by a Darnasisan (Farondis, Moonguard, Nightborne, Farodin, Illidari, Illidan - none of these are Darnassian related - as if to continue the alliance nerf trend), should have seen the Nightborne would go horde, too amazing for the nerfed target on the alliance back.
.

You are aware that it wasn't only the Night Elves, who hold ties to the Legion.
Literally, where were the Orcs in Legion?

Also, the Draenei hold deeper ties to the lords of the Legion...much deeper than that of any night elf.
The Blood Elves hold ties to the Legion due to the actions of Kael'thas and the Fel Crystals around Silvermoon.

The Legion is not just a "night elf-only" thing and Blizzard created a story which was a bit lackluster in some places, but in others - it was very good.
Blizzard wanted to use 7.0 to showcase a night elf history, but you can't run with that vibe for the whole expansion and just dedicate patch after patch to one race. Look what happened to WoD.

It was vital for the expansion's health that Blizzard brought the Blood Elves and High Elves in for 7.1. They were involved with two artifact questlines for Mages and Hunters and it was important to see their story develop because nobody can deny that similarities between Kael and Elisande, in terms of why they joined the Legion. You might only draw parralells between Azshara and Elisande but they couldn't be further apart in terms of why they joined the Legion. Azshara wanted a selfish world of perfection and joined the Legion, willingly.
Elisande and Kael both accepted the Legion's offer, because in their minds, it was their only way to save their people.

The Tomb of Sargeras in 7.2 was no longer the "Temple of Elune." It was something dark and sinister and involved everybody - especially the Draenei, due to Kil'jaedon being the last boss. What I'd call a badly missed opportunity would be to not use Velen as this was becoming increasingly, his story of going back to Argus and essentially, that was a core part of the expansion, right from when Turaylon sends X'era to Azeroth and deliver her to Velen.

Legion couldn't just dedicate itself to only being a Night Elf expansion. It started out as one, but ended with the main races being Draenei and Demons - both forces who know each other very well and hate each other. The Illidari Blood Elves and Night Elves were both involved in 7.3, but the focus had shifted to the Draenei, because it had to. No Draenei in the Legion expansion would have been a horribly missed opportunity and we did eventually see more Blood Elves in Legion, but that's because they also hold a somewhat-friendship with the Draenei, but also have ties to the Illidari and the Legion.

[ravenmoon]

My recommendation would be creating a sub race of night elves like Night elf worgen to carry on that pure forest identity, but have the night elves continue to have it’s broader scope.

• Should have an option to click for star effects too on hair as an alternative to vines or in addition to them.
• Should have star tattoos, like constellation patterns on skin, but instead they’re magical tattoos - this would look awesome for mage and priest tooons in particular, but would also fit more star focused druids/hunters etc (just like leafy hair can work on priests and even mages though it’s more a druid/hunter thing.
• Should have more diamond necklace, headpieces and earing jewellery too, and allow males to also have neck, head and earring pieces like this image here:

[/FONT]
Here you have the star drop like diamonds, and they coudl have an animation that make em twinkle/shine with power like the stars.[/FONT][/COLOR]

• An alternative they could have is instead of diamonds actual have magical effect like the balance druid’s astral form, with like star dust from glowing stars showering on you, and having variations of this.

That sort of star shows it:



then

by Mischki (based of GW2)



- GW2 concept


I mean these are just examples:

Skin star magical tatoos could look like a heavily toned down version of this: In warcraft, the Night elves use to magically imbue the constellation pattern of their star on thier skin, arcane casters and augurs would often use them as enhancements in magical spell casting, the tradition fell away during hte long vigil banning of the arcane, but continued amongst the Highborne in Eldre'thalas, while some used non-magical means to maintain it, since the ban on the arcane was lifted, the ancient tradition has returned and gained huge popularity once more amongst the children of the stars since the Legion's defeat.
e.g.

but a bit toned down.

[Tanaria]

My recommendation would be creating a sub race of night elves like Night elf worgen to carry on that pure forest identity, but have the night elves continue to have it’s broader scope.

• Should have an option to click for star effects too on hair as an alternative to vines or in addition to them.
• Should have star tattoos, like constellation patterns on skin, but instead they’re magical tattoos - this would look awesome for mage and priest tooons in particular, but would also fit more star focused druids/hunters etc (just like leafy hair can work on priests and even mages though it’s more a druid/hunter thing.
• Should have more diamond necklace, headpieces and earing jewellery too, and allow males to also have neck, head and earring pieces like this image here:

[/FONT]
Here you have the star drop like diamonds, and they coudl have an animation that make em twinkle/shine with power like the stars.[/FONT][/COLOR]

• An alternative they could have is instead of diamonds actual have magical effect like the balance druid’s astral form, with like star dust from glowing stars showering on you, and having variations of this.

That sort of star shows it:



then

by Mischki (based of GW2)



- GW2 concept


I mean these are just examples:

Skin star magical tatoos could look like a heavily toned down version of this: In warcraft, the Night elves use to magically imbue the constellation pattern of their star on thier skin, arcane casters and augurs would often use them as enhancements in magical spell casting, the tradition fell away during hte long vigil banning of the arcane, but continued amongst the Highborne in Eldre'thalas, while some used non-magical means to maintain it, since the ban on the arcane was lifted, the ancient tradition has returned and gained huge popularity once more amongst the children of the stars since the Legion's defeat.
e.g.

but a bit toned down.

Night Elves do have their broader scope, but Blizzard chooses which areas they really want to flesh out. For Night Elves, it's the Sisterhood of Elune, the Sentinels, Wardens and Druids.
It's not Blood Elf fans' fault that Blizzard focuses in on these sections of Night Elf society.

Night Elves have become more savage with the Burning of Teldrassil, because that is simply story continuation. It doesn't make any sense for them to lose that side to a sub-race, which is just a faction of Druids who went rogue in a form that Malfurion banned, after the War of the Satyr.
Night Elves are no longer the bestest of the best mages you want them to be. Get over it. Times have changed. One former night elf is the best Mage to have lived, but she has long since become a Naga.

Humans, High Elves, Draenei (as far as the Alliance is concerned) have done so much and it was Human Mages who became the Guardians of Azeroth. Not Night Elves.

[ravenmoon]

You are aware that it wasn't only the Night Elves, who hold ties to the Legion.
Literally, where were the Orcs in Legion?

Also, the Draenei hold deeper ties to the lords of the Legion...much deeper than that of any night elf.
The Blood Elves hold ties to the Legion due to the actions of Kael'thas and the Fel Crystals around Silvermoon.

The Legion is not just a "night elf-only" thing and Blizzard created a story which was a bit lackluster in some places, but in others - it was very good.
Blizzard wanted to use 7.0 to showcase a night elf history, but you can't run with that vibe for the whole expansion and just dedicate patch after patch to one race. Look what happened to WoD.

It was vital for the expansion's health that Blizzard brought the Blood Elves and High Elves in for 7.1. They were involved with two artifact questlines for Mages and Hunters and it was important to see their story develop because nobody can deny that similarities between Kael and Elisande, in terms of why they joined the Legion. You might only draw parralells between Azshara and Elisande but they couldn't be further apart in terms of why they joined the Legion. Azshara wanted a selfish world of perfection and joined the Legion, willingly.
Elisande and Kael both accepted the Legion's offer, because in their minds, it was their only way to save their people.

The Tomb of Sargeras in 7.2 was no longer the "Temple of Elune." It was something dark and sinister and involved everybody - especially the Draenei, due to Kil'jaedon being the last boss. What I'd call a badly missed opportunity would be to not use Velen as this was becoming increasingly, his story of going back to Argus and essentially, that was a core part of the expansion, right from when Turaylon sends X'era to Azeroth and deliver her to Velen.

Legion couldn't just dedicate itself to only being a Night Elf expansion. It started out as one, but ended with the main races being Draenei and Demons - both forces who know each other very well and hate each other. The Illidari Blood Elves and Night Elves were both involved in 7.3, but the focus had shifted to the Draenei, because it had to. No Draenei in the Legion expansion would have been a horribly missed opportunity and we did eventually see more Blood Elves in Legion, but that's because they also hold a somewhat-friendship with the Draenei, but also have ties to the Illidari and the Legion.

No the Legion isn't a night elf only thing, but they are the great arch nemesis of the Legion, as you know, all the post-sundering activity of the night elves is dominated by the legion, the entire long vigil and forest state is because of the legion, the change in lifestyle for them, the banning of arcane magic, the living on constant alert and guard.

Also the first to inflict defeat against the Legion and the spear head of the second defeat, it isn't co-incidence that the legion expansion returns to a night elf focus, they were the titanic counter race set up against the legion. Never forget the Draenei were retconned to be from the Eredar race which was cool, but also bear in mind I am not insinuating that the Legion only affected the Night elves, , just understand how much changes with their defeat and what it actually means to them.

Orcs got their liberation from the legion in Wc3, after a few years of enslavement. NElves and Draenei have been affected deeply for millennia having to adapt, live a specific way for millennia because of them. Blood elves should be blaming the legion, but they blame the alliance (according to some fans) and Arthas and the scourge instead for their woes. Humans should be blaming the legion too for Lordaeron, especially the forsaken but they blame Arthas and the scourge.

So it's largely Night elves, Draenei and orcs. of the three, the orcs we play are the only faction of their race that went along willingly with the legion. the Night elves and Draenei we play are the ones that stood against Sargeras.

[Tanaria]

Yes, Blood Elves and Humans blame Arthas and the Scourge for what happened to Lordaeron and Quel'Thalas; but the Lich King had also betrayed the Legion and Kil'jaedon.
He was acting and guiding Arthas, not because the Legion was controlling him to do it - but because he was acting along and guiding both Arthas and Kel'Thuzad before him, to the ultimate goal of Icecrown.

And the Legion is also the arch nemesis of the Draenei. Countless millennia, the Draenei were being actively hunted by the Legion. It was only Archimonde who wanted to strike at the night elves.
Mannoroth wanted control over the Orcs.
Kil'jaedon was chasing the Draenei and when he was close to getting them, he lured Kael'thas and the Sunfury Blood Elves in with ideals of saving Silvermoon with the powers of the Legion.

And the Blood Elves and Humans we play as were also the same Blood Elves and Humans who stood against the Legion in TBC and W3 respectively.

Also, the Blood Elves would naturally play a role in the story, if Alleria was datamined to be involved - especially considering Hunters were wielding her bow and it was through the efforts of the Farstriders, that the bow was seized from the Legion.
Just like how Aethas and the Sunreavers went about protecting Dalaran and relinquishing Lyandra Sunstrider of Felo'melorn.

We play a game where we have a diverse race pool. WoD is proof that only focusing on limited races, gives very poor story and quite bland of an expansion. It was only right that the attention shifted from being a night elf-only thing to a more diverse, everybody-involved, thing.

[ravenmoon]

Night Elves do have their broader scope, but Blizzard chooses which areas they really want to flesh out. For Night Elves, it's the Sisterhood of Elune, the Sentinels, Wardens and Druids.
It's not Blood Elf fans' fault that Blizzard focuses in on these sections of Night Elf society.

no, blood elf fans only focus on the sentinel, forest, druid sides, and keep ignoring the arcane and demon hunter evidences and signs, as well as activity.

• You point out the resurgence of using WC3 hunter/sentinel units in WoT, but ignore the arcane display of the Farondis, Moonguard and Nightborne in Legion.
• You also ignore the tangible presence of the Highborne leader in Darkshore warfront, BFA cinematic and night elf mage units in assault, only to focus on the hunter/druid kaldorei army used.
• You also ignore the arcane casting of the Night warrior and the black moon army to focus on the WC3 style tree and huntress units.
• Finally you ignore the very arcane ruins of Zin'Azshari and all the night elf lore and ghosts there in an effort to pretend like this part doesn't exist.
• You ignore the fair skin options, blond/ginger and purple hair colours, arcane silver and blue/silver eye colour, necklace piece, and neater fancier hairstyles on the new night elf customisations that all speak to their arcane, only to focus on the forest affirming leaves and branches

In an arcane denial

But most of all, you refuse to discuss the topic at hand about the lack of evidence of the stars in the night elves and ways they could bring it out only to try and force your view that blizzard wants them forest folk, and to tell fans who would like a bit more than that, they should stop hoping for more.

Night Elves have become more savage with the Burning of Teldrassil, because that is simply story continuation. It doesn't make any sense for them to lose that side to a sub-race, which is just a faction of Druids who went rogue in a form that Malfurion banned, after the War of the Satyr.
Night Elves are no longer the bestest of the best mages you want them to be. Get over it. Times have changed. One former night elf is the best Mage to have lived, but she has long since become a Naga.

Humans, High Elves, Draenei (as far as the Alliance is concerned) have done so much and it was Human Mages who became the Guardians of Azeroth. Not Night Elves.

Lose? What about gain? Did the Nightborne sub race coming about make the night elves lose the Highborne or their arcane history? Clearly not. Why would gaining restored Night elf worgen somehow make the night elves lose their druidism? Surely the night elven druid folk would working hand in hand with the night elven worgen and it would be a gain not a loss.

The night elven worgen can represent a full savage/feral forest side of the night elves that is not appropriate for the whole night elf race called children of the stars with their established background to become. They can also be given the name children of the forest in the elven tongue and something like Fangforest Worgen, which I agree would be best to fully carry on that aspect, whereas the kaldorei remain as some umbrella group.

[Tanaria]

Because night elf worgen aren't Sentinels or Wardens or Huntresses.
And it's not Blood Elf fans who are ignoring it. It's Blizzard. They are choosing to not focus on anything related to the current Shen'dralar Highborne.

They've written talented, Human, High Elf, Draenei, Blood Elf and Nightborne Magi which fill the roles. Their truly isn't any angle they can work with to actually make those mages stand out from the others. The feat of strengths the Humans and High Elves displayed during the early days of the Alliance of Lordaeron and the whole "Guardian" thing and the Kirin Tor...it was all established whilst the Shen'dralar city was falling further and further into decay.
Anything you boast about when it comes to Alliance Highborne is simply headcanon, because it's never been seen.

They may have been Azshara's revered Arcanists, but the Thalassian Magi and the Human Magi extend their knowledge from Zin-Azshari itself. Suramar's Magi also holds vast knowledge, which also impresses Sylvanas. Draenei Mages, as seen on Mac'Aree and on AU Draenor, is something that Blizzard was able to make work by being something different and interesting. It's none of these races' faults, nor their fans' faults, that Blizzard simply chose to make the Shen'dralar a very, very small part of night elf society and only using them if absolutely necessary. This is further proof that the past 2 expansions have had 3 zones dedicated to night elf mages and yet we've only seen Kirin Tor Night Elves (for the Legion zones) and Shandris Feathermoon and Faelie Seawhisper (both night elf huntresses) in Nazjatar.

In BFA, Ren'dorei, Humans and Kaldorei made up the 7th Legion Magi - but again, shared and the majority were in fact, Humans. I'd say that the next race of importance for the 7th Legion Magi were the Ren'dorei, due to them and Umbric being involved and then it was the night elves.
Night Elven Archers joined Jaina Proudmoore on her assault on Dazar'alor and you know who the Mages were in that scenario? Void Elves.

[Isilrien]

no, blood elf fans only focus on the sentinel, forest, druid sides, and keep ignoring the arcane and demon hunter evidences and signs, as well as activity....

No, we do not only focus on those aspects. Please do not lump all fans together; that is unfair. Neither do we who are also fans of Night Elves focus only on a few aspects of NE culture and history. You're not getting this: BLIZZARD is focusing on these aspects, not just some (SOME) of the fans.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm going to reiterate a point I've made previously as well in a previous thread, so many seem to pop up and all of them could've been mere posts in just one.

It is redundant for Blizzard develop the Highborne/Children of the Stars side of Night Elves when that aspect of their society is represented perfectly already with the Nightborne.

It adds nothing new and it doesn't make the Night Elves more unique. Blizzard is better off doubling down on the forest-y part of Night Elves if they want them to be unique and distinct.

He will not listen to you, but thanks for trying.

[Tanaria]

No, we do not only focus on those aspects. Please do not lump all fans together; that is unfair. Neither do we who are also fans of Night Elves focus only on a few aspects of NE culture and history. You're not getting this: BLIZZARD is focusing on these aspects, not just some (SOME) of the fans.

According to him, it's our fault that Blizzard chooses to focus on those aspects of the night elves.
He probably thinks we're sat at Blizzard HQ and holding the story developers at gun point, saying "Don't include nelf mages in the story."

If Blizzard are choosing to focus on these very "W3" aspects of the Night Elves, then shouldn't we be having a positive conversation about these aspects and where they might go, rather than a near-extinct faction of Mages who have been attacked and almost killed, thrice over or the Illidari Nelfs, who aren't part of the Night Elves of the Alliance, by lore standards (if Jace or Kor'vas is seen in Darkshore or Hyjal, give me a nudge won't you.) Just like Kayn and Allari aren't part of Silvermoon or the Horde, by lore standards.

When we Blood Elf fans talk about the Silvermoon forces, I don't recall ever seeing a Blood Elf fan talk about the Illidari Demon Hunters, because we know, by lore standards, they aren't part of the Horde, so it's foolish of us to talk about them.