Solution to the whole covenant problem.

[Seranthor]

That doesn't make it the right thing to do or the smart thing to do.

right and smart are both subjective terms. what might appear 'right' or 'smart' to you, might have a completely different meaning to someone else.

[temple1906]

right and smart are both subjective terms. what might appear 'right' or 'smart' to you, might have a completely different meaning to someone else.

This is not an argument. Blizzard clearly has trouble balancing multiple interlocking systems. This clearly has caused and continues to cause problems for the community at large. It is well documented. Evidence points to this not being the right or smart decision by Blizzard when it comes to making a fun game. Economically, sure. It probably keeps the whales happy and the MAUs up, but that's not what we are arguing here.

[socialmaker]

That would work or have people choose two covenants just like talent trees and swap them in capitals, this way multirole chars can have their desired choice and everybody wins.

[Raisei]

Just disable alternative power progression systems in instanced content and keep covenants ,ap, soulbindings as world only abilities.

Everyone wins then. People who play content that relies on balance get what they want and people who want to grind and never stop growing in power become demigods of the open world. Also opens up covenants for those who care about performance and lore by making the covenant not impact high end play.

Hard no.

Nothing is more boring then using powerful abilities against weak opponents. Try playing a Frost DK and find anything in the open world that survives more then a few seconds of Breath of Syndragosa, so it does not feel like a complete waste to even push the button. Same goes for all strong CDs.

I also do not understand why people hate the Covenants and other systems so much. With Corruptions I agree that there was too much RNG at first, now the system is very well balanced and everyone can do as much or as little farming as they want to get to the level they want to reach. Hard work is rewarded, lazyness is not. Makes complete sense.

If a system works as it should and does not have overproportunate amounts of RNG I see not how it can't be fun to play with. Do you want to have nothing but gear in character progression? That would get pretty boring quickly and you would reach your personal maximum very quickly. A few raids, a few weeks of M+ and you are done.
Then what? Complain how there is no worthwhile content?

Everyone wins but those weird people who want to force others into their game modes.

Uhm... you realize you are with this very suggestion trying to force others into your idea of how all group content should be played?

[FuujCraft]

Min-maxers are the real problem here and WoW is plagued by them. Choices in a RPG are important and WoW lacks a lot of choice. I hope they do not change covenants, just because people are reading some guides that tell them x covenant will give you a .3% DPS increase. I will play whichever covenant I like the most just like I do with my race. I play a Tauren Monk because I like her, even if there are races that have stronger racials.

Min-maxing is a thing for top end raiders, which most people are not. Maybe .5% of the playerbase should really care, but people think they have to be performing at their best when they can not even fully play their class at the maximum skill level. If someone performs better in Kyrian, even though Venthyr is the "best performing" choice, there is not a problem here at all.

[Krakan]

Min-maxers are the real problem here and WoW is plagued by them. Choices in a RPG are important and WoW lacks a lot of choice. I hope they do not change covenants, just because people are reading some guides that tell them x covenant will give you a .3% DPS increase. I will play whichever covenant I like the most just like I do with my race. I play a Tauren Monk because I like her, even if there are races that have stronger racials.

Min-maxing is a thing for top end raiders, which most people are not. Maybe .5% of the playerbase should really care, but people think they have to be performing at their best when they can not even fully play their class at the maximum skill level. If someone performs better in Kyrian, even though Venthyr is the "best performing" choice, there is not a problem here at all.

Min maxing exists to this level because content is so tightly tuned that it is required...

Even now not having full bear bis corruption and the strongest spec means you dont clear mythic.

Blizzard has never not tuned content this easy since tbc with the exception of the first tier of wrath.

To quote a rather successful pimp. Don't hate the player hate the game.

[FuujCraft]

Min maxing exists to this level because content is so tightly tuned that it is required...

Even now not having full bear bis corruption and the strongest spec means you dont clear mythic.

Blizzard has never not tuned content this easy since tbc with the exception of the first tier of wrath.

To quote a rather successful pimp. Don't hate the player hate the game.

This might be true for early mythic-progression, but mythic raiding participation is pretty low across the board. The average player does not raid on Mythic shortly after the release of SL. So what is the point to tailor the game to a minority of min-maxers, when it barely has any impact on most of the playerbase?

[Krakan]

This might be true for early mythic-progression, but mythic raiding participation is pretty low across the board. The average player does not raid on Mythic shortly after the release of SL. So what is the point to tailor the game to a minority of min-maxers, when it barely has any impact on most of the playerbase?

It's true though out. It's why you only really ever see 1 person carry runs being sold. Every member needs to be fully optimized. Even now a group with poor corruption has never killed n'zoth.

A better question isn't why tailor the game to this small group but why make this small group a part of the rest of the game? Cleave them free of the grinds have them disabled in mythic and suddenly everyone wins.

[Orwell7]

This might be true for early mythic-progression, but mythic raiding participation is pretty low across the board. The average player does not raid on Mythic shortly after the release of SL. So what is the point to tailor the game to a minority of min-maxers, when it barely has any impact on most of the playerbase?

Which Playerbase do you think they are tailoring this game then?

Can we agree on that fans of this game are in the forums, reddit and such? The fans who love this game and spend their time discussing it while at work, on commute, etc.?
Should Blizz tailor the game for those who didn't care at all and sub for 2 months tops?

[Dalinos]

you just use the wrong wording. not they „should“, but they „will“.

> 85% of all Druid players WILL pick Night Fae. I bet 10 pizzas on that. Its just how it will go.

Thank you...someone finally gets it.

Let's put it this way - you are a druid, and you catch a thief. The town militia captain gives you 4 choices.

1) you can murder him on the spot and res him as an undead (Necrolords)
2) you can murder him on the spot and res him as a blue archangel (Kyrian)
3) you can murder him on the spot and infuse him with vampiric-like powers (Venthyr)
4) you can murder him on the spot and bury him while conducting a ritual that will make his life-energy part of the surrounding nature (Night Fae).

As a druid, what would be the thematically correct choice of these 4?

And that's why most druids will go Night Fae.

For the same reason a Paladin would choose option 2 and a DK would choose option 1. Cause it just makes sense.

[VinceVega]

You are missing the point entirely. Mythic raiding is essentially an entirely different game at this point. He is saying that it doesn't make sense to make people that enjoy Mythic raiding do tons of content that they do not enjoy doing just so that they can do the content that they actually like. It does not affect anybody else in the game to make Mythic only settings for player power. What does it matter to you if he and his guild can step foot into Mythic on launch day without having to have done an insane amount of grinding to stand a chance? It doesn't. It has no effect on you whatsoever. It does not detract from the content that you want to do at all. It does not make your choices less meaningful. It simply eases the burden on the top end of players so that they can enjoy the content they like without feeling like they have to do the content they don't like. How would you like if you were in their shoes?

But you are just assuming, that people on top don't like the content.

Granted i am only 8/12 Mythic an probably won't go further as i have enough of nylotha. But i like the fact that everything interlocks in a way.

The grant argument on thsi forum right now: It is still an RPG. Keep it that way and deal with the stuff you have to do to be on top.
Maybe there are poeple on heroic and normal who also just want to raid and nothing else?

Or players in mythic+ or PvP? Where do oyu draw the line? You can't.

Wow is not a drop in kinda game. YOu invest and get the rewards. That won't change ever.

[SirBeef]

I've been following my own advice about this for years... If you aren't happy with what Blizzard is doing, then hit them where it hurts, in the wallet.

But you see, the biggest problem isn't the "brainwashed masses" or the "addicts", it's the ones here who constantly bitch and whine yet still play. Because the vast majority of player do not have a problem with these systems and changes. They are content to just play the game.

[SirBeef]

It's true though out. It's why you only really ever see 1 person carry runs being sold. Every member needs to be fully optimized. Even now a group with poor corruption has never killed n'zoth.

A better question isn't why tailor the game to this small group but why make this small group a part of the rest of the game? Cleave them free of the grinds have them disabled in mythic and suddenly everyone wins.

The game isn't tailored to them, that mode is. Nothing wrong with having something exclusive for those with the skill or desire to do it.

- - - Updated - - -

Uhm... you realize you are with this very suggestion trying to force others into your idea of how all group content should be played?

No, he doesn't see it that way.

[gortz]

Solution? hmm, delete?

[facefist]

This might be true for early mythic-progression, but mythic raiding participation is pretty low across the board. The average player does not raid on Mythic shortly after the release of SL. So what is the point to tailor the game to a minority of min-maxers, when it barely has any impact on most of the playerbase?

Modern players just love to min-max, even though it has zero impact on the content they are doing. Therefore the game caters to the people who WANT to min-max regardless of if it is required or not for the content they do. And that portion of players is surprisingly large.

Gaming is becoming more and more competitive, which can be clearly seen from the scene. Games with competitive elements are thriving, while casual games are losing ground. Wow needs competitive elements or it will die out, and gladly Blizz knows it.

[Seranthor]

But you see, the biggest problem isn't the "brainwashed masses" or the "addicts", it's the ones here who constantly bitch and whine yet still play. Because the vast majority of player do not have a problem with these systems and changes. They are content to just play the game.

I cant disagree with your assessment.

[Krakan]

The game isn't tailored to them, that mode is. Nothing wrong with having something exclusive for those with the skill or desire to do it.

- - - Updated - - -



No, he doesn't see it that way.

You are correct. I don't see how removing the grind aspect from mythic is robbing other players.

Let's talk a bit of brass tax. If all these systems didn't work in mythic, rated pvp, and mythic+ past the loot cap what issue if any would you see with it.

[SirBeef]

You are correct. I don't see how removing the grind aspect from mythic is robbing other players.

Let's talk a bit of brass tax. If all these systems didn't work in mythic, rated pvp, and mythic+ past the loot cap what issue if any would you see with it.

I wouldn't see a problem. It's not like they haven't made abilities, or items, and stuff in certain activities before. In fact I believe I suggested doing this a long while back.

[Ham on Rye]

MDI is done on its own separate realm. Arena Tournaments are done on their own separate realm. RBGs are not actually competitive and neither is pet battles.

I wasn't referring to MDI or Tournaments. Any situation where you are playing against other people is competitive. That's means pretty much all of PVP and M+ for people who focus on pushing keys and IO ratings & rankings.

[Krakan]

I wouldn't see a problem. It's not like they haven't made abilities, or items, and stuff in certain activities before. In fact I believe I suggested doing this a long while back.

I just don't get why some people push back against the concept so hard. Most players interactions with mythic players are a neigh unkillable dh or feral druid dropping from the sky to gank them.