What kinds of effects should replace XP on Heirlooms?

[Pohut]

thats fine, but then you should also get all the extra xp you gained using this "worthless crap", taken away aswell. Chars should be rolled back

That's fine. I don't mind losing all the extra xp gained by using heirlooms. There's not going to be a rollback though, because I got much more XP afterwards at max level to cover for that.

[gushDH]

In my opinion, heirlooms need to be replaced. They are obsolete. They had their use back when leveling was a series of expansions without any corelation. Now they updated the leveling process so there is no need for them. Old players can just get quest and dungeon gear upgrades.

[themaster24]

I will not argue with your first point. You are probably right, but as i said Blizzard can tune it to whatever they they want. But if leveling in beta will be too fast (and it probably will) they might tune it to the longer times.

About your second point: it is no secret that leveling in newer xpacs leveling is faster and more convenient than in vanilla, tbc or wrath. What that means that if you could level 60 - 80 in BFA today, it would be faster than leveling 60 - 80 in TBC or WRATH. Simply due to reduced travel times, more quests, everything more streamlined, etc. In SL, they will have to bring everything in line, because - correct me if i am wrong - you will choose single xpac to level 1 - 50 (or 15 -50 assuming new starting zone) and wont be able to jump between them. This means that Blizzard will have to balance all leveling xpacs to take roughly the same time, otherwise players will simply choose fastest one (Wod or BFA currently). So they will either have to increase xp in older xpacs (which i am sceptical of), or nerf currently fastest ones.

Bolded part first. I understand you have trepidation over the reported leveling times, but these are numbers blizz themselves are constantly repeating, not just players. They are touting that leveling in SL is going to be faster, they given hours and the frequently used "60-70% faster than leveling now" line. So it's highly unlikely that after all this time since they announced that fact with SL's announcement, given that they've continued to say the same things, that they will suddenly do an about face and make leveling take even longer. I know blizz has scrapped things in past development, but that's typically due to not having enough time or not being able to figure it out, something which is not the case with this.

Now, for the underlined. Every xpac is indeed scaled somewhat differently with this system, such that you should reach max level AROUND the same time, all things considered. However, part of their comment about "players being clever" and figuring out how to level faster does come down to how things might flow with certain xpacs. There might be certain quest/mob density in a certain xpac that might allow you to shave a couple more hours off your leveling experience. Blizz hasn't gone through every xpac with razor like accuracy to account for every little thing. WoD, for example, might end up being faster than anything else by a tiny margin because of all the little extra things you can do for xp that most other xpacs don't have, or don't have the same level as. Also, you can what xpac you are leveling in at anytime. You are not bound to the first one that you pick.

[Enty]

They're fixing the leveling experience and can't balance it with heirlooms. They can't with bonus exp because they either have to tune it to take into account the bonus experience or tune it to ignore the bonus experience.

They have stated that they want a fresh player to be able to get from 1-50 in a single expansion without added experience modifiers. Which means they have to balance leveling around the absence of those bonuses. Which means people who have them would get up to max level in 10-12 hours.

By removing the bonus exp from heirlooms, they can balance leveling. The only bonuses left will be the two potions (one of which is exclusive to WoD content) and holiday effects which they can balance around much easier.

Sounds justified to me.

Then tune leveling around new players with no bonuses. Do not balance it around bonus XP. Simple. New players will not have those bonuses and will take intended amount of leveling time, while players with heirlooms, WoD Garrison pots, BFA +5%XP pots, etc., will use those if they want and, most importantly, not use them if they want to level slowly.

Bolded part first. I understand you have trepidation over the reported leveling times, but these are numbers blizz themselves are constantly repeating, not just players. They are touting that leveling in SL is going to be faster, they given hours and the frequently used "60-70% faster than leveling now" line. So it's highly unlikely that after all this time since they announced that fact with SL's announcement, given that they've continued to say the same things, that they will suddenly do an about face and make leveling take even longer. I know blizz has scrapped things in past development, but that's typically due to not having enough time or not being able to figure it out, something which is not the case with this.

Now, for the underlined. Every xpac is indeed scaled somewhat differently with this system, such that you should reach max level AROUND the same time, all things considered. However, part of their comment about "players being clever" and figuring out how to level faster does come down to how things might flow with certain xpacs. There might be certain quest/mob density in a certain xpac that might allow you to shave a couple more hours off your leveling experience. Blizz hasn't gone through every xpac with razor like accuracy to account for every little thing. WoD, for example, might end up being faster than anything else by a tiny margin because of all the little extra things you can do for xp that most other xpacs don't have, or don't have the same level as. Also, you can what xpac you are leveling in at anytime. You are not bound to the first one that you pick.

I am indeed cautious about those numbers. But blizzard has a track record of saying one thing, then doing the opposite, so...

Btw, Des Mephisto just did 10 to 50 in 5hrs 33 minutes, no heirlooms, +30%xp from warmode, leveled in WoD with potion (available at lvl 35). He says WoD is a lot faster, while BFA taking 11 - 12 hours for the same range, while Outland (which i love ) and Northrend are unbearably slow. So this kind of prooves my point about zones being unbalanced and that there will probably be a number pass to bring them all in line (honestly, would be stupid if it there wasn't) and that this pass will nerf wod heavily to bring them in line with other xpacs.

In my opinion 10 hours for old content leveling ,which is boring and not engaging is too much.

Edit: one very important point i missed: Des Mephisto is a power leveler, with highly optimized routes, skills, times and everything. For average player that time will probably nearly doubled, and that might bring leveling time in old world close to 20 hours (in BFA). That would be unbearable. I sure hope i am very wrong here...

[Zantos]

Not "down the drain" any more than any of the other stuff we've done in past expansions IMO. It'd be like "ohh, all that mythic raiding down the drain now that shadowlands is out and my gear is now mediocre at best." I mostly used all that heirloom gear during Legion when we needed so many alts to see all the content.

Its not like mythic raiding. That gear, you know will be out of date by the next patch. Heirlooms have been around since Wrath, so they were never thought of as something that was going to go away or be replaced. People bought them and worked for them with the mindset that they would be around for good. So right away, they had a different mindset and goal by getting them.

[themaster24]

Btw, Des Mephisto just did 10 to 50 in 5hrs 33 minutes, no heirlooms, +30%xp from warmode, leveled in WoD with potion (available at lvl 35). He says WoD is a lot faster, while BFA taking 11 - 12 hours for the same range, while Outland (which i love ) and Northrend are unbearably slow. So this kind of prooves my point about zones being unbalanced and that there will probably be a number pass to bring them all in line (honestly, would be stupid if it there wasn't) and that this pass will nerf wod heavily to bring them in line with other xpacs.

In my opinion 10 hours for old content leveling ,which is boring and not engaging is too much.

Edit: one very important point i missed: Des Mephisto is a power leveler, with highly optimized routes, skills, times and everything. For average player that time will probably nearly doubled, and that might bring leveling time in old world close to 20 hours (in BFA). That would be unbearable. I sure hope i am very wrong here..

They stated their goal is 10-20 hours for experienced players, with the understanding that some players will find creative ways to level faster. Sounds like the system just needs a few tweaks to make OLD xpacs liven up a bit, and the system will work as intended. WoD will likely always be the fastest place to level, as they simply have too many things that they can't balance around as average players wouldn't be taking advantage of said things.

Furthermore, doing some light reading, people's leveling time right now, with the buff, varies from around 9 hours to around 26 hours (not including tales from those with 300% xp potion). If we are seeing leveling times (on alpha beta) currently around 5 hrs to 20 hours (which falls in line with their expressed consent), with the removal of heirloom xp and the game wide xp buff, that sounds like you are already considerably ahead. If Mephisto had full heirlooms, he'd have done the run in under 3 hours, which is patently insane.

Can blizz turn around next week and say "Nah, we changed our minds, we want leveling to take 40 hours"? They sure can. I highly doubt this is something they are going to do a 180 on though.

Its not like mythic raiding. That gear, you know will be out of date by the next patch. Heirlooms have been around since Wrath, so they were never thought of as something that was going to go away or be replaced. People bought them and worked for them with the mindset that they would be around for good. So right away, they had a different mindset and goal by getting them.

Heirlooms aren't being removed though. You can be upset that the xp bonus is being swapped with something else, but they aren't going away.

[Trinkie]

https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comment...utes_with_the/

Now everyone can stop complaining that it's gonna take too long.

[cocomen2]

Low stat gear-set, with set bonus +50% move speed (70% while out of combat)

1) Lvling with it would be not so boring.

2) Nice bonus for cap lvl players , to enjoy move speed buff indoors.

[Traveler Voltin]

https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comment...utes_with_the/

Now everyone can stop complaining that it's gonna take too long.

that is going to change. i hope you know that right.

[Trinkie]

that is going to change. i hope you know that right.

Why? It fits their goal of nerfing overall xp needed by 70% without heirlooms. That's with warmode and 10% xp pot.

[Traveler Voltin]

Why? It fits their goal of nerfing overall xp needed by 70% without heirlooms. That's with warmode and 10% xp pot.

5 hours to is too fast.
the goal is 10-20 hour average.(from a blizzard statement)

[shade3891]

Per item:
1% Movement speed
1% Avoidance
0,5% leech

[Danvash]

Movement speed on each piece and a glider cape.

[Tyze]

Gold

10chars

[Die]

The real problem is 10-20 hours is a stupid goal. That is such a small amount of time that the enormous effort Blizzard puts into revamping leveling is a total waste. They would be better off just handing out free max level characters.

[Traveler Voltin]

The real problem is 10-20 hours is a stupid goal. That is such a small amount of time that the enormous effort Blizzard puts into revamping leveling is a total waste. They would be better off just handing out free max level characters.

blizzard cares more about endgame than leveling.

[Die]

blizzard cares more about endgame than leveling.

They don't care about leveling at all. They should just remove it instead of wasting time with it in Shadowlands.

[Collected]

They don't care about leveling at all. They should just remove it instead of wasting time with it in Shadowlands.

First you say they put enormous effort into revamping it and then you claim they don't care about it at all. Which is it? Blizzard clearly cares otherwise they'd have just slapped on another 10 levels, raise the cap to 130 and told everyone to suck it up when they complained how long and how confused the levelling process is.

The opinion "I think sub 20 hours to level up is far too short" is perfectly valid without needing to throw around "they don't care" statements. There will clearly be people who think 1-50 is too quick. But there are a lot of people who think 1-50 is at a good spot right now. I think it's just about right personally. Not too short, not too long.

[Sharnie786]

I've spent A LOT of gold upgrading all my heirlooms. If they're going to remove the only reason I upgraded them then I deserve my gold back. Because had Blizzard said that they would have eventually removed the experience boost then I never would have bothered upgrading them.

Did you get any use out of them? If Blizzard decided to shelf WoW and close down servers would you ask for all your REAL LIFE MONEY back as well?

I've spent a shit tonne of gold too, however, i did it because I was using them. Another thing is with garrisons upgrading to level 100 was basically free depending on how many toons you had.

- - - Updated - - -

blizzard cares more about endgame than leveling.

leveling doesn't retain subs, endgame does.

[Scarnage86]

Just give back gold