Tips for bubble raiders?

[MatthewOU2015]

Im in a casual mythic guild and it feels like every week we recruit more people. The new people are doing incredible DPS and I'm barely holding on. We have 26-27 people sign up for a mythic raid and I manage to make the roster. I do sit for some bosses where I don't need loot but I can feel myself getting pushed out soon. Besides DPS any tips to stay competitive?

[Trend]

Im in a casual mythic guild and it feels like every week we recruit more people. The new people are doing incredible DPS and I'm barely holding on. We have 26-27 people sign up for a mythic raid and I manage to make the roster. I do sit for some bosses where I don't need loot but I can feel myself getting pushed out soon. Besides DPS any tips to stay competitive?

Do a google search for whatever your class is class discord. Go there and ask the same basic question in the appropriate spec forum and include links to logs. Then people who understand your class and spec can respond based on some knowledge without shooting in the dark. Ultimately if you're a DPS class you should be looking to increase your DPS while doing mechanics as well as you can.

[Gotural]

My best advice would be to focus on not dying and doing mechanics.

There is about a 0.1% chance your guild is not killing bosses because of a lack of DPS. Especially this patch, with so much added power through Corruptions, Cloak proc, etc.

Before I left the game two months ago, I was pretty average at doing damage, never first in any fight if people didn't die too much. But because I never died early in fights by always focusing on doing mechanics and dodging stuff, I was always the first DPS on the overall damage done of the night, first at uptime % and all that.

And this is factually better than doing uber DPS and dying somewhere from 10% to 30% of the pulls. At the end of the day, if everyone in your raid is playing like the top DPS of your group but is dying 20% of the pulls, a quick calculation shows that 4 people out of 20 are going to die, and if 4 people die, it's a wipe most of the time. On the contrary if everyone in our group is doing 20% less damage, but is never failing a mechanic, guess what, you would be killing everything.

So do not die, do mechanics, look at the overall logs for the night and show your amazing uptime and low death count to your leaders, they should love it (if not, they are retarded).

Last note : what I said apply specifically to this patch because of all the powercreep going on. It will maybe be much harder to do so in Shadowlands without AP, Cloak upgrades, no titanforging and all of that to increase your DPS weeks after weeks without you doing anything about it. 8.3 is the patch to relax on DPS, everyone is already doing too much. Remember that the first guilds that killed N'Zoth didn't even had a rank 15 cloak. Sure they are the best of the world and did insane DPS, but 6 months later you don't need to play at an insane level to do as much damage as they did back then.

[Tyrilion]

Look at what corruptions, essences and gear you should be using, you find that small changes make a big diff this late in the expansions. As an example adding 2x 12% expediants to my hunter meant my DPS went up by 7 k. DPS and mechanical know-how keep raiders in my team.

[Eazy]

Easy answer: go to your class discord and ask them what could you do to improve yourself.

Hard answer: check out guides, analyze top logs, grind echoes for corruptions, install a few good addons if you dont have them, learn key-binding, play as much as you can(to learn the rotation properly) etc.

[trm90]

And for real though, don't. die. to. mechanics. With current gear levels, even if your raid parses blue/green you're not super behind DPS checks. So just focus on not being the idiot who dies to Shad'har pools, or Ilgynoth beams, or Carapace tentacles etc. Watch videos beforehand to get an idea of when and where you can expect to use defensives and mobility.

[Xalvia]

Class Discords are the way to go. Regardless, your mentality alone should be enough reason to keep you around. The willingness to improve combined with the effort to do so is the most important part of mythic raiding imo.

[Bigbazz]

I don't necessarily think analysing top logs is very valuable, RNG plays the most important part in a lot of stuff. I haven't raided since Legion and I did my first heroic raid of this expansion yesterday and got a rank 1 from RNG, it was a stupid tank 30man run and zero skill was involved, I just lucked out. A lot of logs these days are people running high corruption with Twilight or Infinite Stars and hoping for RNG, and RNG with those corruptions can give you top logs in spite of playing bad. While I haven't been raiding, I'm friends with a lot of great mythic players who always had great logs and they all say the same.

Going to discords and asking people to check your logs and see where you did wrong can help a lot though, if you can figure out something that is missing then you can practice rectifying it, practicing in the playing habits to lock it into your everyday playing gradually, since any change at first will be difficult to do and especially when doing mechanics that require most of your attention. In the old days a good player had to play a perfect rotation while dealing with 1-2 obvious mechanics, these days you have lots of mechanics to deal with at any given moment with randomness at play and not many people can do that while also playing perfectly, the key is to train yourself to be able to do "good" dps mindlessly while your main focus is on just staying alive.

Not everyone is going to be amazing at the game, but most guilds prefer consistency and reliability more than dps hero star players with insane egos, like me in 2008.

[prwraith]

You really just need to know your class man, that's all there is to it. Constantly check the latest theorycrafting, constantly sim yourself, be active in the discord with other people, check the specific talents corruptions and azerite for every single fight.

Azerite, talents, and corruptions aren't one size fits all boss encounters.

Really you just need to give a damn and do your research and test it yourself. It's that easy

[Saltysquidoon]

I think here's more going on here then got explained.

How is your guild recruiting more, better players every week during maintenance mode? Is the guild looking to step it up to another level during SL? Did another guild on your realm die recently?

Also sitting for a boss to give someone else their prog or because you don't get gear is perfectly normal and doesn't mean you're being pushed out.

[Trend]

I don't necessarily think analysing top logs is very valuable, RNG plays the most important part in a lot of stuff. I haven't raided since Legion and I did my first heroic raid of this expansion yesterday and got a rank 1 from RNG, it was a stupid tank 30man run and zero skill was involved, I just lucked out. A lot of logs these days are people running high corruption with Twilight or Infinite Stars and hoping for RNG, and RNG with those corruptions can give you top logs in spite of playing bad. While I haven't been raiding, I'm friends with a lot of great mythic players who always had great logs and they all say the same.

Going to discords and asking people to check your logs and see where you did wrong can help a lot though, if you can figure out something that is missing then you can practice rectifying it, practicing in the playing habits to lock it into your everyday playing gradually, since any change at first will be difficult to do and especially when doing mechanics that require most of your attention. In the old days a good player had to play a perfect rotation while dealing with 1-2 obvious mechanics, these days you have lots of mechanics to deal with at any given moment with randomness at play and not many people can do that while also playing perfectly, the key is to train yourself to be able to do "good" dps mindlessly while your main focus is on just staying alive.

Not everyone is going to be amazing at the game, but most guilds prefer consistency and reliability more than dps hero star players with insane egos, like me in 2008.

You're confusing analyzing logs with taking a single number from the report and thinking it has value on its own. The latter is the opposite of analysis. RNG has very to do with analyzing logs.

[Bigbazz]

You're confusing analyzing logs with taking a single number from the report and thinking it has value on its own. The latter is the opposite of analysis. RNG has very to do with analyzing logs.

If you analyse a top log as a player who doesn't know why you're performing below par, all you're going to find is that you don't have infinite stars/TD equipped, or you had less procs. Because playing well and ranking well do not go hand in hand when a large portion of your dps can and often does come from pure RNG procs that you have no control over.

Having a good player analyse your logs and explain to you where you can do better is helpful, telling a player to go look at top logs to improve is not helpful.

[Trend]

If you analyse a top log as a player who doesn't know why you're performing below par, all you're going to find is that you don't have infinite stars/TD equipped, or you had less procs. Because playing well and ranking well do not go hand in hand when a large portion of your dps can and often does come from pure RNG procs that you have no control over.

Having a good player analyse your logs and explain to you where you can do better is helpful, telling a player to go look at top logs to improve is not helpful.

Most of he advice in the thread was to look at your logs or to go to class discord and ask for help to look at your logs. I can't speak for Eazy, who mentioned the idea of top logs, but generally it would be assumed that you are looking for the purpose of seeing how a top log looks different than your logs. If you do that and the only difference you can see is Infinite Stars procs that is pretty sad.

It seems your #1 thing is the axe you have to grind about how random damage is, which just isn't true unless you're talking about the very top end of the scale where you do need to have a lucky pull to get a top parse. If you can put that aside and accept that really good players will consistently get considerably better parses than the people asking these questions it will be easier for you to comprehend how looking at logs can be helpful.

[Bigbazz]

Most of he advice in the thread was to look at your logs or to go to class discord and ask for help to look at your logs. I can't speak for Eazy, who mentioned the idea of top logs, but generally it would be assumed that you are looking for the purpose of seeing how a top log looks different than your logs. If you do that and the only difference you can see is Infinite Stars procs that is pretty sad.

It seems your #1 thing is the axe you have to grind about how random damage is, which just isn't true unless you're talking about the very top end of the scale where you do need to have a lucky pull to get a top parse. If you can put that aside and accept that really good players will consistently get considerably better parses than the people asking these questions it will be easier for you to comprehend how looking at logs can be helpful.

Stop projecting. If a player doesn't know what they are doing wrong they probably don't have the experience/ability to read a log and preen valuable contextual information. You know what top logs have in common

1. Cheesing
2. Short fight duration inflating bloodlust/cooldown uptime
3. 8.3 specific corruption RNG.

Many of the top logs are not people playing really well, you can easily go on a top log and find someone who is doing a very average job but got great RNG. It's literally worse now than ever, so why would you ever tell a player who doesn't know why their dps is low to just go look at a top log? It will achieve nothing, even if the player somehow knows how to get valuable information from it, it will most often than not achieve nothing.

I've always been able to get good parses, I was always able to help people find where they were going wrong and even had a youtube channel where I went into depth on how to achieve great dps. You know what the absolute most common problem was? People generally think they are doing everything right but for some mystery their dps is low, they had no ability to see when and where they were missing the dps, they were unable to notice when their APM was unusually low, when they were delaying abilities or miss-prioritising, when their cooldowns could have been used better based on fight duration or phase timing, or stacking etc.

And more than that they were unable to look at a log and see that in a way that was clear, or in a way that made sense. If a person doesn't know what they are looking for, or why it matters then it's useless to tell them to look at top logs... Especially when it's very easy to get a top log while still playing badly, right now with corruptions more than ever..

And I like corruptions, I have no issue with them at all.


Edit : So to re-iterate..> Don't look at top logs, get someone capable to look at your logs and explain to you where you're going wrong, and how you can improve. Learning to read logs is a skill of itself, players who can generally don't make these threads.

[Doffen]

You need to know your class, sure.



But most importantly: Get the bis corruption through RNG or vendor and see yourself shoot past the others on the list.

[starbuxs]

Want to stay on the main team just keep your attendance as close to 100% as you can. The fact is people come and go. Raid leaders appreciate raiders they can count on.

[Hey There Guys its Metro]

Find a guild that cares about its membership more.
What is the definition of a "casual mythic" guild?
Why would they have 27 raiders?

My guild has raided for 12 years on a roster of 22 at a maximum.
There is no reason a guild like ours should have 5 people on the bench every night.
It promotes anxiety and disinterest.

Top guilds do this to make sure they can always field a raid team and so they can mix and match per boss, but it is a callous approach to the social formation that should be the glue for guilds on the other end of the radar.

[Trend]

So to re-iterate..> Don't look at top logs, get someone capable to look at your logs and explain to you where you're going wrong, and how you can improve. Learning to read logs is a skill of itself, players who can generally don't make these threads.

From the very beginning I said to go to the authoritative discord for your class and ask for help looking at logs. Why are you trying so hard to argue with me if you agree? LOL, people are so strange.

[Bigbazz]

From the very beginning I said to go to the authoritative discord for your class and ask for help looking at logs. Why are you trying so hard to argue with me if you agree? LOL, people are so strange.

Because you quoted me? Why are you arguing with me, if you agree.

[Osmeric]

Are you simming? Because sims can be misleading.